July 15th Hotfix Notes - "S rank elite marks will have top display priority."

Two weeks after this supposed change, and they still disappear everytime they spawn when enough people are attacking them (read: always).

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Originally Posted by Mitsukai123

Two weeks after this supposed change, and they still disappear everytime they spawn when enough people are attacking them (read: always).

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Display priority is just a client side change. The real issue is too many people in one spot for the server to handle, so it's likely it literally just cannot handle it all and things don't work right. Which tells you that too many people are doing the content, and that's because the rewards are too high. As they always say "this is why we can't have nice things"

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Originally Posted by ispano

Display priority is just a client side change. The real issue is too many people in one spot for the server to handle, so it's likely it literally just cannot handle it all and things don't work right. Which tells you that too many people are doing the content, and that's because the rewards are too high. As they always say "this is why we can't have nice things"

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Except they fixed this problem when Behemoth/Odin were popular, so...

I've never had that issue to be honest. What platform are you playing on?

And still Odin usually disappeared after the adjustments. I guess there's a limit on how many characters on screen this game can handle, despite its priority.

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Originally Posted by Baneus

I've never had that issue to be honest. What platform are you playing on?

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PC. Maybe your server isn't very populated?

The issue still persists with all ranks. I just think there's too many people around for it to matter. Just today was a prime example: Albin the Ashen spawned in Southern Thanalan. I gathered with my group at it's spawn point and couldn't see it...it wasn't until it was at around 75% that it appeared on my screen, and we had been there for about a minute before I saw/heard any spell/ability effects. People were still piling in when he was initially pulled as well. I play on PS4 and haven't had this sort of thing happen until these hunts, even Odin/Behemoth stays on my screen for the duration of the fight, and there's easily double or triple the number I normally see while hunting marks. ^^;

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Originally Posted by Mitsukai123

PC. Maybe your server isn't very populated?

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Behemoth is highly populated. Though I do play on Oceanic time so maybe 60 to 80 people is under the limit?

If I remember a post from the devs way back correctly, display priority happens in "grids" so if you are in a different grid than the mob... there is a chance you will not see it, if there are too many things in your current grid.

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Originally Posted by Baneus

I've never had that issue to be honest. What platform are you playing on?

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I have this on a pc running 15x the benchmark needed.

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Originally Posted by Imoen

If I remember a post from the devs way back correctly, display priority happens in "grids" so if you are in a different grid than the mob... there is a chance you will not see it, if there are too many things in your current grid.

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I normally stand way away from the Mark and away from other people not in my caster group, maybe that's it? I know our melee team complains about it happening.

Doubt that's it either. I always go to where most of the shadow flares are, which should be where the mob is and just flash away.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

Doubt that's it either. I always go to where most of the shadow flares are, which should be where the mob is and just flash away.

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If people are hitting it with Flare then they're still almost in melee range. Personally (with both my completed Jobs being casters), I sit at max casting range (if people move then I have to move) and just drop heals on as many people as I can after hitting the Mark once. That normally does the trick.

Some common misconceptions cropping up here.

First, the issue isn't people's computers or consoles, although those on the low end may compound the issue. The issue is the SERVER cannot handle the load of telling every single person out of 300, what the other 299 are doing, plus NPCs and mobs.

Second, if you cannot see the mob, your abilities do not affect it, at all. Same if you cannot see a party member, your abilities do not affect them, such as AoE heals.

And lastly, the few times I was at an Odin or Behemoth when they got the same audience current hunts do, they still had the vanishing issue even after the "fix".

They broke the system further with that hotfix. Before, S ranks disappear for maybe 3-5 second at a time and I see them around 70% the entire fight. Now, if they appear 5% of the fight, I feel very lucky. I'm not even looking forward to S ranks anymore due to this.

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Originally Posted by Zephyranthes

They broke the system further with that hotfix. Before, S ranks disappear for maybe 3-5 second at a time and I see them around 70% the entire fight. Now, if they appear 5% of the fight, I feel very lucky. I'm not even looking forward to S ranks anymore due to this.

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They didn't break anything. It's just the sheer number of people, nothing more. It's also not likely to be "fixed" the way some players want. There are ways to do it, but most players would complain.

There still seem to be misconceptions about the fix made to display priority. Perhaps this will help explain what is going on.

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Originally Posted by Letter from the Producer LIVE IX

A: In order to avoid CPU stress when a large amount of people gather together, fields are rendered using 8 meter grids. Furthermore, these grids are not focused around your character, but rather the areas of the zone.

