Two handed animations for two handed weapons. Possible?

It always bugged me that we have weapons clearly marked for the use of two hands, yet our characters use them with one hand. Would it be too much trouble to have two handed animations for such weapons? For CNJ/WHM and THM/BLM I mean

(>....>)/

I know the answer! I know the answer!

PS4PS3 limitations!

Ok, got an answer that is not an obvious scapegoat?

I was thinking about this just yesterday as I watched some A Realm Reborn Beta footage. The Conjurer visibly held their staff in both hands, and I was quite jealous. It reminded me a lot of the way Garnet and Yuna held their rods in their games.

Totally on board for making this a thing! :)

Actually... nope.

It looks absolutely weird for your BLM/WHM to swing a staff with 2 hands.

Same goes to your SMN/SCH

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ooshima

Actually... nope.

It looks absolutely weird for your BLM/WHM to swing a staff with 2 hands.

Same goes to your SMN/SCH

---

Maybe have it as an option? If you want to two-hand, go for it. If you don't, same deal!

More options = good!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ooshima

Actually... nope.

It looks absolutely weird for your BLM/WHM to swing a staff with 2 hands.

---

It... does? But, um, that's how staff weapons are used. Did you know that?

Well I guess if you think about it, casters/healers have low str so they need 2 hands to hold and swing their staff.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GaiaGuardian

I was thinking about this just yesterday as I watched some A Realm Reborn Beta footage. The Conjurer visibly held their staff in both hands, and I was quite jealous. It reminded me a lot of the way Garnet and Yuna held their rods in their games.

Totally on board for making this a thing! :)

---

This animation still exists it seems somewhere in the depths of the client. My character bugged one day doing turn 7 in coil and my battle stance turned into me holding the staff with both hands. I think I took a screenshot of it, but can't remember. When I'm at my computer I'll check and post it here (if I find it).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Velox

This animation still exists it seems somewhere in the depths of the client. My character bugged one day doing turn 7 in coil and my battle stance turned into me holding the staff with both hands. I think I took a screenshot of it, but can't remember. When I'm at my computer I'll check and post it here (if I find it).

---

Oh yeah, I completely forgot about that! If a White Mage or Conjurer parries, then it will show them holding their staff with two hands.

If it was something different though, I'd love to see! :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheRogueX

It... does? But, um, that's how staff weapons are used. Did you know that?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skaterger

Well I guess if you think about it, casters/healers have low str so they need 2 hands to hold and swing their staff.

---

Go take a long pole, hold it with 2 hands, and imagine how you'd cast some epic magics such as Holy, Flare, Freeze, Firaga etc.

It looks damn awkward if you try to swing or do some drastic/dramatic movement.

It is okay for casters to hold their staffs with 2 hands while in stationary positions but during casts, it is really awk and movement restricting to constantly hold it with two hands.

Looking back at other FF titles, staff users like Yuna (her staff is actually heavy on the top logically speaking and thus not easy to swing at all due to weight concentrating on the other end of the pole) casts one handed (ie. the famous "the sending" cut scene etc).

Physical attackers that use two-hand weapons (bows, spears, axes) already do this. Staff-users (BLM/WHM) need a hand free, you can visibly see them using their free hand to concentrate aether while casting a spell. Tome-users also need a hand free, you see them writing, and either way it would look utterly ridiculous to see them waving their book around with two hands.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Felis

Holding a book with 1 hand and writing in it with the other hand I would not call 1 hand free.

---

I meant they need a hand free of the book to -do- said writing...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brine_Gildchaff

you can visibly see them using their free hand to concentrate aether while casting a spell.

---

Also to hold a not equiped shield in front of the body, because the animation is exactly the same with one handed weapon and shield

Quote:

---

Tome-users also need a hand free, you see them writing, and either way it would look utterly ridiculous to see them waving their book around with two hands.

---

Holding a book with 1 hand and writing in it with the other hand I would not call 1 hand free.

