CRIT vs DET (on War)

I'm doing my novus and have already capped parry, since i don't want to spend too much on IVs i decided to split det and crit, the problem is that IIs cost more than IIIs(both crit and det) so i should first cap a stat until IVs and then finish with the second. So here's the question, crit or det? I know that it's a very slight difference, but i was just curious. I already know that det is 0.3something, but crit? There must be some maths on this stuff

Do as much det as you can afford then do crit.

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

Do as much det as you can afford then do crit.

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Reasons?

10char

I personally stack Crit first. Warriors hit less often with their slow axes so you have to make the most of each swing and it also gives you a nice boost when combined with Wrath stacks. I see Paladins benefiting from DET more since it makes for heavy damage in Sword Oath.

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Originally Posted by Riyos

Reasons?

10char

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Point for point det is the best secondary. That is also the reason IVs are 400-500k each. So stack as much of the best stat as you can afford and then stack crit.

Slow hits do not make crit better.

Once I get 1500 Myth I can start working on my Novus too.

It has always annoyed me how the Bravura doesn't have accuracy on it, but I see that Warriors keep ignoring it for Novus. So what is deemed the best? Parry and Determination for Bravura Novus?

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

Once I get 1500 Myth I can start working on my Novus too.

It has always annoyed me how the Bravura doesn't have accuracy on it, but I see that Warriors keep ignoring it for Novus. So what is deemed the best? Parry and Determination for Bravura Novus?

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HA axe has parry. If you aren't MTing coil2 I'd do enough Acc to cap the content you do do. Then det, crit and SS for the rest.

Getting Accuracy on War is a pain in the butt until you start to get 2nd coil drops (HA helm, boots, pants, and choker all give a bunch of accuracy). So those WARs that are doing 2nd coil elect to put no accuracy on their weapon because their gear already supplies plenty of it.

I went with this on my Novus (link: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/MXWW) for DPS and for tanking I just swap gear around to maintain ~513 accuracy. Some accuracy is good for future-proofing and money-saving. DET is above all.

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

Point for point det is the best secondary. That is also the reason IVs are 400-500k each. So stack as much of the best stat as you can afford and then stack crit.

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To expand on this: Beause det is better point for point, you get less det on every other piece of gear to balance that out. For instance, Tier IV crit materia gives 9, while Tier IV det materia gives only 6. However, on the Novus, there is no penalty in terms of stat weight. Each point of crit only counts as 1 toward the 75 total, and so does each point of crit. So on the novus in particular, you're getting more out of DET because it's ignoring the stat weights (the penalty that normally gives you less DET).

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Originally Posted by ElricHellshadow

I personally stack Crit first. Warriors hit less often with their slow axes so you have to make the most of each swing and it also gives you a nice boost when combined with Wrath stacks. I see Paladins benefiting from DET more since it makes for heavy damage in Sword Oath.

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You have no idea how Mathematics works.

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Originally Posted by Nathan061111

You have no idea how Mathematics works.

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that's not very nice or productive. I put up massive numbers by stacking crit on content you have probably never seen.

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Originally Posted by ElricHellshadow

that's not very nice or productive. I put up massive numbers by stacking crit on content you have probably never seen.

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I'm pretty sure the det bonus is normalized for swing speed so it applies more damage to the slower swings than it does for the PLDs faster swings. So swing speed should have nothing to do with it. Same with crit. You'll hit harder when you do crit with a slower, bigger hit, but with a faster swing speed you have more opportunity to crit, so you'll get more crits and it all balances out.

And the bonus from wrath stacks does not have any effect on any additional dps provided by stacking crit. On the other hand, the wrath bonus DOES effect how much you get out of DET because extra det means those crits are stronger.

Anyhow, a better analysis is probably along the lines of det being an additive boost, while crit is a multiplicative boost. So when your base damage is low, crit provides less because the amount it is multiplying is low, while det's static boost provides more damage. And as your base gets higher, the boost from crit also gets higher, while the det bonus stays roughly the same (although it does get strong with the more crit you stack). So it would make sense that there's a break point where, after your weapon damage, DET, & STR are high enough, crit becomes the more desirable stat.

But again, that has nothing to do with swing speed.

Someone stacking DET over crit will see "more massive" numbers, not the other way around.

I think with all factor's considered WARs top end hit is Inner Beast in the 1850 range if you stack DET on T6-9 bosses. If you stacked Crit instead of DET its probably closer to 1700-1750... its sort of irrelevant to the Novus discussion as you'd need the HA axe to hit that but I'm just using it as an example. (My best has been a 1792 I think, and I could get more DET and I assume that wasn't a perfect dmg roll)

Also someone stated Novus "eliminates" the DET deficiency.... doesn't it force you to stop DET early? I haven't really done Novus yet but I thought I saw people only capping DET out at 31-33 and Crit/Parry/Acc around 40-44 so that you can't surpass the hard limits of a 110 stat weight?

31 is det max on novus.

I went with accuracy.

