Alternative solution to "Unique Effects on Gear" debate - FFIX style

The biggest problem with the suggestion to add unique gear effects, FFXI-style, is that it's incompatible with the current vertical gear progression. Make the effect too powerful and people will use the lower ilv gear for far longer than it was intended. Make it too weak and people will ignore it (see current elemental resistance gear). I think there's a cool solution to this problem and it can be found right within the FF series.

http://lparchive.org/Final-Fantasy-I...PSOGL2_403.jpg

In FFIX, certain gear would have unique abilities and effects on them which would become active if you equipped them, but would be lost if you removed that piece of equipment. However, if you gained enough AP from fighting monsters, you could permanently learn that effect and equip it anytime using magic stones, which function roughly the same as cross-class ability slots in FFXIV.

I think a similar system would be very beneficial to FFXIV. Perhaps in conjunction with the first expansion and AF2 gear, if you spiritbonded certain rare equipment like AF2 or Raid gear to 100%, you could keep its unique effects. Effects could include some of the things featured on the old 1.0 AF gear like reduced Presence of Mind recast, enhanced Paeon, store TP, increased Jump damage, etc. Limit it to a certain number of equipped effects for balance.

Bring back unique gear effects but modernize them! No need for gear switching macros, just learn them permanently and expand the range of character customization at the same time!

I don't mind which kind of system they use as long as they add more depth to the gear system, i loved this system from ffix, but ppl will always find a down side to everything, so get ready to find some naysayers.

i'd have to admit i would find this interesting in terms of gear stats, but would hate having to get all the gear all over again just to get the right stats to master.

This would somewhat defeat the point though. If you can just 'learn' all the effects from your gear then it just turns into a grind to learn all the best ones from gear you otherwise wouldn't use and then go back to your normal gear with the newly learned effects slotted. It's not too dissimilar to the current materia system actually... just replace materia with these effects and spiritbonding with earning AP.

The only way a deeper stat system will work is if you have to make a tough choice between effects that aren't directly comparable (i.e. they affect things that don't have a direct statistical means of comparing them to min/max). Being able to access all of the effects defeats the point as there is no choice involved and no investment in your equipment.

Hmmmm, on one side, I would love to see this implemented just for the self progression aspect.

On the other, it could really punish new players wanting to get into raiding.

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Originally Posted by Alberel

This would somewhat defeat the point though. If you can just 'learn' all the effects from your gear then it just turns into a grind to learn all the best ones from gear you otherwise wouldn't use and then go back to your normal gear with the newly learned effects slotted.

The only way a deeper stat system will work is if you have to make a tough choice between effects that aren't directly comparable (i.e. they affect things that don't have a direct statistical means of comparing them to min/max). Being able to access all of the effects defeats the point as there is no choice involved and no investment in your equipment.

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You could solve/mitigate that by limiting the number of effects you can equip at once, as mentioned in the OP. As it stands, the principal roadblock to implementing unique effects on gear, as mentioned by Yoshi-P, is balancing the strength of the effect with increasing ilv and this proposal solves that issue.

I'd be okay with this.
It'd add a little more depth into gear choices as well as following the vertical progression thing the dev team wants.

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Originally Posted by Codek

On the other, it could really punish new players wanting to get into raiding.

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This is the mindset that the producers seem to have, and the mindset I think is holding the game back. Instead of looking at it as rewarding players for spending time playing, and money on subs, they are thinking it is punishing people that aren't even playing the game yet. They have said in the past, they want people to be able to level up, then use gear as progression, nothing else, this way once a new player hits max level, they can get to end game content really fast because each patch makes just under top tier gear extremely easy to get.

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Originally Posted by Mcshiggs

They have said in the past, they want people to be able to level up, then use gear as progression, nothing else, this way once a new player hits max level, they can get to end game content really fast because each patch makes just under top tier gear extremely easy to get.

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There are two ways around this.

1) Tune the (non-savage version) fights to not require them.

2) Introduce new tiers of effects with new gear to obsolete old effects. E.g. Store TP +30 obsoletes/replaces Store TP +20 and you can get Store TP +30 from new raid gear without getting +20 first.

On the other hand, the current relic quest makes it seem like the developers don't care how much extra work it takes for players to "catch up". Can you imagine being a fresh 50 today and discover what it takes to get a Novus from scratch? I'd tear my hair out.

