Unspiled Rotation Umbral/Frgrant

I'm sure this is noobish, but need some help with my "rotation" when I do get to an unspoiled node to gather either HQ Umbral Rocks or Fragrant Logs. I have both Bot and Miner to the 370/332 requirements and have food to boost further. But what's the best rotation to use? I'm just smashing buttons until my GP is gone and I'm sure there is a smarter way to go about this. Assume I'm at South Shroud 2 AM slot 6 hunting for HQ Fragrant Logs - I can pass on Toil since I know it's slot 6 right? Do I then use HQ boost, Field Master to boost gathering or Harvest boost to increase yield? I seem to blow through the GP so I can't use them all. Advice / Tips on gathering HQ?

Even though I know what slot something is in, many times I'll use Toil simply because clearing the slot does not count toward your gathers on the node for Deep Vigor/Brunt Force. The only times I don't use Toil is if I'm after a one-time gather (like seeds), clusters (then I use the respective elemental ward), or mass amounts of NQ (for crafting furniture or selling). If you use Toil then Unearth II/Leaf Turn II, that will use up 600 GP; if you aren't completely unlucky, you can get 5 gathers in a row and then use Deep Vigor/Brunt Force to get the guaranteed HQ on the last one. You could always use a +gathering food if you're having trouble getting 5 in a row.

Exactly what I was looking for - thank you for the response.

The above post is bang on. At first, for me, it was very slow going. But once I got to 600 GP I was getting hq rocks/logs three times as fast. I now tell everyone who is serious about MIN/BTN to get to 600 GP ASAP!

Lots of ways to go:
Toil - 300 GP
Ageless Words - 300 GP
Blessed Harvest II - 500 GP
Blessed Harvest - 400 GP
Field Mastery II - 100 GP
Field Mastery III - 250 GP
Leaf Turn II - 300 GP
Leaf Turn - 100 GP

Toil + Field Mastery III - +50% success rate, you'll get a HQ off brunt force at the end (550 GP)
Toil + Field Mastery II + Leaf Turn - +15% success, +10% HQ, chance at a brunt force (500 GP)
Toil + Leaf Turn II - 6 swings at 31%+ HQ chance, chance at brunt force
Toil + Ageless Words - 7 swings, chance at 2 brunt force swings
Blessed Harvest + Field Mastery II + Leaf Turn - 5 swings with +15% success, +10% HQ, and double payout per swing
Blessed Harvest II + Leaf Turn - 5 swings at +10% HQ, triple payout

All are 600 GP except the first two. I use the last one to farm up umbral rocks and fragrant logs, but I'm at 95% success rate and 5% HQ to start. It averages out to about as good as any other option, with tons of NQ to turn in for cordials.

If well melded with at least 620 GP(max meld is 635 GP) you could even do using +GP HQ food (max GP food is +30 GP):

Toil(300GP) + Field Mastery (50GP) + Leaf Turn II (300GP) = 650 GP : +5% success rate; +30% HQ chance, chance at brunt force.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

Lots of good info

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Man, some people really put a lot of thought into it... Y'all are way better at math than I am. :3

Everyone is different. But for me being on my 10th hat for desynth..I go with muscle memory.

Hit Slot 6, Ageless Words(+1 Gathering), Leaf Turn II (+ 30% HQ), Hit 5 Times, IF lucky use Deep Vigor for guaranteed 100% HQ
Depending on gear can be from 31 - 38% HQ

Same applies to Miner just different skills names.

People will argue that Toil is the same as Hit Slot 6+ Ageless words, and they are correct.
Just what I use personally and not by any means the right way.

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Originally Posted by elizar2006

Everyone is different. But for me being on my 10th hat for desynth..I go with muscle memory.

Hit Slot 6, Ageless Words(+1 Gathering), Leaf Turn II (+ 30% HQ), Hit 5 Times, IF lucky use Deep Vigor for guaranteed 100% HQ
Depending on gear can be from 31 - 38% HQ

Same applies to Miner just different skills names.

People will argue that Toil is the same as Hit Slot 6+ Ageless words, and they are correct.
Just what I use personally and not by any means the right way.

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I don't think there's a right or wrong there. They both achieve the same result.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

I don't think there's a right or wrong there. They both achieve the same result.

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There IS one difference: If a MIN/BTN has only 580-599 GP, they will not be able to use Toil + 30% HQ. However, they CAN use 30% HQ, gather four times, and then use +1 Gathering. This method gives folks without fully-melded gear a shot.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

There IS one difference: If a MIN/BTN has only 580-599 GP, they will not be able to use Toil + 30% HQ. However, they CAN use 30% HQ, gather four times, and then use +1 Gathering. This method gives folks without fully-melded gear a shot.