The most important stat in the game? Weapon damage. Nothing else holds a candle to that. Now, what happens if you do NOT have the accuracy one day because your current gear doesn't hit the cap for what you are doing? What happens when i115-120 gear comes out and maybe you start replacing gear with accuracy with stuff without accuracy. Now you have to choose between missing the accuracy cap or not using your new shiny gear (with higher str/vit on it).

Now you have your nice i110 Novus and you start missing. Messing up your rotation. Lowering your damage.

Don't be like the other people. Go accuracy.

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Originally Posted by Zdenka

Someone stacking DET over crit will see "more massive" numbers, not the other way around.

I think with all factor's considered WARs top end hit is Inner Beast in the 1850 range if you stack DET on T6-9 bosses. If you stacked Crit instead of DET its probably closer to 1700-1750... its sort of irrelevant to the Novus discussion as you'd need the HA axe to hit that but I'm just using it as an example. (My best has been a 1792 I think, and I could get more DET and I assume that wasn't a perfect dmg roll)

Also someone stated Novus "eliminates" the DET deficiency.... doesn't it force you to stop DET early? I haven't really done Novus yet but I thought I saw people only capping DET out at 31-33 and Crit/Parry/Acc around 40-44 so that you can't surpass the hard limits of a 110 stat weight?

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Because of the gear alignment the 31 det is actually still above what the traditional cap should be for its ilvl. But if that assumption is still accurate I would not know the discussion died when the reduction via weight was disproven by the fact it is 1 point for 1 stat which means no reduction so no weight.

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Originally Posted by dspguy

I went with accuracy.

The most important stat in the game? Weapon damage. Nothing else holds a candle to that. Now, what happens if you do NOT have the accuracy one day because your current gear doesn't hit the cap for what you are doing? What happens when i115-120 gear comes out and maybe you start replacing gear with accuracy with stuff without accuracy. Now you have to choose between missing the accuracy cap or not using your new shiny gear (with higher str/vit on it).

Now you have your nice i110 Novus and you start missing. Messing up your rotation. Lowering your damage.

Don't be like the other people. Go accuracy.

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I have 489 now, but i'm 103. Gonna reach 493 with sand upgrades and then i hope to drop HA belt. So i have no problems with acc

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Originally Posted by Riyos

I have 489 now, but i'm 103. Gonna reach 493 with sand upgrades and then i hope to drop HA belt. So i have no problems with acc

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If I'm not mistaken what dpsguy is trying to say is that you should keep future content in mind. Your Novus is a relic and will continue to be upgraded and carried into future content, without acc there is a chance it could become as worthless as it was originally.
All an opinion of course =3

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Originally Posted by Sakasa

Because of the gear alignment the 31 det is actually still above what the traditional cap should be for its ilvl. But if that assumption is still accurate I would not know the discussion died when the reduction via weight was disproven by the fact it is 1 point for 1 stat which means no reduction so no weight.

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31 is the exact traditional cap for that ilvl. But the fact that you're getting no stat reduction on the amount of det (or piety for casters) you put on the weapon means it's one of the most attractive stats to put on a novus if you value it.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

And the bonus from wrath stacks does not have any effect on any additional dps provided by stacking crit. On the other hand, the wrath bonus DOES effect how much you get out of DET because extra det means those crits are stronger.

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I'm assuming we're talking about damage when actively tanking since having Defiance up while not getting hit is silly. Crit from wrath stacks is pretty negligible because holding onto 5 stacks is going to be a rare occurrence.

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

I'm assuming we're talking about damage when actively tanking since having Defiance up while not getting hit is silly. Crit from wrath stacks is pretty negligible because holding onto 5 stacks is going to be a rare occurrence.

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He was talking about crit being valuable because wrath already gives us 0-10% crit. I was pointing out that the wrath stack crits do not make wearing CRIT gear any more or less valuable. And since the context of the discussion was CRIT vs. DET, I stated the effect it has on DET, regardless of how minor it may be.

But we're also continually building wrath, so wrath is probably adding 4-5% crit on average, depending on how long you hold your Wrath V stacks (when saving it for a specific move).

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

31 is the exact traditional cap for that ilvl. But the fact that you're getting no stat reduction on the amount of det (or piety for casters) you put on the weapon means it's one of the most attractive stats to put on a novus if you value it.

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To expand a bit on what Giantbane is saying, because of how powerful a secondary stat Det is SE sets Det's cap to ~66% of the other Secondaries and Savage Might materia add fewer points of Det compared to other materia of their Tier. At i110 this is 31 to the "normal" Secondary cap of 44. Novus weapons can have up to 75 secondary stat points infused into them, 1 point per materia infused no matter the materia type being infused. This makes it possible to cap 2 different secondary stats on a Novus weapon as long as one of the stats is Determination. So a 44 Parry/31 Det Bravura Novus would be stronger than a 44 Parry/31 Crit Bravura Novus.

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Originally Posted by ElricHellshadow

that's not very nice or productive. I put up massive numbers by stacking crit on content you have probably never seen.

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You still have no idea how mathematics works.