The old version spell caster animations had a bit more variety to them, and I don't think it looked weird at all to wield a staff with 2 hands. I miss the old animations.

The ready stance with a two-handed weapon:
http://static2.finalfantasyxiv.com/a...IV4KqdtPaQ.jpg

Casting with a two-handed weapon:
http://static2.finalfantasyxiv.com/a...IqWWefVfk8.jpg

Two-handed swinging the staff magic attack -- this was one of my favorites as Thaumaturge:
http://static2.finalfantasyxiv.com/a...Her3AKtk8U.jpg

Two-handed weapon with a one-handed attack animation:
http://static2.finalfantasyxiv.com/a...HvlkdT5ZJQ.jpg

You don't like the realism of being able to swing a 100 kilo Axe with one hand? Have you seen some of those Roegadyns? Beefbus...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SeleneVenizelos

You don't like the realism of being able to swing a 100 kilo Axe with one hand? Have you seen some of those Roegadyns? Beefbus...

---

ooooh la la

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mikita

The old version spell caster animations had a bit more variety to them, and I don't think it looked weird at all to wield a staff with 2 hands. I miss the old animations.
Casting with a two-handed weapon:
http://static2.finalfantasyxiv.com/a...IqWWefVfk8.jpg

---

That 2 handed weapon cast looks amazing...

Yeah 1.0 animations were way better

Yeah, until you see the casting in motion and how much it lacks "oomph"

It's a little shiny light and then....nothing. No sense of force, or impact, or any indication that you did anything. If anything, It looked as if you were praying for better animations. Thankfully, Yoshi delivered.

I prefer the new animation where you actually look like you're casting a spell that would do something.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GaiaGuardian

Oh yeah, I completely forgot about that! If a White Mage or Conjurer parries, then it will show them holding their staff with two hands.

If it was something different though, I'd love to see! :D

---

Ahha found it. Not sure if it's the exact same as the parry (parries happen so fast and far between with WHM that I never noticed), but it was cool nonetheless.

http://i62.tinypic.com/sdjp6t.png

The neat thing was the rest of the body still moved according to the "normal" battle stance (slight swaying, tail twitching, etc). I could also cast any spell and it would do the normal cast animation, but would revert right back to this bugged battle stance. It resulted in one of the coolest looking fights from my perspective. Unfortunately, it fixed itself when I died and I haven't been able to replicate it since. T_T

I get the same thing when I parry attacks as well

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ooshima

Go take a long pole, hold it with 2 hands, and imagine how you'd cast some epic magics such as Holy, Flare, Freeze, Firaga etc.

---

Err, you said "swinging," as in physically attacking with the staff, not casting spells. Also, since Yuna's staff is top-heavy, it'd be remarkably easy to swing it about with one hand, once you got it started. Just wouldn't be easy to control.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Ok, got an answer that is not an obvious scapegoat?

---

Probably answered but that was a sarcastic comment lol - It's because they use universal rigging for animations pretty much, rather than paying attention to detail between genders and races (FFXI/1.x), it's easier development...so yeah still a scapegoat type answer.

Bah, guess we'll never see these ever again

Man I miss the weighted animations from 1.0...those were the days. Everything just felt good when you attacked you felt the force behind it, but you know lolgetoutofthefire mechanics don't allow weighted animations.

they also apparantly prevent the developers from doing more work than they need to to slap something out sometimes.

Are you serious? All the casting animations in 1.0 were the same thing depending on if you had a 1 or two handed weapon equipped and that was it. It was the same thing for all classes. How is that less work than having unique animations for each type of magic, including the job spells having their own casting animations?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheRogueX

Err, you said "swinging," as in physically attacking with the staff, not casting spells. Also, since Yuna's staff is top-heavy, it'd be remarkably easy to swing it about with one hand, once you got it started. Just wouldn't be easy to control.

