Please look forward to it

I'm looking forward to it ^^

Where are you going to have those polls on? And what if only the most vocal minority votes and the actual happy players tend to not bother, what then?

Everyone knows that the majority of the people on here arent particularly great. There's a lot of trolls and a lot of people just saying or doing stuff to hurt others. And those happen to be the ones who are the most vocal and visit the boards the most. I certainly dont want to see any of their ideas put in, do you?

You're never going to please everyone. I say just let the developers do whatever they want and make sure they COMPLETELY IGNORE EVERYTHING WE SUGGEST, and if they do that we might have a pleasant game we can all still play.

They have said they're working on a roadmap to show us soon. Whatever we can glean from that roadmap we can give feedback on.

We've received some content that has been based on user feedback with largely negative results... If anything else is going to be implemented based on user feedback they should at least listen to the side that point out what the negative effects of such content would be and not only to the proponents...
Hunts would be the perfect example of implementing something purely based on what the proponents ask for without any regards to flaws pointed out by the opponents.

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Originally Posted by Surian

I say just let the developers do whatever they want and make sure they COMPLETELY IGNORE EVERYTHING WE SUGGEST, and if they do that we might have a pleasant game we can all still play.

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Not if recent updates are anything to go by we won't. Hunts are a broken mess, artifact dyeing turned into an expensive chore, and they keep nerfing dungeon rewards whenever they release a new set of dungeons in the name of 'balance'.

They may have a roadmap, but it's got more breaks and potholes than a disaster movie.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

Not if recent updates are anything to go by we won't. Hunts are a broken mess, artifact dyeing turned into an expensive chore, and they keep nerfing dungeon rewards whenever they release a new set of dungeons in the name of 'balance'.

They may have a roadmap, but it's got more breaks and potholes than a disaster movie.

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These are all items the playerbase WHINED and COMPLAINED about wanting so this is EXACTLY what Surian is getting at. If they stick to their guns and not try to cater to the complainers they won't get into messes like Hunts.

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Originally Posted by Lithera

These are all items the playerbase WHINED and COMPLAINED about wanting so this is EXACTLY what Surian is getting at. If they stick to their guns and not try to cater to the complainers they won't get into messes like Hunts.

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Funny, i don't seem to recall players specifically asking for open world NMs to be added in the absolute worst way possible with a rewards system that essentially invalidates almost all other content in the game.

I also don't recall any player or forum post whining or asking about a vanity/dye system that was needlessly complicated and expensive for what should have been a relatively easy addition.

However if you have a single post you could quote or link to stating exactly what you said I'd be very interested in reading it.

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Originally Posted by Ryel

Funny, i don't seem to recall players specifically asking for open world NMs to be added in the absolute worst way possible with a rewards system that essentially invalidates almost all other content in the game.

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Open world - check
Not FATE - check
Notorious Monsters - check
Valueable rewards - check
Uncapped - check
Grindable - check
Exclusive claim - not check

As for expensive vanity, blame that on crafters whining that crafting was pointless with nothing crafted being valuable.

In short, be careful what you ask for.

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

Open world - check
Not FATE - check
Notorious Monsters - check
Valueable rewards - check
Uncapped - check
Grindable - check
Exclusive claim - not check

As for expensive vanity, blame that on crafters whining that crafting was pointless with nothing crafted being valuable.

In short, be careful what you ask for.

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This! Couldn't have said it better myself!

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

Snip

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This is implying that the current implementation of Hunts is the only possible way that they could ever have put something like this in the game that meets those requirements.

MMO history as a whole has proven that isn't the case as there are systems that have and do work in other games.

ZNMs say hi.

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Originally Posted by Ryel

This is implying that the current implementation of Hunts is the only possible way that they could ever have put something like this in the game that meets those requirements.

MMO history as a whole has proven that isn't the case as there are systems that have and do work in other games.

ZNMs say hi.

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Forgot to add
"Implement ASAP, as we want it now now now".

