ST Loot 'n Leave impact on odds for remaining party members- your thoughts?

This isn't a complaint about me not getting something I wanted; in fact I did, so the question is more academic in my case, but is think it's a scenario where I can see people getting screwed over and not even realizing it.

So last night as I was running ST for maybe the fifth time since the reset (having first invested 40 minutes waiting through Withdraw spams when 23/24 people had Confirmed 5 minutes into the wait- SE you have no excuse for not addressing that by now)- a DPS got loot at the first boss and immediately ditched before the next fight. As a DPS they were instantly replaced, so no harm no foul right?

But here's something I was thinking about- each time a party member gets a loot item (and corresponding lockout for the week)- that increases the odds of remaining party members to get remaining loot should they want it. Say 5 party members only want an Oil if it drops, and 3 are casters who only want whatever Scylla casting gear they can get. First drop is Scylla caster gear, all three casters Need it, 1 gets it, that means the other two casters share a 50/50 shot at any further casting drops (vs 33% chance at the beginning). And the odds for those who want an Oil stay at 1/5 IF it drops. BUT if the person who got the loot leaves and is replaced with a new party member, depending on what they want, the ones who have been there since the beginning now face worse odds as a direct result... making it potentially a 1/6 chance to win for the Oil or 1/3 for a future Scylla gear drop in this simplified example. In other words, my opinion is each party member who gets loot and leaves, thereby letting in party members who aren't loot-locked to replace them, screws over the odds for the rest of the party. Assuming no loot gets passed on, the odds for players to get remaining items from the last boss should be as good as 1/4 or 1/5; but if everyone in the party who scores loot leaves and gets replaced, the odds could be as bad as 1/8.

That might not seem like such a big deal, until you also account for the fact that not everything everyone in the party wants is going to drop and they're probably going to have to do multiple runs to get it... and when it does drop, if it's desirable chances are decent they're going to be rolling against others so it could take many runs of after a specific thing. So your odds of getting what you want on an individual run are really low before the fact, but when what you want does drop, any players from that run who have gotten their weekly loot and dropped out have most likely impacted your odds in a significant way- or at least that's how I'm starting to perceive it. I got the UAT I wanted but if I'd been patrolled solely by the replacement for the person who left I'd have been pissed (towards the one who left, not the replacement). This also makes spamming Withdraw for a Join in Progress that much more rewarding, as compared to running the whole dungeon for a 1/8 chance at end boss loot.

What do you think?
A) This is acceptable behavior, get over it, waiting in queue for ST and changing classes a dozen times just to commence because someone only wants a Join in Progress is not that much of an inconvenience anyway.
B) People who do this are rotten and selfish and part of the reason the word 'toxic' is used so much in relation to the FFXIV ARR community.
C) Derp S-Rank Hunt Mark is up in Coerthas!!!
D) It's ok to do this and everyone should be able to bail ST after getting loot because ____.
E) I don't run ST and have a strong opinion I'd like to share anyway- please provide your answer in the designated box located on the back of this webpage after flipping it over.

Can I haz their spot? I always have the Join In Progress box checked because I just want oil.

It's a douchey thing to do, but don't think you can really punish them beyond the lockout timer

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chihaya

Can I haz their spot? I always have the Join In Progress box checked because I just want oil.

It's a douchey thing to do, but don't think you can really punish them beyond the lockout timer

---

Agreed there's not much more that can be done, other than people recognizing that these players are a varient of the Eeorzian Parasite- impossible to exterminate, but better off avoided whenever possible.

Side note- I think I should be able to post unedited videos of this kind of stuff from my PS4 without my being punished for it.

I do it, but only during the very last few hours before reset. And I only do it if my item doesn't drop. If it does, I'll stay through, but I'm not going to waste my time if there's only an hour and a half left and I'm trying to get an item from Scylla. (Note that I actually didn't get the item that week, but the next week during a regular run on Wednesday) Not saying it's right, but it's there. And I want a weekly drop, I don't want to settle for the dregs.

I think there should be an option to only queue for in progress, for those that want a partial run.

I would prefer parties members be able drop if they want out, as opposed to trying to get kicked from the run once they are done.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Llyren

I think there should be an option to only queue for in progress, for those that want a partial run.

I would prefer parties members be able drop if they want out, as opposed to trying to get kicked from the run once they are done.

---

Agreed on both counts- a join in progress only queue is me solution SE has been given repeatedly to the withdraw spam issue. And, I wouldn't say it's never valid for someone to drop a dungeon and it's worse for people to AFK waiting for a kick than to leave on their own. My thought here is more about- is it bad for the remaining players in a party for those who get loot in ST to then bail as a matter of course vs. stay, as it's something that some players will do pretty much 100% of the time when they get what they want. "I got mine, I'm outta here!" Some might say- well I'm giving others a chance to get in and get what they want by my leaving- but my perspective is that by doing that, they are also reducing the chance for the rest of the party members (the ones in it from the very beginning who didn't fish for a Join in Progress) to get what they want at the same time.

