Supra worth it?

Hi guys, I am a max melded crafter with all artisan tools except cul,crp, and gsm. I have the mats just lazy. I could get a supra tool for a job would cost about 5 million. Does anyone see any point in getting this? I never need Gil can make 1-3 mil a day. I just don't understand why these tools exist. I can see the worth if not max melded. Any thoughts.

A big fat 'Nope' from me.

No current recipe needs these Tools. You should be able to reliably HQ three star with Artisan and max melds. Right now they're a superfluous boost in a slot that didn't need it; the new synths all use the previous cap of 391/374. The only argument I think could justify the expenditure is that the price of the Demimateria will all but certainly be a lot higher when they add new recipe caps that do require these tools, as everyone who doesn't have Desynthesis prepared by then will need to buy their Demimaterias; this is likely to be a large percentage of crafters and gatherers.

TL;DR: No. :)

I was debating if the cost of Demi would go up. That is a good point I never thought about.

No.. its not. All you get is a hue change from the original i55 tool and stats that don't really do much extra. Even a crafting masochist like myself stopped at one and left the others till the system is changed.

Yes Elasia, I am crafting obsessed as well and I think I am going to pass for now on the new tools.

http://i.imgur.com/rmbt9dX.jpg

These are my Supra Red Carpets. I really love them. I got them for this past Christmas as a gift. They-


...what? Oh I thought we were talking about the shoe brand.

There's a rumor about a relic chain for DoL/DoH building on the supra. If it's false, then it's way too much effort for way too little. 10 craftsmanship and 5 control is a joke.

From what I understand they will be enhancing those tools periodically (likely with equally ridiculous costs) such that it might eventually be necessary/ worth it. Of course, that's assuming we don't get any more tools from other sources. With the current 5 ilvl difference it really doesn't matter. If it gets to 10 or 15 and there aren't other options then the situation will likely change. It's hard to say if it's worth upgrading right now even if you assume you will want the upgrade eventually. Fieldcraft demimateria III will likely not drop in price, but might go up. Mastercraft demimateria is probably not going to see any sort of drastic resurgence in price, or at least I don't expect it to (for whatever my expectation is worth).

Can you please share your source that Supra will be enhanced? I have heard no mention of this before.

Well, in any case, it prepares you for the next content update where you will most likley need that small boost and also possibly enhance the tools further anyway

As for me, im slowly gathering all the Fieldcrafts and Mastercrafts for all 8 of them - Then I'll glamour all of them to Luminaries (missing a few luminaries still though~)

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Originally Posted by Fusaa

I have the mats just lazy. I could get a supra tool for a job would cost about 5 million. Does anyone see any point in getting this? I never need Gil can make 1-3 mil a day.... Any thoughts.

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So, let me ask you a question to answer your questions:

If you can craft and get the materias yourself, but you instead just buy your way to iL75 tools, what is the difference with this vs you paying some FC to carry you thru all the nEX trials and Coils?

For me, personally I rather do it myself just because I want to play the game.

While it's not necessary, it's something to do for players who want to aim for the best tools or sets of equips. How they get there is up to them. It technically is the best crafting tool out atm, and that is enough for some people to go after it, even if they have the Artisan/Forager series.

Imo Supra = Relic Novus questline. You are somewhat gated by time which is what SE intended. We will all evenyually need these tools to progress in later patches. Some of us will 'speedrun' ahead, and some will pass until a later date hoping that the barrier of entry will be easier/cheaper down the line.

Tldr: U can only run from it (Supra) for so long.

I answered on the first page with my thoughts on Supra. Now I would like to share my actual experimentation, since I decided to get one.

When I got the new accessories it was because I experimented with simulators and found the additional CP allowed me to alter two of my RNG Free 100% rotations (40 Durability and Tools) and remove the reliance upon food. This was enough to convince me that an otherwise pointless investment was worthwhile. And it was. I can now synth everything except three stars with a 100% success rate every synth with no food. Huge convenience, as it means I can craft as and when time permits, rather than saving a batch for a thirty minute free period to conserve food.

Since getting a Chantico Supra, I've experimented extensively with three star synthesis. My ultimate goal is to see if having a Supra means I can create an RNG Free 100% rotation similar to the other three I came up with for various crafting scenarios. After many hours of testing, my conclusion is it still can't be done. The closest I can get is 4740 of 4980 quality (with HQ materials) - or 86%. This isn't that bad a rate and indeed, for the convenience of not having to focus on your synths and not relying on RNG, reasonable odds. However, for anything that matters, you'd be better off sticking with one of the popular Hasty Touch rotations or manually crafting. Nobody who has extensive crafting experience and mechanic understanding struggles to reach 100% unless RNG is in a particularly brutal mood anyway.