I seem to recall SE saying that hunts were not even talked about internally until after 2.2.
It's obvious that they're leveraging already existing underlying mechanics in order to bring it as fast as they did.

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

Forgot to add
"Implement ASAP, as we want it now now now".

I seem to recall SE saying that hunts were not even talked about internally until after 2.2.
It's obvious that they're leveraging already existing underlying mechanics in order to bring it as fast as they did.

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It's as if systems like leves and treasure/alexandrite maps didn't already exist as a template for open world content that wouldn't have the issues that Hunts currently do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

Open world - check
Not FATE - check
Notorious Monsters - check
Valueable rewards - check
Uncapped - check
Grindable - check
Exclusive claim - not check

As for expensive vanity, blame that on crafters whining that crafting was pointless with nothing crafted being valuable.

In short, be careful what you ask for.

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+10000!! I don't blame SE for this at all I blame the players! On everything from the Relic grind after Zenith to how ridiculous it is to obtain a piece of vanity to the Hunts! Crafters and ex-FFXI players whined so much, what we have now is a product of their complaints!

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Originally Posted by Ryel

It's as if systems like leves and treasure/alexandrite maps didn't already exist as a template for open world content that wouldn't have the issues that Hunts currently do.

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Leves and Treasure maps both would have been locked to party only, which would have gone against the wishes of plenty of people.

I'm not happy about how it was implemented either. I had hoped they would have had it tiered with pop items myself (along the lines of the Jailer stuff in FFXI) and ignored some of what was being asked for.
I'm just saying to be more careful with what players ask for. If you're going to ask for something, be more specific as well as point out what is NOT being asked for.

Sadly, now when I see them say, "Please look forward to it", I actually start worrying.

If any game needed a test server, this is it. Rushing out content to appease the masses isnt going to solve anything and it risks seriously breaking the game overall... aka hunts.

And when they mention adding new things like outfits and costume/RP clothing, I cant even get excited about that, because it always ends up being either a super rare drop or a 3 star item that sells for millions on the MB, putting it well out of the reach of a lot of the people who'd want it. I'm sorry but there's no justification they can make as to why things like a Spring Dress are a 3 Star item that will make any sort of logical sense. Its not even raid gear ffs. The new Coeurl bathing suits? Super, ultra rare.

Games like Rift & TERA make things like that common, and guess what.... it didnt break the game. O.o What a concept.

So yeah, to me, every patch now is a moment to cringe and expect the worst.

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

Leves and Treasure maps both would have been locked to party only, which would have gone against the wishes of plenty of people.

I'm not happy about how it was implemented either. I had hoped they would have had it tiered with pop items myself (along the lines of the Jailer stuff in FFXI) and ignored some of what was being asked for.
I'm just saying to be more careful with what players ask for. If you're going to ask for something, be more specific as well as point out what is NOT being asked for.

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I agree but at the same time I believe there is still a middle ground of open world non-poppable NMs that can be reached that aren't on the level of old style Ground Kings ala FFXI or the Hunts we have currently.

while pop based systems would have been preferred for the level of rewards that hunts offer (your jailer comparison fits here) the game was starving for something open world that wasn't based around Instances/Duty Finder, they just tipped it a bit too far in one direction.

My initial point was that just because the players desire something doesn't inherently make them wrong or "whining" as it was previously put, it's the goal/job of the developers to take the feedback from the players and find ways to make it work.

These things are often hit or miss, that's what updates are for.

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Originally Posted by Teirshin

Sadly, now when I see them say, "Please look forward to it", I actually start worrying.

If any game needed a test server, this is it. Rushing out content to appease the masses isnt going to solve anything and it risks seriously breaking the game overall... aka hunts.

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I really doubt a test server would have exposed any problems with hunts.
For one, there'd be no reason to zerg the hunts on a test server, so it would have been more about testing and seeing that the elite marks appear as they should under normal circumstances, and such.

Maybe someone would have pointed out the rewards as being too high, if the rewards would even be listed on a test server...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

I really doubt a test server would have exposed any problems with hunts.
For one, there'd be no reason to zerg the hunts on a test server, so it would have been more about testing and seeing that the elite marks appear as they should under normal circumstances, and such.