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Originally Posted by axemtitanium

On the other hand, the current relic quest makes it seem like the developers don't care how much extra work it takes for players to "catch up". Can you imagine being a fresh 50 today and discover what it takes to get a Novus from scratch? I'd tear my hair out.

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There are other weapons besides the relic quest though, and they are a lot easier to get and easily comparable to them. If you were to introduce something that buffs the player outright, many players would start requiring certain things in order to join their group, why take a white mage fresh of the boat when you can get one that did the work already and has say enhanced regen or something. Individual people may not require it, but that's because individuals can think for themselves, the mob/horde/sheep are mindless and will take the easiest/fastest/least amount of work path they can get. I would love to see some type of individual progression outside of gear, but from everything the devs have said on the subject, I just don't see it happening anytime soon, if ever, because there will always be those that will refuse those that don't have it.

Can't say I like this idea since you'll have to get a specific gear (which will be difficult to get) then level it out.

I'd much rather they do it the old fashion way level up jobs (and increase lv cap) to get that skill. Better yet make gear (soldiery and dungeon) have at least 1 materia slot so that we can atleast have a degree of customization.

Better yet, make materia that increases proc rates, etc.

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Originally Posted by Codek

Hmmmm, on one side, I would love to see this implemented just for the self progression aspect.

On the other, it could really punish new players wanting to get into raiding.

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If anything, I only see it punishing old players. New players will (should be) doing dungeons and getting gear as they level classes (hopefully only green+ gear would get these bonuses), so they will be on par with what they should have gear-wise as they do this. Older players likely have at least 1 class at 50, and would have to downgrade a piece of gear in order to do this.

Why not use materia?

I agree with using materia. The system is in place expand on it. Make it better then just entree level stepping stone gear.

If they are worried about putting rare stuff on gear. Give us rare materia instead (either from breaking down rare drops or just drops themselves) and open materia up for all gear not just crafted stuff.

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Originally Posted by Renik

I don't mind which kind of system they use as long as they add more depth to the gear system, i loved this system from ffix, but ppl will always find a down side to everything, so get ready to find some naysayers.

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Since you asked so nicely, the downside is that you are most definitely going to have specific builds for endgame. That said, I wouldn't limit it to endgame gear but spread it about. Perhaps make endgame gear allow a player to gain multiple traits whereas lower level stuff would give only one per piece of gear.

Let's also keep in mind that this system was not built to continuously grow. Blue magic in FFXI is on a similar boat for the same reasons.

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Speaking for myself, I wouldn't mind seeing the point allocation system we have now being revamped to be something along these lines.

I like this system if handled well. It would give us a reason to SB non-convertable gear.

One thing I forgot to mention with my materia idea is they should be slotable based in ilvl of the gear so that you can't just slap on a bunch of materia with pumped up stats and call it a day.

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Originally Posted by Codek

Hmmmm, on one side, I would love to see this implemented just for the self progression aspect.

On the other, it could really punish new players wanting to get into raiding.

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To be fair though, quite a bit of this game's problem is you can get into anything and everything except for coil 2 off the bat..there's no "easing into" most good MMOs have or even a barrier of entry. So it would punish people who join one day then end-game raiding within 6 hours, sure..but it won't punish anyone who consistently plays the game.

The whole: "keeping the game even so people who join 6 years from now will have no problems getting caught up" is holding quite a lot back..way more so than the PS3/PS4 ever will.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Since you asked so nicely, the downside is that you are most definitely going to have specific builds for endgame.

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Kind of like now, only replace the word "build" with 'Best in slot.'

I like this idea primarily because it addresses the problem of stupidly boring gear selection in some way. I personally don't see 'people wearing lower ilvl gear for longer periods of time because the additional effects are too good' as a problem, but I spent a lot of time in FFXI where certain pieces of gear were BiS (for something!) for years at a time.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Kind of like now, only replace the word "build" with 'Best in slot.'

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Except best in slot is negotiable due to how RNG drop rates work. You can get good performance without full BiS gear because everyone with an ounce of sense knows what it takes to get that far. Stats/perks/traits are different because they're free, and so the mentality changes from "well, you got unlucky and can make do with X" to "X is there for you to use, so why the hell are you not using it?!?!?!?!?!?!?!".