This leads me to conclude that no, Supra is not worth it - not just hypothetically either, as my assessment before was opinion, but technically too.

Having Supra does not provide any tangible return for its high cost. It may provide a small boost for those struggling with regular HQs but this is as much down to personal experience and understanding of synthesis mechanics than lack of stats since HQing three star should be relatively easy for anybody with full melds and an Artisan. A bigger boost would come from the accessories for a fraction of the cost as the new accessories provide an additional 7 CP - a total that I have previously stated allowed me to modify two of my rotations to remove their reliance on food. This is a benefit the Supra's lack of CP does not provide.

Whilst it's easy to completely dismiss Supra based on my experiments, I should comment on one beneficial side to having it. The additional 10 Craftsmanship from the Supra means that only two of the Careful Synthesis II in a three star synthesis needs Ingenuity II active. This frees up a small amount of leeway in a rotation, as you can use Piece by Piece twice followed by a Careful Synthesis II at any point during the synth where another buff isn't active and won't be wasted, before finishing with the two Ingenuity II powered Careful Synths. This doesn't change an awful lot because it still uses the same amount of durability.

The bottom line of Supra Tools is they're currently bragging rights and nothing more. Until such time as new synthesis tiers are released they serve zero purpose and nobody should need them to reliably HQ three star synthesis. As I said previously any issue with this probably lies in a lack of experience with crafting mechanics rather than a lack of gear. Yes, some may consider them "Crafting Relics", but I am not sold. I believe they are nothing more than rushed in Tools to satisfy the continuous requests for more Crafting gear. They provide no increase to previous crafting tiers, they are not required to HQ three stars and they don't provide any game changing benefits to previous synthesis mechanics. The word to describe them is superfluous or placebo. I'm torn on which to go with.

TL;DR: Now that I have experimented with a Supra of my own, they are definitely not worth it. Hoard your Demimateria for a future patch with new synthesis tiers, as their price will escalate due to a sudden influx of interest.

my goal with supra,... from a mostly non active crafter.

I levelled my gsm de-synth skill, currently 82.5, not in a hurry to buy a bunch of i70 or i90 gear to power lvl it.

when I have spare time I craft some mats for artisans glasses, then trade for a chance at fieldcraft demi 3 and master demi.
I also de-synth darklight and the new i80 gear from dungeons as and when i get them.

This is not a fast process and that's suits me fine as these supra tools are currently mostly useless... will I get all of them.? yes for sure even though I craft so little stuff now in comparison to what I was doing.

the requirements to get these tools are time consuming unless you spend millions of gil on the mats for these tools. yes I could buy them and I wont unless they get down to the 200k area (currently 500k on behemoth). will I cash in on the occasional sale when the price is high, for sure.

but until there needed to craft stuff ill take the nice slow approach and replace each one as and when I get the required amount.

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Originally Posted by SeleneVenizelos

I experimented with simulators

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May I ask which one are you using?

Other then the JP one, that is limited at 2-star items, I haven't found one the aren't bugged.

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Originally Posted by AttacKat

May I ask which one are you using?

Other then the JP one, that is limited at 2-star items, I haven't found one the aren't bugged.

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http://ffxiv.lokyst.net/

It's been 100% accurate for me with three stars, definitely recommend it!

LOL. I tried it when it was first announced a few months back, and didn't like it.

I guess I need to spend more time and look at it in depth to understand it better.

Thanks.

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Originally Posted by AttacKat

So, let me ask you a question to answer your questions:

If you can craft and get the materias yourself, but you instead just buy your way to iL75 tools, what is the difference with this vs you paying some FC to carry you thru all the nEX trials and Coils?

For me, personally I rather do it myself just because I want to play the game.

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I have the ability to desynth the items myself but I find, that I make money faster crafting other things. I play casual and time is of the essence. It isn't like beating a boss desynthing is relatively easy. I am a crafter so time is money.

There will likely be a lull in between now and the patch preview where these tools become important (upgraded again or whatever). That low point is the time to buy up the demimateria before it skyrockets.

It all depends on how you see it.

If you are just going to be looking at 2.2-2.3, Supra definitely doesn't make any sense.

But if you are setting sight on 2.4 and beyond, that's another story.

Those who are working on getting all supras or at least the few important, gil making jobs are all preparing for patch 2.4. New crafting recipes, expected to be ilvl 110 will be tougher to make than current 3 stars. And remember when 3 stars first came, people aren't 100% sure how to make them with a comfortable success rate of HQ. A new i70 off-hand, combined with Supra's stats, might be needed for 4 star crafting.

