A bit of a fear on future crafting involving rapid synthesis

I've just realized the potential of Craftsmanship rating.. paired with Steady Hand II and Rapid Synthesis, it's very massive. Even with crappy +craftsmanship food, you get very massive boost with Rapid Synthesis.

I have a bit of a fear that moving forwards, this might be a thing, basically forcing you to have some chance to actually FAIL, not just getting the NQ. What do you guys think about this? And how would you act?

Scan the forum for 100% HQ rotations, and you can study those to see how people do it at end-game.

My 3-star furniture rotation is

Steady Hand
5x Piece by Piece
Ingenuity II
3x Careful Touch II

Rapid Synthesis requires Ingenuity, Piece by Piece doesn't. Rapid isn't worth using.

Well, I've almost gotten my 4th supra, I'm not having any problems with rotations at the moment but just wondering if somehow PBP will be insufficient some time down the road (maybe not in the near future) but would that be possible? Or will it always outshine rapid synth no matter what. I mean for example, low progress items which would barely budge? (if it ever happens in the future)

With my current stats, if they made a recipe so tough that Careful Touch II under Ingenuity II only gives 20 progress, I figure I can complete a recipe 100% that requires over 5,000 progress without any luck.

That's awesome, one less thing for me to worry about then! I was thinking something along the lines of a 300 progress recipe, with like 8k quality and careful II gives you like you said, 20-30 progress. Then i guess my current set would last me quite a while.

I can honestly say that I have not used Rapid Synthesis once in A Realm Reborn.

I an see a time where they may make it more a viable option. but necessary.?? I hope not

but then other than keeping my gear current I've pretty much stopped crafting.

They have a pattern of implementing things to consume other materials but not to flat out destroy them without conversion into something else. With that said I'd be shocked to see rapid become mainstream in order to HQ

Also I have never used rapid either for crafting, it has no point really atm with its poor gil return vs not using it.

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Originally Posted by Elasia

They have a pattern of implementing things to consume other materials but not to flat out destroy them without conversion into something else. With that said I'd be shocked to see rapid become mainstream in order to HQ

Also I have never used rapid either for crafting, it has no point really atm with its poor gil return vs not using it.

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Poor gil return...?

Are you confusing Quick Synthesis (make a lot of items quickly) with Rapid Synthesis (Armorer lvl 15 skill, 50% success rate, 250% synthesis progress)? This thread is about Rapid Synthesis, not Quick Synthesis. (And incidentally, Quick Synthesis is amazing if you want to make a lot of materials like ingots or lumber quickly since recipes that use those items can typically be easily HQ'd whether using NQ ingredients or not. Quick Synthesis is also great for making a ton of items to desynthesize for skillups or for Battlecraft and Fieldcraft Demimateria.)

On the topic of Rapid Synthesis, much like Rumination it makes a nice crutch for crafters early on, when they don't have a lot (or any!) crafts at level 50. I wound up saving many a synth when I underestimated how much progress Basic Synthesis would give me, and Rapid Synthesis gave me a 50/50 chance of finishing a recipe that I'd otherwise break.

Back when I was crafting Golden Gears for my Goldsmithing tool, I didn't have Weaver or Armorer leveled to 50 yet. Stacked with Steady Hand II, Rapid Synthesis did excellent work for me in covering big chunks of the high Synthesis requirement for the Golden Gears.

No, I meant what I said... anyone that does volume will get it. At that point you look for the best time vs money.. if you lose 5% of your product but double your output for instance and then bleed it off into the market with hardly any effort.

Same goes for what you later said, its a good return for people still leveling their crafts because they are handicapped and need assistance using risk to get themselves up higher vs normally what they might do if they had their full ability set.