---

Nope, I am talking about casting a spell. Yuna casts with one hand too. Just take a pole like I said, stand in front of a long mirror and watch yourself 2 hand holding it and swing it around or do some spinning or whatever you imagine yourself as a caster casting some magic.. It just look silly to me.

People hold a certain weapon 2 handed because either it is heavy, or the weapon is intended to be 2 handed due to the strength required to use it. For example, weapons such as an axe, a giantsword (like Cloud Strife/Zack's), a spear (or pike/halberd type), a club, etc.

A caster staff is just... nope. tbh I've never seen any casters in a FF game that uses a staff, but casts a spell with animation 2 handed.

This ONLY applies to WHM and BLM and what do these two jobs have in common? They are the only jobs that can choose between a 1-handed or 2-handed weapon. The reason they wield 2-handed staves in 1 hand is so that they can use the same animations regardless of which weapon type they have equipped. It's so that the devs don't have to make 2 unique animations for every spell instead of just 1 like for every other job. It's really that simple.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Estellios

Are you serious?

---

I never said anything specifically about magic animations, I was mostly speaking of melee combat. It's true that magic was pretty lackluster animation wise in 1.0 as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ooshima

Nope, I am talking about casting a spell. Yuna casts with one hand too. Just take a pole like I said, stand in front of a long mirror and watch yourself 2 hand holding it and swing it around or do some spinning or whatever you imagine yourself as a caster casting some magic.. It just look silly to me.

People hold a certain weapon 2 handed because either it is heavy, or the weapon is intended to be 2 handed due to the strength required to use it. For example, weapons such as an axe, a giantsword (like Cloud Strife/Zack's), a spear (or pike/halberd type), a club, etc.

A caster staff is just... nope. tbh I've never seen any casters in a FF game that uses a staff, but casts a spell with animation 2 handed.

---

I'm pretty sure Dagger in Final Fantasy IX used both hands for attacking with her rod and for magic use.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

I'm pretty sure Dagger in Final Fantasy IX used both hands for attacking with her rod and for magic use.

---

Scroll to 0:16, she released one hand (although still close to the rod) while summoning Ramuh/Judgment Bolt

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-2SMco_pDc

While I agree that Dagger seems casts other spell like heals 2 handed in the above video shown, but don't you think it is dead boring? She's just standing there stationary. 2 hand holding a staff is too movement restricting for casts, really. If you fancy fanciful casting animations and combat style, look at how Yuna moves and animates in Dissidia - I think that's the way to go.

Heck, even the way old man Ramuh in XIV casts his judgement bolt (which is one handed) looks cool. Now imagine him holding his staff 2 handed and does the same cast... I rather he take a giant hammer and really hammer you instead (makes more sense based on movement) :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ooshima

Nope, I am talking about casting a spell.

---

You said, and I quote:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ooshima

It looks absolutely weird for your BLM/WHM to swing a staff with 2 hands.

---

Show me in there where you said 'while casting a spell,' because you didn't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ooshima

People hold a certain weapon 2 handed because either it is heavy, or the weapon is intended to be 2 handed due to the strength required to use it. For example, weapons such as an axe, a giantsword (like Cloud Strife/Zack's), a spear (or pike/halberd type), a club, etc.

---

The Quarterstaff is a two-handed weapon. It is neither heavy nor needs a lot of strength in order to be used. Mage staves are more or less just an ornate quarterstaff and designed to be wielded two-handed, when used as a physical weapon to strike with. Also clubs are small, 1 handed weapons, usually. Unless you're talking about the tsuba, of course, which is a giant freaking stick of death. "Giantswords" like what we see in anime and video games never existed, though there were some pretty big swords out there (bidenhänder, zweihänder/flammenschwert, daikatana, etc). I'm starting to think that you might not really know what you're talking about, lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheRogueX

I'm starting to think that you might not really know what you're talking about, lol.

---

I'm questioning your physics logic, lol.

Quote:

---

Mage staves are more or less just an ornate quarterstaff and designed to be wielded two-handed, when used as a physical weapon to strike with.