And if you do not have your preparations done before hand, you would be left behind the most profitable period of the game.

I can't even get the foragers ones cost so much money

I try to get all of my DOH's the 70 tool. I doubt I will have a single 75 tool by the time 2.4 hits us. I also wonder if they will release new tools when they introduce new receipies. But it might be that the actual 75 tools will be the must have tools for 2.4 and 2.5. Future will tell. I only know that it will take a lot of time and GIL to get all DOL their 75 tool. I hope they ease the amount of GC items (hardened sap, Coke etc.) you need for desynthing Level 70 items. This would make your way to desynth 3 star crafts a lot easier. Crafting them is also expensive (Myth mats) but at least you get the Demimateria you are after if you desynth these items. The rest before is just trying to get there and destroying hundreds of items.

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Originally Posted by TomTom1968

I hope they ease the amount of GC items (hardened sap, Coke etc.) you need for desynthing Level 70 items.

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Not much help, but if you desyn the i70 pvp gear you have a chance of getting completed myth items such as darksteel ingot with armorer. I assume the same goes for gsm on accessories, and leatherwork and weaver on armors. But that still leaves a problem with the need of ruby, or glazenuts for certain crafts look for field 3s and master.

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Originally Posted by AttacKat

So, let me ask you a question to answer your questions:

If you can craft and get the materias yourself, but you instead just buy your way to iL75 tools, what is the difference with this vs you paying some FC to carry you thru all the nEX trials and Coils?

For me, personally I rather do it myself just because I want to play the game.

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So let me ask you this, does your post have anything at all to do with what he asked? See I like to post on things that are relevant to what the topic is. That's just me though, I guess you can keep thinking you are Elite on a game that has a low skill floor, and cap. Just saying..

Having done a lot of 3 star crafts. I don't see any use for the small stat increases. On the flip side my gear has max stats and that was very expensive. The new tools could help offset some of the expesive overmelds on crafting gear. So if you don't spend much on the gear, then I could see a use for the tool. 2.4 is a ways off. Raise your desynth level and make the materia yourself. It goes slow but it costs much less than buying now. Do the daily turn ins and fates for GC seals, get the mats you need to desynth the field 3 for free. Take a long term look at this and it isn't very expensive. Only a small grind for the seals.

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Originally Posted by PandemoniumFF11

So let me ask you this, does your post have anything at all to do with what he asked? See I like to post on things that are relevant to what the topic is. That's just me though, I guess you can keep thinking you are Elite on a game that has a low skill floor, and cap. Just saying..

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Sure it does, especially to the OP.

Many people forgot, or do not know if they are new to this game and doesn't know YoshiP and his approach.

Whenever something new is introduced, there are always tons of players rushing to get it as if if they do not have it they cannot play the game. But the truth is, YoshiP does this because he wants to give the hardcore players enough content and that they do not finish it within 1-2 days (even tho some still do), and the rest of us (hint: me is far from elite) can take our time and play catch up later.

We have many examples of this with all the DoW/M iL70 gears, iL90 gears, and now iL110 gears with lockouts, echo buffs, currently caps are just few of the approaches YoshiP employees to do this. When comes time for the next iLvl increase, he eases up on the methods to obtain the previous iLvl items. Hunts is a perfect example ATM.

The iL75 tool is no different. The grind will ease up a few patches down the road.

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Originally Posted by AttacKat

Sure it does, especially to the OP.
Many people forgot, or do not know if they are new to this game and doesn't know YoshiP and his approach.

Whenever something new is introduced, there are always tons of players rushing to get it as if if they do not have it they cannot play the game. But the truth is, YoshiP does this because he wants to give the hardcore players enough content and that they do not finish it within 1-2 days (even tho some still do), and the rest of us (hint: me is far from elite) can take our time and play catch up later.

We have many examples of this with all the DoW/M iL70 gears, iL90 gears, and now iL110 gears with lockouts, echo buffs, currently caps are just few of the approaches YoshiP employees to do this. When comes time for the next iLvl increase, he eases up on the methods to obtain the previous iLvl items. Hunts is a perfect example ATM.

The iL75 tool is no different. The grind will ease up a few patches down the road.

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Exactly... which is actually one of the biggest reasons getting the tools now is so utterly pointless when the next patch will make them far cheaper to obtain / actually needed possibly. The method is the same but is still flawed for this particular style of gaming. Its more akin to just having to use a endgame mob cockblock that is near unkillable due to lack of content.