Diversification

We need to add more diversification within the classes. With all the new Ilvl gear, there is pretty much a BiS and once you get BiS you are kind of stuck, so I have an idea... What if they made job specific skills that you can access once you reach a certain threshold of a secondary stat? Or they could increase potency of current skills once you meet that threshold.

That would directly go against everything SE says XIV stands for unfortunately. They want this came easily played by any gamer, even somebody picking up a game controller for the first time. So that means all DD's must be interchangeable as do all support, mage, tank jobs.

If you diversify those roles than you're going to make certain jobs more effective than others which really is the way it should be. Every job should possess a specific role and have its own strengths and weaknesses but that would promote elitism. So the jobs have to be as simple and vanilla as possible and all jobs in each category must perform exactly the same just with a different weapon in hand.

I think, regardless of the amount of options presented, there's always going to be a BiS. I suppose you could argue that by presenting different skills when certain stat criteria is met it would add a different dimension to consider when choosing gear, but there's always going to be a "best". The only real difference I could see this adding would be changing a job's skill rotation. But in the end, it's still going to be kind of similar for everyone? I don't play MNK the same way everyone else does, but its not so dissimilar I could call it different? I don't know if I explained myself too well.

That's just my opinion anyway. I could see this working, I think, but at the same time I don't? Gah, whatever. lol

It's an interesting idea, but you'll still have people crunch the numbers and produce a BiS set with the new conditions in mind.

If picking a normally sub-optimal stat unlocks a skill that now produces more overall dps, then it becomes the optimal stat and becomes BiS. You've gone in a circle.

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Originally Posted by Sonofbaldo

That would directly go against everything SE says XIV stands for unfortunately. They want this came easily played by any gamer, even somebody picking up a game controller for the first time. So that means all DD's must be interchangeable as do all support, mage, tank jobs.

If you diversify those roles than you're going to make certain jobs more effective than others which really is the way it should be. Every job should possess a specific role and have its own strengths and weaknesses but that would promote elitism. So the jobs have to be as simple and vanilla as possible and all jobs in each category must perform exactly the same just with a different weapon in hand.

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But these would be skills for the already elite/high level.

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Originally Posted by Viviza

It's an interesting idea, but you'll still have people crunch the numbers and produce a BiS set with the new conditions in mind.

If picking a normally sub-optimal stat unlocks a skill that now produces more overall dps, then it becomes the optimal stat and becomes BiS. You've gone in a circle.

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My original idea was more of a you can change your gear to help the overall party DPS or survivability. This would encourage people to accumulate more high level gear (multiple gear sets) and promote overall synergy among classes. As it stands right now, there are advantages to having certain classes in a party together (like DRG and BRD or BRD and BLM, etc) but there are several combinations that really have no synergy. They wouldn't all have to be based around this theory, but that idea could be a starting point.

To your point, there will always be a BiS, I completely agree. But the point would be a BiS for the optimal group setup.

I'm not a BLM, but I would imagine there are certain instances where a BLM would give up a damage buff cooldown for something like a move while casting cooldown.

It's kind of like the "extra" points you get for your main stats...why do they give you the option if in general you are forced into dumping all of your stats into the main character stat.

I agree with you. There needs to be more gear diversity. I liked how in XI as a DPS you had accuracy gear and then when it was time to do a weapon skill or certain abilities you macro'd to different armor pieces and/or accessories because different attributes effected those abilities.

I also liked how jobs were more diverse. I dont mean in numbers, I mean in strengths and weaknesses. Sure it promotes some elitism, I know as an XI DRG in certain areas it became much harder to get a PT but there were several different places to PT to get around it most times.

What I meant is XIV is specifically designed to avoid that. They dont want one job being more dominant than another in the same role so I dont see them adding abilities unless they raise the level cap. And if they did, every DD job would basically get the same basic ability just with a different name, icon, and animation so in the end nothing has changed.