Maybe someone would have pointed out the rewards as being too high, if the rewards would even be listed on a test server...

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Rift used test servers to great success. Plenty of people played there primarily, raided and dominated in the constantly changing content. It gave some hard core players even more challenge because they were always having to adapt to mechanic changes and such. Its certainly not for everyone though.

Players have the right to plead for what they want in an mmo, but blaming the playerbase for a developer's actions is like blaming games like gta for school shootings. There's various ways they could have worked this system out. In all honesty, the hunt system isn't even that bad; it's just that the rewards were too powerful. They could have put out a set of i100 hunt gear with different itemization that would help more in open world combat, but they chose the path of least resistance.

Lazy design. It's at the heart of almost every bad design decision in this game. From the post zenith relic to hunts, the idea was to use as few resources as possible to stretch content, since the playerbase was screaming that there was nothing to do in 2.1. Raiders would come online mondays, finish turns 1-5 and most of the raid team would log till next monday.

The truth is, there is still a severe lack of endgame content. It's just masked better now because so much is locked behind grinds(post zenith is nothing but a grind, hunt is nothing but a grind).

Currently endgame comprises of 2 lfr style raids(towers) 2 short endgame raids (great boss fights, but the raids themselves are lackluster), 6 ex primal fights, 11 "hard mode" dungeons, and 6 hard mode primals. For a game that's been out for nearly a year, that's honestly not alot of content.

I just can't understand why we haven't gotten a sprawling, epic experience from raids that have 10-15 bosses. That almost any group can kill the first 1-2, but only the best of the best kill the end boss. We're missing that greatly, and if we could only get one of those a year, it would have people hooked.

But that takes effort, money, and a love for your product. All of which Square-enix seems to be unwilling to give.

While there are some good ideas on the forum, the large majority is just whining. People rarely come on when they are happy with a change. Even if 90% of a patch is content they like, they still come on raging about whatever they don't like. I am glad they don't listen to most of the complaints on here. Every single patch has been received by endless threads about how the game is broken now. Remember when lockouts were going to end FFXIV, or atmas?

The post-patch zerg hate fest every few months:

/shout forums spotted! <pos> pulling in 2 mins!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Teirshin

Sadly, now when I see them say, "Please look forward to it", I actually start worrying.

........

So yeah, to me, every patch now is a moment to cringe and expect the worst.

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Wow, i also get the same feelings. I can't get excited anymore when they announce new content/items/systems because its garunteed to be headache inducing or just more trouble than the reward is worth.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Teirshin

And when they mention adding new things like outfits and costume/RP clothing, I cant even get excited about that, because it always ends up being either a super rare drop or a 3 star item that sells for millions on the MB, putting it well out of the reach of a lot of the people who'd want it. I'm sorry but there's no justification they can make as to why things like a Spring Dress are a 3 Star item that will make any sort of logical sense. Its not even raid gear ffs. The new Coeurl bathing suits? Super, ultra rare.

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Didn't you know? With everyone adventuring, just taking a vacation and getting casual clothing is a luxury, thus not everyone in Eozrea can afford it. Why do you think all NPCs wear tattered or worn out clothing whereas a select few in Costa Del Sol can afford to get skimpier clothing?

/logic

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

As for expensive vanity, blame that on crafters whining that crafting was pointless with nothing crafted being valuable.

In short, be careful what you ask for.

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WHOA whoa careful with that hot potato because that does not solve the problem the only thing that does if give more value to the myth items. Not so much to crafting as the investment to make those items is massive which is why the expense comes in. If the parts were normal everyday items and you just need a high craftmanship to make it you wouldn't see the absorbant prices as most crafters do not directly put the price of time spend getting to level placed onto buys after the first two weeks or so.

Case in point wolfram squares are useless out side of augment pieces, can't desynth them can't be used for anything else. So not its just one more road that devs can take to get to the next crafted item.