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True true. I take the 600 GP for granted. :3

If my goal is to get as many HQ yields as possible, I use the following rotation, which requires 630+ starting GP:

1) Hit appropriate slot to reveal it
2) Use 5% gathering (50 GP) and 30% HQ boost (300 GP)
3) Harvest 4 times
4) Us +1 gather attempt ability (300 GP)
5) Harvest 1 more time
6) Use the 100% HQ ability if possible
7) Harvest the last slot

The total cost is 650 GP, but you get back 20 GP before you need to use the +1 Gather ability, so only need 630 to start. For items where I have 95% base HQ, such as Dzemael Tomatos, this is about 2.8 HQ results per 6 hits on average. It's less for 2-stars, where I have a lower gather chance and don't have guaranteed 100% HQ final hit, but still very good.

Here's some numbers, applied to previously mentioned rotations. Assuming 95% chance and 5% base HQ (if you have different bases, post them and I'll do the numbers out for them):

1. Field Mastery II + Leaf Turn II (400 GP) = average yield: 5*0.35 = 1.75 HQ
2. Toil + Field Mastery II + Leaf Turn (500 GP) = average yield: 5*0.15 + 1 = 1.75 HQ
3. Toil + Leaf Turn II = average yield: 0.95*0.35*6 + 0.65*0.95^5 = 2.498 HQ
4. Toil + Ageless Words = 7*0.95*0.05 + 0.05*0.95^5*0.95 + 0.95^5*1.9 = 1.839 HQ
5. Blessed Harvest + Field Mastery II + Leaf Turn = average yield: 0.15*5*2 = 1.5 HQ
6. Blessed Harvest II + Leaf Turn = average yield: 0.95*0.15*5*3 = 2.1375 HQ
7. Toil/Ageless Words + Field Mastery I + Leaf Turn II (650 GP) = average yield: 5*0.35 + 1 = 2.75 HQ [Rehwyn's is equivalent to this and only costs 630 GP]

Honestly, I do #3. I don't really want to mess with the near-max GP melds needed for #7.


EDIT: Here's some numbers with lower stats

With 85% base gathering chance and 1% base HQ chance:

1. Field Mastery II + Leaf Turn II (400 GP) = average yield: 5*0.31 = 1.55 HQ
2. Toil + Field Mastery II + Leaf Turn (500 GP) = average yield: 5*0.11 + 1 = 1.55 HQ
3. Toil/Ageless Words + Leaf Turn II = average yield: 0.85*0.31*6 + 0.69*0.85^5 = 1.887 HQ]
4. Toil + Ageless Words = 7*0.85*0.01 + 0.01*0.85^5*0.85 + 0.85^5*1.7 = 0.8157 HQ
5. Blessed Harvest + Field Mastery II + Leaf Turn = average yield: 0.11*5*2 = 1.1 HQ
6. Blessed Harvest II + Leaf Turn = average yield: 0.85*0.11*5*3 = 1.4025 HQ
7. Toil/Ageless Words + Field Mastery I + Leaf Turn II (650 GP) = average yield: 0.9*0.31*6 + 0.69*0.9^5 = 2.0814 HQ [Rehwyn's is NOT equivalent to this since your chance to hit is <100%]

So, regardless of stats, #2 is inferior to #1 (same chance, more GP). With <600 GP, #1 is best. With 600 GP, #3 is best. With 650 GP, #7 is best.

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Originally Posted by Nyalia

3. Toil + Leaf Turn II = average yield: (0.95*0.35*6)[1-(0.95^5)] + (1+(0.35*5))[0.95^5] = 2.579 HQ
4. Toil + Ageless Words = ... this one's complicated. Don't feel like mathing it :P

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You overestimated #3, you factored in a chance at hitting all 6 but not getting the 100% at the end.

0.95*0.35*6 + 0.65*.95^5 = 2.498
That 0.65 is when you hit the first five and go from 35% to 100% on the last one

Similar method for #4:
7*0.95*0.05 + 0.05*0.95^5*0.95 + 0.95^5*1.9 = 1.839

#1, #2, and #5 should be noted that they will give you those results when you are at 85% base rate.

Thanks for the corrections! I thought I was doing something wrong there, but couldn't figure out what...

Thanks for doing the math, I was pretty confident the method I'd been using was best for my stats, but hadn't compared it to every option.

I will say one nuance of this method is if you *do* miss a hit in the first four, you don't get 5 GP for it, which makes you unable to use Ageless Words in time to add the last hit. If you're harvesting multiple different nodes in a short time frame, this is actually fine because it saves you from having to use a Cordial or using an inferior rotation at the next node. However, if you're only after a single node during that time frame (such as working on Artisan tools), it can prevent you from getting that last sixth hit in.