In a single grid, a maximum of 100 characters will be displayed. Since NPCs and monsters have display priority, the monsters themselves do not actually disappear, but once more than 100 players enter a grid, certain characters are no longer displayed. The system was set up to hide objects from other grids, so even if hundreds of characters gather, stress is not placed on your PC.

However, there is one problem. If, for example, Behemoth is in a certain grid, and the amount of characters in that grid exceeds 100, no matter what happens he will always be displayed within that grid. However, there is no display priority for adjacent grids. In short, if you're not positioned in the same grid as Behemoth, you won't be able to see him when the area is crowded with hundreds of players. If you move to the grid where Behemoth is located he will always be displayed, but once he moves to a different grid he will disappear again.

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The underlined section is our current situation after the display priority fix. After problems with Odin and Behemoth, the devs changed their display priority, but despite that, there were still problems due to the grid. After they tweaked the system to display normal display priorities across all grids, they were visible regardless of where you were standing.

Wishful thinking here, but I think they wanted to change their display priority first and monitor how that fix worked before taking the next step, which would be changing their priority across all grids.

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Originally Posted by Spellbinder

There still seem to be misconceptions about the fix made to display priority. Perhaps this will help explain what is going on.



The underlined section is our current situation after the display priority fix. After problems with Odin and Behemoth, the devs changed their display priority, but despite that, there were still problems due to the grid. After they tweaked the system to display normal display priorities across all grids, they were visible regardless of where you were standing.

Wishful thinking here, but I think they wanted to change their display priority first and monitor how that fix worked before taking the next step, which would be changing their priority across all grids.

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Thanks for finding the post I was referring too ^^

I was standing on top of a S cuz I am WAR, but it still disappear.
Funny thing is our full party participated the fight from 100% hp but only get 5 seals.

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Originally Posted by tOnni3

I was standing on top of a S cuz I am WAR, but it still disappear.
Funny thing is our full party participated the fight from 100% hp but only get 5 seals.

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Probably because they couldn't see it either.

Yes, they said the same thing.
But I doubt that some party got full credit, how did they make it, or just luck that server render S instead of players ?

The lack of official reply with regards to this issue is disturbing.

The fix that is implemented is the same as the fix they did for odin and behemoth, if you want the mob to load you have to stand in the same grid as it(the world is split into an 8yalm x 8yalm grid) if you're standing in the same grid square it will always have display priority. If the mob moves to a different one and disappears all you have to do is follow it to the new grid space. Works every time.

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Originally Posted by Zephyranthes

The lack of official reply with regards to this issue is disturbing.

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Indeed, as much as I love the reward from the Hunt, which is totally beyond GREAT... these hunts really kills the game, it renders pretty much ALL other contents obsolete and a big waste of time compared to doing the Hunt. Almost a month and still no official reply other than band aid. Just make rewards from dungeon and duty finder far far more appealing and lower the amount of rewards from Hunt. That will cut down the amount of people doing it and make the Hunt as casual activities you do on the side. Right now it is THE MUST DO priority....

Never had any issues at all with Behemoth or Odin after the fixes, also AoE heals do go off even if you can't see or target a party member, as long as they're within range anyway. So yes, they could have properly fixed it like Odin and Behemoth but didn't do so, they could just lower the display priority of Egis and mounts, companions included, since they also count towards the limit and I always see more of them than actual players during zerg rushes. Display priority should always be Monster engaged > Party Members > everything else but you know, this game has lots of weird decisions that keep getting over justified by fans.

Square Enix logic: Egis and fairies, other players, NPCs, a tree and even a few bushes are more important on the rendering priority list than a mob trying to kill you. (In that order, too.)

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Originally Posted by DragonSlayer45

Square Enix logic: Egis and fairies, other players, NPCs, a tree and even a few bushes are more important on the rendering priority list than a mob trying to kill you. (In that order, too.)

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Except it's not client side rendering that is the problem any more.
Client side works fine when the number of people is reasonable, and the display priority made sure that the elite mark was visible within those parameters, as it could disappear for some people then too.
The problem is server side as was explained already.
Applying the same fix as they did to Odin/Behemoth takes time, and even then it's only reasonable to expect that to be done for the S-ranks.