The psychology aspect between the two is very different.

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Originally Posted by Nutz

I like this idea primarily because it addresses the problem of stupidly boring gear selection in some way. I personally don't see 'people wearing lower ilvl gear for longer periods of time because the additional effects are too good' as a problem, but I spent a lot of time in FFXI where certain pieces of gear were BiS (for something!) for years at a time.

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XI the gear system was one extreme and XIV has the complete opposite extreme. Even the 1.23 had a little more complex system with 2 stats weighing on each class's damage, no cap stat melds, more stats like store TP and what not, vitality being used to increase enhancing magic. They just dumbed it down way too far to make it all newbie friendly so people don't have to actually think, or even look it up on forums, to find out which gear is better. The secondary stats give a little bit of variance, but not enough to really matter. As long as they cling to their idea that the entire game remain newbie friendly, I don't see them introducing anything too complex, plus it keeps development costs lower because they don't have to design as much gear. Once a year they can toss out job specific stuff, then each patch they just have to make a fending/healing/casting/slaying set and that's it.

I believe a new system is in order.
And Yoshi did say something along the lines of, "a lot of people want these effects (I'm regard to enhanced Spirits Within damage on 1.23 Curtana) so maybe its time we start looking into them".

I love your enthusiasm. Your idea is a good start, but it needs to somehow have a barrier to entry and simply specialize, not break the classes. Example: a SMN specialized with one extra Aetherflow stack versus one with -120 seconds on Enkindle cool down.

A white mage with Enhanced Regen versus Arise (full hp Raise, zero cast time, big cost, 300 second CD or some such).

Or a Warrior specialized with either enhanced Thrill of Battle or prolonged berserk.

Make it where having both is impossible and switching between skills is on a 2 hour cool down once activated.
One will have to really think about how they party/play the class, but not lock anyone out or break any classes. Different things don't always have to have one best thing in all cases.

I remember having to switch back to terribly weak gear sometimes just to learn an ability :/

It's not terrible, but the idea needs a lot of work to become viable in XIV.

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Originally Posted by axemtitanium

...Bring back unique gear effects but modernize them! No need for gear switching macros, just learn them permanently and expand the range of character customization at the same time!

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I feel the suggestion sounds like FFXI Merit Points ... ^^;
Why not simply let players obtain those extra "effect" thru new job quests for example..?

If it's using ffix's system, then that means I'll probably get stuck using crappy gear I don't like just because I still have 42 AP to go before I can learn the skill from it and move onto my new gear that's been sitting in my inventory for a while. I can just see it now, threads filled with people's complaints of those that use crappy gear in ST to farm AP.

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Originally Posted by DefendPopPunk

If it's using ffix's system, then that means I'll probably get stuck using crappy gear I don't like just because I still have 42 AP to go before I can learn the skill from it and move onto my new gear that's been sitting in my inventory for a while. I can just see it now, threads filled with people's complaints of those that use crappy gear in ST to farm AP.

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Could be worse. The devs could make it possible to only get AP from FATEs. It'd annoy me to no end but I see it as a possibility.

Personally, I wish people would abandon this silly idea of adding more stats than are needed. If you want to give character "builds" ask for Alternate Advancement, while also keeping in mind that whatever choice you're fantasizing about has the chance of being the gimpest of the gimp to the community because they WILL pigeonhole you towards the best build, like it or not.

Why must everything be implemented in the worst way possible? Why not imagine the best possible implementation and critique the idea from that standpoint? I imagine unique effects would be attached to desirable gear, much in the same way that it was used in 1.x and FFXI, and keeping the effect beyond the lifespan of the gear would be a bonus to using it for a modest amount of time. For example, it doesn't take long to spiritbond current ilv 90 gear in CT2 or Coil 1. Obviously you'd never wear gimped gear when you're raiding Coil so you'd spend off-time to gain the "AP" to permanently learn the effect while doing other content. That said, ilv 90 gear isn't "crappy" by any stretch, especially for CT2, and is more than adequate to clear that content without gimping your party.

FFIX gameplay is boring. please don't bring any of them to XIV.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

FFIX gameplay is boring. please don't bring any of them to XIV.

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