So from the perspective of someone queuing and running from the beginning, would you say- if the majority of players started bailing ST once they got their loot, even if instantly replaced by someone else- that would be a bad thing for the rest of the community based on my rationale above, or it wouldn't make a big difference? For the sake of example, say it got to where each party had 2 people Loot 'n Leave each by the end boss...

Well, ST is pretty boring so I don't blame them.

ran st 30 times this week for drg pants. ST is painful T_T

back to the OP, it really wouldnt make a difference, the odds are no different than they were the moment they started. not very many people agree with you anyways, it seems. the only time i think it shouldnt be allowed is when you are already fighting xande.

i got in when they had him down past 50%, and they made remarks about how i would get the oil. sure enough, the oil dropped. i rolled a 2. i wasnt going to sit in another queue if it was right there in front of me.does that mean i think it should happen, no.

Make the fresh DF start and the in progress window look exactly the same. You only see yourself, and you choose Commence or not. So you don't even know if you getting in progress or not. Then, change the loot system. Loot drops and rolls are the same way as they are now. Except, you don't get your item until the dungeon is cleared. That forces people to stay.

Good? Bad?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mykll

Make the fresh DF start and the in progress window look exactly the same. You only see yourself, and you choose Commence or not. So you don't even know if you getting in progress or not. Then, change the loot system. Loot drops and rolls are the same way as they are now. Except, you don't get your item until the dungeon is cleared. That forces people to stay.

Good? Bad?

---

HORRIBAD

Make in progress and fresh look same?
What if they want to start at beginning? Like want the first boss drop.

Someone wants item from X boss, didn't drop, still leave even with no loot, not going to stop people from leaving and new person joining in progress on the last boss to get oil/tomestone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chihaya

Make in progress and fresh look same?
What if they want to start at beginning? Like want the first boss drop.

---

Then that person doesn't check that little box that allows them to join in progress.

I would prefer less loot going to rot. More people looting before the end boss is a good thing in my book. Those people leaving after they have gotten their loot are a byproduct of the 1 loot a week mechanic of ST. Mainly we play within the actual as opposed to intended mechanics of the game. Change the mechanics and you change how we interact with one another.

If the armor piece was on a different restriction then the oils, sands, or unidentified tomestones you would see more folks staying until the end. I might stick around to get another tomestone or chance at a pet. As is, ST is alt armor for me.

I think the 3 group instance runs get more enjoyable as the ones that do not want to be there quit out and are replaced, as a general rule. It is however bad for the chances of loot from the end chests. I think it has minor effects on morale, more so if it was a healer or tank that drops, that is mainly offset by the spot being filled.

I think most people acknowledge that leaving because you had your loot is not a good behaviour. People do it because they think it is very unlikely they will meet again the people they are playing with or they will not remember what they did. Same applies to people that have a quest of kiling X boss that is not the last boss of a dungeon and leave when they have what they needed. Nasty. Especially if they are tanks or healers.

And yes, abandoning after winning loot in Syrcus Tower is also is detrimental to the loot chances of the rest of the party, since it's not the same to have a party member who can't loot than a new one that can. Most of us have gained a loot in a boss to see the body, UAT, Oil drop later and be unable to loot. Others had better chances to win then.

Wait so the gear that drops in your ST runs doesn't always automatically end up on the floor? WHAT SORCERY IS THIS!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DishSoap

Wait so the gear that drops in your ST runs doesn't always automatically end up on the floor? WHAT SORCERY IS THIS!

---

I only really wanted One unidentified tomestone. Oils and Sands also come from Hunts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Llyren

I think there should be an option to only queue for in progress, for those that want a partial run.

I would prefer parties members be able drop if they want out, as opposed to trying to get kicked from the run once they are done.

---

This removes anyone with that checked from the queue pool, causing longer queues for everyone. This won't every happen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mykll

Then that person doesn't check that little box that allows them to join in progress.

---

I think the number of people that would not check in if this happened would actually be few. Most would check the box just for the chance. I almost always have my JIP box checked but I don't Withdraw fish like some people. I take what I get.

Lithera, right. But I was responding to someone saying that what would happen if someone needed the first boss. Obviously don't check in progress if you really need that first boss. Or if you don't care or only need the final boss like most people check it.

The idea of making the Commence window looking exactly the same for both new and in progress runs stops that fishing. You don't know until you inside. And if you want to leave and take the hit, everyone else is already in and can proceed.