I use rapid synth personally the failure rate being no different then hasty hand in the condition I use it in so I am never worried about finishing the hq is more of an issue for me. Piece by Piece while is powerful and independant of everything except failure is nice but piece by piece is actually not more powerful then rapid even without ingenuity atm because piece by piece actually does less each time compared to rapid which is consistent but rapid not have a 100% is what makes piece by piece more diserable for 100% no rng as you will do it with steady hand up. Piece by piece true power is as i said independant of your stats just like flawless synthesis but with our stats at the range if you hit everytime rapid will always come out ahead. A gamblers chance which is why I don't recommend it to others even though i use it.

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Originally Posted by Sakasa

Piece by Piece while is powerful and independant of everything except failure is nice but piece by piece is actually not more powerful then rapid even without ingenuity atm because piece by piece actually does less each time compared to rapid which is consistent but rapid not have a 100% is what makes piece by piece more diserable for 100% no rng as you will do it with steady hand up. Piece by piece true power is as i said independant of your stats just like flawless synthesis but with our stats at the range if you hit everytime rapid will always come out ahead.

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Piece by Piece is less powerful in the sense that it always has to be used in conjunction with another synthesis action, but it outscales all synthesis actions beyond the third. This is true regardless of your stats, the item difficulty, or the specifics of the synthesis action you are using.

1x PbP, 2x RS = 3x RS
2x PbP, 2x RS > 4x RS
3x PbP, 2x RS >= 6x RS
4x PbP, 2x RS >= 10x RS
5x PbP, 2x RS >= 15x RS

I played around with Rapid Synthesis for a bit. With Reclaim the risk is actually very small - a 2% chance of failing and losing your materials with one Rapid Synthesis and a 3.6% chance with two. Even the most risk-averse crafters (and crafters are an irrationally risk-averse lot) should be able to get on board with that. The real problem is that it's unwieldy as hell. Using Rapid Synthesis effectively requires you to:

- Have Steady Hand II up
- Have Ingenuity II up
- Have both Rapid Synthesis and Reclaim slotted as affinities
- Have 55+ CP
- NOT finish with Rapid Synthesis (else you cannot Reclaim if you fail), which probably means you need Steady Hand for your finishing synthesis since there is no way to fit RS, CSII, and Reclaim into the same ability set without handicapping yourself elsewhere.

I feel like I'm missing something here... I'll edit this if it comes to me. All said, it's a pretty big headache for one to two extra actions.

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Originally Posted by Kakure

Piece by Piece is less powerful in the sense that it always has to be used in conjunction with another synthesis action, but it outscales all synthesis actions beyond the third. This is true regardless of your stats, the item difficulty, or the specifics of the synthesis action you are using.

1x PbP, 2x RS = 3x RS
2x PbP, 2x RS > 4x RS
3x PbP, 2x RS >= 6x RS
4x PbP, 2x RS >= 10x RS
5x PbP, 2x RS >= 15x RS

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To be honest I didn't think of it in using more PbP then 2 so I apologize and must reanalysis the situation because if you are using 5 PbP then the progress must be massive much more then anything I know in the game atm. But that would be at that range where ingenuity II would also give a massive benefit not seen in prior crafts as well so the sequence would be impractical but it is food for thought if they bring in elemental affinity i95 > i115 recipes (haven't done or seen the primal weapons crafted, do those have elemental affinity during the craft?)

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Originally Posted by Sakasa

To be honest I didn't think of it in using more PbP then 2 so I apologize and must reanalysis the situation because if you are using 5 PbP then the progress must be massive much more then anything I know in the game atm. But that would be at that range where ingenuity II would also give a massive benefit not seen in prior crafts as well so the sequence would be impractical but it is food for thought if they bring in elemental affinity i95 > i115 recipes (haven't done or seen the primal weapons crafted, do those have elemental affinity during the craft?)

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Ingenuity II is not going to give you a massive boost, and if it does, all other synthesis get that same massive boost.

