ZAM's interview mentioned Yoshi-P wants us to debate! Let's do it to get heard

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ZAM: What's the best way for players to get their voices heard?

Yoshida: The biggest thing is we want players to have that debate. If they have something they want to say, just get out there and start debating it. Get on the forums and tell us. In the end, the dev team makes the decision on what to do, but the stronger the voices are from the public, they'll move a topic up on our priority list.

Also, this might seem minor, but it's actually pretty big. Anyone can start a new thread. Make the subject easy to understand. If there are thousands of threads that just say “Help!” then nobody's going to look at them. But if it has specific information so we'll see it when we're going through thousands of threads, those are the ones that will catch our eye.

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So, what are you guy's thoughts on the possibility of physical level being removed?

I personally find that the feature of physical level is one that can be better implemented to effectively reward veteran players. For example, players that already had a rank 50 conjurer(level 40+) will have an easier time when playing rank1 thm.

I think it is a bad move to just blindly remove it, tweaks could be done so that attribute like str,int need not be useless without removing this feature, which is unique to FFXIV.

Yoshi and his crew have given several reasons as to why they want to nix it, such as it's a programming/balancing nightmare or something to that effect.

I agree that I wouldn't want to see it go away without being thoroughly examined as I think it's a good idea, but sometimes just 'cause something seems like an awesome idea doesn't make it practical or realistic.

Regardless though, I hope they're going through testing out all their ideas and determine which is the best to use, as opposed to haphazardly listening to feedback that might not be indicative of anything.

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Originally Posted by Poipori

So, what are you guy's thoughts on the possibility of physical level being removed?

I personally find that the feature of physical level is one that can be better implemented to effectively reward veteran players. For example, players that already had a rank 50 conjurer(level 40+) will have an easier time when playing rank1 thm.

I think it is a bad move to just blindly remove it, tweaks could be done so that attribute like str,int need not be useless without removing this feature, which is unique to FFXIV.

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This~! Exactly This~! I also thinks it's a bad idea of removing Physical level and exactly up here:

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For example, players that already had a rank 50 conjurer(level 40+) will have an easier time when playing rank1 thm.

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It currently serves very little to no purpose and no one cares what your Physical Level is. Also, I'm going to go on a whim and say that as much as you and I love going on Lv1 classes and destroying stuff - that is quite clearly not working as planned. I'm sure they forgot to lower the Rank cap on Physical Levels for the early stages of the game.

They can trash it for all I care. Make stats predefined by rank/class and use the spot for something better; like specs.

the current system it's self isn't flawed on a conceptual level, it's just specifically the attribute point system that is a mess.

I like having the job level and physical levels be seperate, maybe soem kind of system where the physical level plays a parent roll to the job level (I.E. job level can not exceed physical level?) or maybe change the "Physical level" in to "class level" where in you job level would apply to your level as a glad/lance/miner/whatever but you class level would be war/magic/hand/land and you could switch between the 4 in town/at a camp.

humm ... I'm kinda liking this idea.

so say that Physical level was done away (job system stays intact) with and replaced by a class system base off of the 4 disciplines. now each on those "classes" could be swapped out in town or camp (basically only at a "safe" zone) and what ever "class" you have active gets the EXp that would normally go into your physical level. instead of having stat points that we assign, each class will progress in a linear fashion enhancing the stats associated with that "class" (I.E. if you level your war class your STR and VIT will get better, making your war based jobs better). however when you switch classes your attributes get reset to those of your current class (going from war -> hand means you will loose the attribute bonuses from the war class but gain the bonuses of your hand class).

peoples major complain with the physical levels is that they would grind to 50 assigning stat points for their glad, but once they maxed out that build and wanted to level their magic based classes they would be gimped due to not having attribute points to assign into the magic dependent attributes. if the physical level system was expanded so that you could, in essence, level up several different "physical level" builds it would solve all that.

I don't think thats the only thing people are complaining about... You seem to miss the fact that stats DO NOT WORK.

yes I think the same.

well that too, I said that the stat system was a mess. what I'm talking about is having what would equate to 4 different physical levels that you have to level up independently, so players could have "WAR lvl 50 / mage lvl 25 / hand lvl 17 / land lvl 45" in addition to their job levels (the truly dedicated coudleven get lvl 50 in each if the put in enough work).

instead of each having it's own stat point list that the player assigns each level: each "class" would level up according to predetermined settings, so every player with a lvl 4 "war" class would have the same attribute proficiencies.

naturally pairing up you active class to you dominant job would be important ... but you could still switch to a combat job if you needed to even if your current class is from a different discipline, and switching between jobs of the same disipline as your class would wouldn't incur an penalties.

"debating" doesn't mean opening just another thread on a subject that's being debated on several threads already.

I appreciate the enthusiasm, and may even agree with your points, but "debating" all over the place, splitting and fragmenting conversations and feedback on the same topic into several different threads doesn't help the developers one bit. Quite the contrary.

This without mentioning the fact that there really is no further need to encouraging "debate" in this forum.

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Originally Posted by SogiYa

the current system it's self isn't flawed on a conceptual level, it's just specifically the attribute point system that is a mess.