As for the gear...the only way they can do that is if they start implementing actual real NMs (not this lame Hunt crap) or other such events that drop rare items with extra high stats and extra low drop rates. I read a comment from someone earlier in another thread who bemoaned the fact that in XI had a piece of gear that was level 20 and was still relevant even at max level. The gear they chose in question was also a rare drop off an NM that was a pain to get, it's not like it was a common piece of gear everyone in the game had just by doing a quest to advance the story. If you wanted to buy it off the market it would run you several million in cash.

XIV seems to be against that because than a person that doesnt have the patience or time to put in farming such an item will cry that they dont have one and XIV is all about making sure everything is easy enough so a 4 year old with 2 hours to play a week can get everything a 20 year old with 15 hours to play a week has is all.

Had to read through to understand what you're trying to get at but if it's more individualism then i agree. Granted through gear would be difficult. I would throw out the idea to implement skill points in certain powers much like they tried with novus weapons but to the skills themselves. I'm guessing more or less like they did with scrolls in wow. Giving each player three slots to increase individual powers like protect - giving an increase in hp if up, or regen lasting a few more ticks ot higher crit chance, giving an increased enmity bonus to provoke or even a slightly lower cd. Giving the players a chance to decide where to put the skills at.

this wouldn't so much give the players a BiS for skill sets but rather tend to the gameplay style of each individual and how they use their rotations. This possible scenario wouldn't really change a lot of class constructs but give each their own in terms of the way they like playing their class

sounds like a grindy meriting system to give people something to do while waiting for level cap to be raised (probably not for another year). i'd rather work on my pvp rank/skills, and get PvP geared up for new pvp game modes. adding more mandatory grinding in PvE sounds like a bad idea to me. if you have nothing to do then don't play the game? lots of games out there.

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Originally Posted by Sonofbaldo

I read a comment from someone earlier in another thread who bemoaned the fact that in XI had a piece of gear that was level 20 and was still relevant even at max level.

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This could happen in FFXI because you could change gear in the blink of an eye.
Were you stuck with only one headpiece, that Empress Hairpin would have accumulated dust very quickly :p

I don't think BiS is unavoidable, but it requires a lot of thinking to make abilities "incomparable".

The classes don't play the same AT ALL (try playing SCH like a WHM and see how that goes for you, ditto with BLM and SMN), they're just incredibly balanced both with each other and within the game so that no one feels penalized for picking the "bad" class at the start. This is how it should be.

SE doesn't want to add more complex gear because to do so would threaten the nearly perfect balance they have. Also, you bet people would rage if there was any indication that one class was better than another for any relevant piece of content, whether that's the latest dungeons or coil. Just look for all the past threads about how BLMs needed a buff, when their AOE damage was leagues better than everyone else. Or how people want DRGs MDEF buffed instead of just taking it into account before big hits (e.g. drop a SS or Adlo on them).

Ultimately I would like more complex gear as well, but I understand why SE is hesitant to implement it. I wouldn't be surprised if it shows up in 4.0 (or, fingers crossed, slightly earlier) once there's enough distance from when a new player would start the game to where they would encounter more complex gear.

EDIT: I really like this idea. Buffs based around preferred rotations or playstyles.

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Originally Posted by ksufoley

Had to read through to understand what you're trying to get at but if it's more individualism then i agree. Granted through gear would be difficult. I would throw out the idea to implement skill points in certain powers much like they tried with novus weapons but to the skills themselves. I'm guessing more or less like they did with scrolls in wow. Giving each player three slots to increase individual powers like protect - giving an increase in hp if up, or regen lasting a few more ticks ot higher crit chance, giving an increased enmity bonus to provoke or even a slightly lower cd. Giving the players a chance to decide where to put the skills at.

this wouldn't so much give the players a BiS for skill sets but rather tend to the gameplay style of each individual and how they use their rotations. This possible scenario wouldn't really change a lot of class constructs but give each their own in terms of the way they like playing their class

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