Rapid Synthesis is and will always remain a pointless gamble for top tier recipes, because your choices are:
-Use another Ingenuity II at the start of the recipe in order to make sure you don't fail.
-Use it at the end and risk failure.
-Save CP/waste CP on reclaim.

RS does have it's uses, but it's very limited.

i almost fked up my i90 choker synth and had to use 1 RS to bail me out or else i wouldve failed the synth :P. Its situations like that i love RS for :)

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

Ingenuity II is not going to give you a massive boost, and if it does, all other synthesis get that same massive boost.

Rapid Synthesis is and will always remain a pointless gamble for top tier recipes, because your choices are:
-Use another Ingenuity II at the start of the recipe in order to make sure you don't fail.
-Use it at the end and risk failure.
-Save CP/waste CP on reclaim.

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Wasn't specifically saying rapid at that point was actually talking more about careful synthesis since the overall waste of CP and need of steady hand for the PbP and RS but ingenuity reduction of level is more powerful the higher the level as the stat requirement for each tier compared to its actual difficulty in gains in progress but because ingenuity only effects skills that are stat based the gain is dependant upon gear and melds. So at a point where 4 or 5 PbP are used it would be better spent else where.

Ing II on high level crafts is far less useful than it was on 1/2 star crafts.

PbP is far superior for 3 star crafts.

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Originally Posted by Sakasa

Wasn't specifically saying rapid at that point was actually talking more about careful synthesis since the overall waste of CP and need of steady hand for the PbP and RS but ingenuity reduction of level is more powerful the higher the level as the stat requirement for each tier compared to its actual difficulty in gains in progress but because ingenuity only effects skills that are stat based the gain is dependant upon gear and melds. So at a point where 4 or 5 PbP are used it would be better spent else where.

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3 Star furniture, 1424 difficulty.
CS2 does around 71 under ingenuity II, so rapid would do around 150.
How can you do this in under 10 moves without PbP, even without 100% success rate?
SH > 5xPbP > IngII > 3xCSII

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

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I am sorry I was looking at i90 gear not furniture but sure i will take that. At the third PBP your gain is 141, then 94, then 62 + 71 x3 the gain drop. So Rapid synthesis under the effect of ingII takes just as many moves but you have to reapply Ing II and SH which artifically boosts up the attempt to 12 if you skipped the concern about success rate increase with SH2 that puts the total steps to 10 but in a real world situation you would be looking at 12 on your best day.


Rapid synthesis actually becomes better then PBP after the second so the most optimal is pbp x2 and rapid x4 if your going by non real world progress gain that also saves you 45 cp which will be used for a second steady hand so your overall gain is 25 saved cp.

But all this is a moot point because your whole attack forces me to defend rapid which as I said in my first post before I do not recommend rapid to anyone. My quip was we have not hit the vertical climb (Stats on gear) or a vertical target (Progress) where PBP will get worse again like it was prior to 2 star or the point where it will be required such as our gear is now but difficulty jumps up to 3500. Such a gap was seen from Cobalt haubergeon to Darksteel Haubergeon at launch before people got their hands on the crafter "af" sets, offhand, and quest tool but even then PBP was not used. We have just hit its usefulness, which is why I made the quip not because rapid is superior.

PbP wasn't used back then because the minimum requirements to attempt the recipe and its ingredients left you with 3 CSII or 2 Standard Synthesis under Ingenuity II.

Best case with RS in any possible recipe is using 3 RS instead of 2 PbP and 3 CSII.
-Net gain: 20 progress, 48 CP
-Net loss: almost a 50% chance you fail, weaker BB due to no Innovation and 1 less shot at favorable condition

Other best case is 2 RS instead of 1 PbP and 3 CSII.
-Net gain: 20 progress, 33 CP
-Net loss: 36% chance of fail, weaker BB due to no Innovation

*If you want to fit BB and 2 RS under the same SHII and INGII, there's no room to also cram in GS and Innovation. Innovation is equal to 2½ more steps of Inner Quiet.