I am always glad when I see players taking items in CT2 and think "only 6/8 I have to battle against Oil if it drops". But if they leave, chance is quite high that the replacement, especially if he/she joins directly before Xande, will get the Oil. Game has its own humor, either the "always dead and no help" ppl get it or those who joined late and didn't do much in the run. No clue why and it is surely not statistically true but my own subjective observation.

I wish SE would have a detection mechanic for this kind of behaviour. Receiving loot and manully clicking on retire = banning from any dungeons rewards for several hours. I see this kind of behaviour more abusive than the players trolling parties waiting on a Roulette for "the right one" to start, abandoning all others quite quickly. Sure, sometimes there would be innocent ppl banned (sometimes sby really has to go without knowing it in advance) from loot but let's be honest, in the vast majority of cases, it would hit the right ones. The item griefers not caring about anything but their loot. The other 23 players are no place holders to get your loot more quickly, you know? They are Humans and - here is a shocking idea - may look for themselves after loot. Go figure!

i've had a few runs where someone left with their drop just before amon and we just clicked no to replacing him, 24 people is really unneccessary anyway

ofcourse if you're going without a premade group you'd have to be quick to ask the PL not to replenish ranks

There is only a 30% chance of the drop - if you really need an oil that badly, or a UAT... go clear t7 :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TomTom1968

Game has its own humor, either the "always dead and no help" ppl get it or those who joined late and didn't do much in the run. No clue why and it is surely not statistically true but my own subjective observation.

---

I did 3 ST runs in a row last week to a piece I wanted ... I got paired with the same Bard all 3 times that wouldn't move out of AOE's and was on the floor 99% of the time. All 3 runs dropped an Oil and a UAT to which they lost rolls on all of it. So, sometimes the game has its humorless days, lol.

^^ glad to hear haha

I've been going on ST for 4 weeks now. And did I get the oil? - NO!!! Because usually most of the group is only after that - about 5-6 people at least. Oli only drops to one group if at all. I don't know what is wrong with my character but my rolls don't exceed about 80. How this way I can get this smelly oli? I have enough of ST and if I don't get it this week - I'm getting rid of this stupid farmimng game because my nerws are at the end of their strength. :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gosia

I've been going on ST for 4 weeks now. And did I get the oil? - NO!!! Because usually most of the group is only after that - about 5-6 people at least. Oli only drops to one group if at all. I don't know what is wrong with my character but my rolls don't exceed about 80. How this way I can get this smelly oli? I have enough of ST and if I don't get it this week - I'm getting rid of this stupid farmimng game because my nerws are at the end of their strength. :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

---

There was 1 wk, where I did 15 ST runs in 1 day...
Odds of Oil appearing abt 3/15
Odds of UAT appearing abt 2/15
Odds of Throne Gem abt 1/??-> only saw it once

Hunting for Oil? try Hunting Elite Marks for Allied Seals.

Had a guy in my party get loot and leave after 3rd boss and his replacement came in, got locked out, and carried for fourth boss and proceeded to outroll me and win the chest piece that dropped

The kicker is he had i110 in that slot.

I'm sure that guy had the toothiest troll face on as he immediately jumped into the portal before I could rage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Poki

I'm sure that guy had the toothiest troll face on as he immediately jumped into the portal before I could rage.

---

Some are only running to get the gear for use as appearance gear. One loot a week restriction, they where likely only running for that type of piece, and are as glad to get that chest as anyone would be to win the chest they are looking for.

If I am trying to get to a fight, and I end up locked out instead, don't expect me to pass on "your" gear. That gear is up for roll to the group, even the ones that didn't get there quite in time.

Random thought, but what if they made it so you didn't get your drops until after the final boss is defeated? Then you wouldn't have people who leave midway, unless they had an emergency, and it would not effect those who do join midway through when someone does leave or gets kicked for inactivity.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Massmedia

Random thought, but what if they made it so you didn't get your drops until after the final boss is defeated? Then you wouldn't have people who leave midway, unless they had an emergency, and it would not effect those who do join midway through when someone does leave or gets kicked for inactivity.

---

Then if the group can't finish they get no loots. Not all groups finish, some implode from troll.

Also go with buddy and kick those that rolled against you earlier. Giving those with friends more loot. This tactic will matter more after they uncap ST loots, eventually anyways:D

Well the individuals would roll on it as they defeated the bosses. But the loot wouldn't be awarded except on completion. If you get kicked because you rolled against someone well you wouldn't get to reroll because it had already been won, and since the loot target is no longer within the instance *poof* *item name* can no longer be obtained.

Grieving by kicking people will always be a thing, its unfortunate but is just as much apart of any online game as loot drops. (Grieving that is) There is no perfect system is all i'm trying to say with that.

It's perfectly acceptable, deal with it. If you want to get your drop 100% run an 8 man pre-made.