I like having the job level and physical levels be seperate, maybe soem kind of system where the physical level plays a parent roll to the job level (I.E. job level can not exceed physical level?) or maybe change the "Physical level" in to "class level" where in you job level would apply to your level as a glad/lance/miner/whatever but you class level would be war/magic/hand/land and you could switch between the 4 in town/at a camp.

humm ... I'm kinda liking this idea.

so say that Physical level was done away (job system stays intact) with and replaced by a class system base off of the 4 disciplines. now each on those "classes" could be swapped out in town or camp (basically only at a "safe" zone) and what ever "class" you have active gets the EXp that would normally go into your physical level. instead of having stat points that we assign, each class will progress in a linear fashion enhancing the stats associated with that "class" (I.E. if you level your war class your STR and VIT will get better, making your war based jobs better). however when you switch classes your attributes get reset to those of your current class (going from war -> hand means you will loose the attribute bonuses from the war class but gain the bonuses of your hand class).

peoples major complain with the physical levels is that they would grind to 50 assigning stat points for their glad, but once they maxed out that build and wanted to level their magic based classes they would be gimped due to not having attribute points to assign into the magic dependent attributes. if the physical level system was expanded so that you could, in essence, level up several different "physical level" builds it would solve all that.

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This is a great idea, ie. it would make sense to be stronger in thaumaturgy if one had experience in other magical classes.
An experienced musketeer(or gunner) would be better at archer skills than a novice.

I dislike the physical level everything that tanaka said in interview before this game came out sound awesome in paper then you get to play it and you like oh wait this is not how you said it going to work out what going on here? The game give me no point in level up my class if i can wear everything at every level top of that physical level there no point for that that just other thing to worry about. In ffxi your stuff level with you and was at a good point that you never overpower everything.

In ffxiv when you first start you get your ass kick by a mole but when you get physical level high enough and level up other low level class now you can solo dodo o.o come on really? i get the point of it but still physical does not need to be in the game i agree with most of everyone here who does not want it.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

I dislike the physical level everything that tanaka said in interview before this game came out sound awesome in paper then you get to play it and you like oh wait this is not how you said it going to work out what going on here? The game give me no point in level up my class if i can wear everything at every level top of that physical level there no point for that that just other thing to worry about. In ffxi your stuff level with you and was at a good point that you never overpower everything.

In ffxiv when you first start you get your ass kick by a mole but when you get physical level high enough and level up other low level class now you can solo dodo o.o come on really? i get the point of it but still physical does not need to be in the game i agree with most of everyone here who does not want it.

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Try punctuation. It works.

There's plenty points in leveling your class, considering that it allows you to learn those skills that tend to be pretty indispensible to get around in the game.
The standpoint featuring wearing new armor as the main point of leveling is absolutely shallow, and it's a good thing that this game has done away with it.

Lack of challenging content has nothing to do with physical level. It has to do, that's it, with lack of challenging content. Mobs don't hit hard enough not because your physical level (the benefits of which are limited by hard caps, if you didn't notice) makes you invulnerable, but simply because.... mobs don't hit hard enough.
The challenge level in FFXIV is badly balanced, and that's all there's to it.

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Originally Posted by Kurokikaze

It currently serves very little to no purpose and no one cares what your Physical Level is. Also, I'm going to go on a whim and say that as much as you and I love going on Lv1 classes and destroying stuff - that is quite clearly not working as planned. I'm sure they forgot to lower the Rank cap on Physical Levels for the early stages of the game.

They can trash it for all I care. Make stats predefined by rank/class and use the spot for something better; like specs.

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I think that was done on purpose making it easier for people to level multiple classes, because of the hp and mp bonusses you would start with. I don't see it as being a problem.

My biggest issue falls later in the game when I am 40+ conj and then swapping to a melee class to rank up. Being able to convert points and save them per class change would be amazing meaning we can tune each class individually. Since all the classes from DoH/DoL, DoW/DoM use the stats to some extent, moving stats easilly would be a godsend.

I would be in favour of keeping the system and have SE tweak the formulas for how stats affect combat and actions, but also add in the ability to save stat and ability sets when a player changes classes. This would be the best thing to happen to the armoury system. For a number reasons in fact; firstly the player could be a well rounded adventurer being able to nuke/cure for a bit, find a new group then go and solo some leve's on say MRD, then go do some gathering, and then process their goods and sell them. Making this process easy and the class changes easy and seamless will make the game more playable and most importantly fun.

Secondly by allowing players to fine tune each class would resolve the need to have "ability trees" or anything like that, saw enough of that in WoW and not a fan tbh. I like picking and choosing what I need when I need it. Also there is balance to this, i find that using say WS from one class to another doesn't work so well but pulling say a dmg increase/decrease ability, or buff of some sort is not debilitating to any player and does not blur lines as much as people say it does. By keeping the physical level system tweaking each class for different roles is a god send.

Its a neat feature and just needs some more balancing imo.

I think that the game should let you have a different setup of stat points, divided by class, but based upon your general physical level.

In this way you can switch roles more faster and preserve customization !

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Originally Posted by Kurokikaze

I don't think thats the only thing people are complaining about... You seem to miss the fact that stats DO NOT WORK.

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Stats work, but most of your "power" comes from your gear. It's easy enough to test that INT improves spell damage, but it's not nearly as dramatic an effect as using a good weapon.

Get rid of it, it has more cons than pros to it.

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Originally Posted by Corrderio

Get rid of it, it has more cons than pros to it.

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Well i don't see any - to this system, i only see the "+" it has and no " - "
Like for example when you change class and your high phy from when you played different job. Now it will be easier, and you have the stat points so you dont need to get them away from beginning and if the phy would be removed who would want to start with another job a new... well i wouldn't

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Originally Posted by AmyRae

Stats work, but most of your "power" comes from your gear. It's easy enough to test that INT improves spell damage, but it's not nearly as dramatic an effect as using a good weapon.

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Gear doesn't work either... Are you even looking at the list of problems?

As I said previously, what you mentioned above is not working as intended. I see SE nerfing that sooner or later.