---

Erm... yes... so? FFXIV, your mages in XIV hit physically with their staff? No, they cast spell.

Quote:

---

Also clubs are small, 1 handed weapons, usually. Unless you're talking about the tsuba, of course, which is a giant freaking stick of death.

---

Yes of course, big ass clubs that are meant to be swung two hand and deal massive damage. I'm not keen in sissy weapons for physical/melee characters.

Quote:

---

Giantswords" like what we see in anime and video games never existed, though there were some pretty big swords out there (bidenhänder, zweihänder/flammenschwert, daikatana, etc).

---

I already stated Cloud's weapon as an example previously. Jecht's sword is pretty gigantic for another example. Whilst these 2 characters does have the strength to hold and wield them single hand to a certain degree, but these weapons are usually 2 handed.

My post above [ http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2325160 ] have further explanations to why mage staff should continue to be one-hand holding for obvious animation reasons.

I'm not interested in movement restricting and boring cast animations like Dagger in IX did.


EDIT: Ultimately, it is undoubtedly that single hand holding of a staff gives greater potential for movement animation and fluid movements. Like I said, go take a pole and stand in front of a mirror and try movements with it, single hand and double hand. The results and impressions you get is just, obvious. Holding it 2 handed just reminds you of axes and swords mostly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ooshima

Scroll to 0:16, she released one hand (although still close to the rod) while summoning Ramuh/Judgment Bolt

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-2SMco_pDc

While I agree that Dagger seems casts other spell like heals 2 handed in the above video shown, but don't you think it is dead boring? She's just standing there stationary. 2 hand holding a staff is too movement restricting for casts, really. If you fancy fanciful casting animations and combat style, look at how Yuna moves and animates in Dissidia - I think that's the way to go.

Heck, even the way old man Ramuh in XIV casts his judgement bolt (which is one handed) looks cool. Now imagine him holding his staff 2 handed and does the same cast... I rather he take a giant hammer and really hammer you instead (makes more sense based on movement) :p

---

Well I wouldn't expect a game released in 2000 to have superb animations

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Well I wouldn't expect a game released in 2000 to have superb animations

---

You have a point there.

With the coming of PS2, PS3 and now PS4, there are greater expectation on movement animations and fluidity, which often, designers look back at physics, aerodynamics and maybe they even have stuntmen trying out stuffs and actions and review them to see which is nice, which is not.

Which I firmly believe that if you hold a staff using 2 hands, it is a huge minus to movement capabilities and fluidity. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ooshima

I'm questioning your physics logic, lol.

---

We're not talking physics here (at least, not directly). I've used swords, axes, staves, and many other melee weapons. I understand how they work and how they're used in real-world situations, while you seem to only have ideas based on video game logic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ooshima

Erm... yes... so? FFXIV, your mages in XIV hit physically with their staff? No, they cast spell.

---

Yes, actually, they can and do, if you want them to. I sometimes whack things with my staff just for fun. Hell, as an Arcanist I regularly hit things with my book because I can and its HILARIOUS.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ooshima

Yes of course, big ass clubs that are meant to be swung two hand and deal massive damage. I'm not keen in sissy weapons for physical/melee characters.

---

Your preferences have nothing to do with realism. A solid, one-handed wooden club can do tremendous amounts of damage to other living creatures (as well as inanimate objects).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ooshima

I already stated Cloud's weapon as an example previously. Jecht's sword is pretty gigantic for another example. Whilst these 2 characters does have the strength to hold and wield them single hand to a certain degree, but these weapons are usually 2 handed.

---

And I pointed out that those are not realistic weapons, nor are they being used in an anywhere near realistic fashion. I'm not even sure why you went back to them after I referenced REAL two-handed weapons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ooshima

My post above [ http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2325160 ] have further explanations to why mage staff should continue to be one-hand holding for obvious animation reasons.

I'm not interested in movement restricting and boring cast animations like Dagger in IX did.

EDIT: Ultimately, it is undoubtedly that single hand holding of a staff gives greater potential for movement animation and fluid movements. Like I said, go take a pole and stand in front of a mirror and try movements with it, single hand and double hand. The results and impressions you get is just, obvious. Holding it 2 handed just reminds you of axes and swords mostly.

---

In the end, however, I wasn't arguing the single-handed use of staves when casting, because I think that looks just fine. I was, however, arguing about *fighting* with them single-handed. Again, you had only said 'swinging' them, not casting spells with them. Also, I don't hold a quarterstaff two-handed anything like how I hold a two-handed sword or axe. They are completely different weapons, wielded in completely different manners.

Now I know you have no idea what you're talking about.

SE bringing back 2 handed stances would be quite a fantastic addition to improving QOL. Maybe not soon, but as long as they re-implement it in the future somehow, that would be a good thing indeed. One can only hope!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheRogueX

We're not talking physics here (at least, not directly). I've used swords, axes, staves, and many other melee weapons. I understand how they work and how they're used in real-world situations, while you seem to only have ideas based on video game logic.

---

Oh wow we have a badass over here. I have used katanas (Kendo) like they are intended to, and use melee weaponry like knifes etc in the military. Get a hold of yourself lol, it's no big deal.

And sorry, these are basic things near the degree of common sense. If you have seen people who uses them used them, you can tell what looks weird and what not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheRogueX

Yes, actually, they can and do, if you want them to. I sometimes whack things with my staff just for fun. Hell, as an Arcanist I regularly hit things with my book because I can and its HILARIOUS.

---

Fun? Sorry, game developers doesn't create a game and design its movement animations to look hilarious because it looks idiotically funny. They are doing a business, mind you. They can, doesn't make they should or it makes sense lmao.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheRogueX

Your preferences have nothing to do with realism. A solid, one-handed wooden club can do tremendous amounts of damage to other living creatures (as well as inanimate objects).

---

Well it's indeed my preference, which leads to the below

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheRogueX

And I pointed out that those are not realistic weapons, nor are they being used in an anywhere near realistic fashion. I'm not even sure why you went back to them after I referenced REAL two-handed weapons.

---

This is final fantasy, mind you. Whilst not realistic and gravity defying in real life, humongous and beastly weapons adds the element of fantasy in the game. As a gamer, you don't know that?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheRogueX

In the end, however, I wasn't arguing the single-handed use of staves when casting, because I think that looks just fine. I was, however, arguing about *fighting* with them single-handed. Again, you had only said 'swinging' them, not casting spells with them. Also, I don't hold a quarterstaff two-handed anything like how I hold a two-handed sword or axe. They are completely different weapons, wielded in completely different manners.

---

Okay, fine, go on with your fighting physically with the staff and maybe your books. I am talking about casting spell and the cast animations all the while, mind you. How many times have I said, hold a damn pole and look into the mirror and tell me how silly it'd look if you cast with 2 hands on the staff? All along I am saying this, and you came with counter argument based on physically fighting with a staff! WUT?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheRogueX

Now I know you have no idea what you're talking about.

---

Ditto.

Or you are just wanting to engage physically with your staff. Sure you can do it if you want to, go ahead and enjoy :o

Well that escalated quickly.

http://youtu.be/p1Vyhve9gtg
skip ahead to 2:00 for the actual fight..

Mind you, with a much more subdued magic system than any of the final fantasy games, some of those two-handed staff swings were pretty impactful and exciting. Imagine if there were actual particles coming out or explosions? :P Notice they mixed in one handed and two-handed casting animations. Would be pretty cool if whenever you casted a spell it would randomly choose between the two.. maybe even make it so if you're near death you lean on the stave or somesuch.
i know, limitations and such, but it's a cool idea.
Really though you two took it a little personally though, no need to get so upset.

tl;dr Gandalf pwns with 2handed staff wielding