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

Indeed, as much as I love the reward from the Hunt, which is totally beyond GREAT... these hunts really kills the game, it renders pretty much ALL other contents obsolete and a big waste of time compared to doing the Hunt. Almost a month and still no official reply other than band aid. Just make rewards from dungeon and duty finder far far more appealing and lower the amount of rewards from Hunt. That will cut down the amount of people doing it and make the Hunt as casual activities you do on the side. Right now it is THE MUST DO priority....

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A month? It's been barely 3 weeks.

People comparing the hunt to Odin/Behemoth are gravely underestimating the horde's size. It's nothing comparable. There are more people on a A rank than on Odin....

As for the grid display, please explain how I can't see a mob that is stomping me, please ?

Every S rank that spawned today that I was at disappeared constantly.

Although the one in Outer La Noscea is kind of comical since you can't tell where that mortal ray move goes off lol. BUT THATS IT, FIX IT SE

I didn't see any of the S-rank monsters I went after today...there were just way too many people in the area and the monster still doesn't seem to take priority. I'm pretty sure I annoyed some people spamming Arm of the Destroyer just so I could tag the invisible thing and get some credit with my party lol.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

People comparing the hunt to Odin/Behemoth are gravely underestimating the horde's size. It's nothing comparable. There are more people on a A rank than on Odin....

As for the grid display, please explain how I can't see a mob that is stomping me, please ?

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It's really hard to tell because the grid lines are invisible to players but this is probably the case.
http://puu.sh/ayrFm/b92ee2e635.png

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Originally Posted by Archulak

It's really hard to tell because the grid lines are invisible to players but this is probably the case.
http://puu.sh/ayrFm/b92ee2e635.png

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I could believe it if it wasn't every single time I was fighting or just wandering around A or S ranks.

I saw a grand total of 3 A ranks, due to finding them myself, and only one S, due to also finding it myself.

I killed more than that though, and came across a few more, and yet every single time I die without seeing anything.

Everytime, I get credit for using flaming arrow at the place most of them are, then singing Foe because it does not need to see the mob once I have a few enmity. More often than not, I even just have an enmity bar with no mob name.

Edit : for a few As like Hell's claw, your drawing could have red and blue dots on the same place.

Yea it's a pain because you don't know where the lines are but it does work. I've always seen every S or A I've been to and they only disappear if they get pulled away, the only way to load them again is if you run after them. The real problem is if you get there and you can't see it from the start, because in my drawing if you run right it wont load,back wont load and left wont load so if you don't know it's location very well you have about a 75% chance of going the wrong way. In that case you kinda just have to guess but when you walk into the right grid it's pretty evident when the mob is suddenly in your face. Also you can be standing almost exactly on top of the boss because even if you're 1 pixel outside that grid the game might not load it. Here's another crappy paint diagram to show how i assume the load priority works.

http://puu.sh/ayu6n/95c5229edb.png

Inside each of those grid spaces the first thing checked is if there's odin or something similar and if there is it loads it, but if you have too many people in your grid then it wont check any past that cause you're already capped.

I had it today with and s rank where I couldn't see it at ALL despite standing right ontop of the horde that was fighting it. Now after SE did the fix for Odin and Behemoth, I had no problem. (cause they would poof on me too when fighting them before the fix) I just hope this issue gets addressed soon. Cause this is getting bad.

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Originally Posted by Archulak

http://puu.sh/ayu6n/95c5229edb.png

Inside each of those grid spaces the first thing checked is if there's odin or something similar and if there is it loads it, but if you have too many people in your grid then it wont check any past that cause you're already capped.

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hmm OK so if I'm not here in time, the game will constantly try to load players and even if I go right for the boss, I won't see it until I'm right on it. Even doing so though, I probably won't see it for a while because of lag induced by the rendering delay. Meh, sucks to be late or not living close to data centers then :(

I think SE should change the grid priority display to include the 2 or 3 next cases in case of S rank and above type of mobs. I cant imagine the pain when they introduce SS rank mobs.

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Originally Posted by ispano

Second, if you cannot see the mob, your abilities do not affect it, at all.

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False. That's what the update actually changed to me.

Can't see it, Holy it.

Even if you stand on the same grid as the boss (not hard to know where certain skills are landing) most times it still wont load.

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Originally Posted by ispano

Second, if you cannot see the mob, your abilities do not affect it, at all. Same if you cannot see a party member, your abilities do not affect them, such as AoE heals.

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Incorrect, personal experience says otherwise. The only way to get credit when you don't see the boss is by using point blank aoes like blizzard 2 or shadow flare, even flash works

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Originally Posted by Alukah

Even if you stand on the same grid as the boss (not hard to know where certain skills are landing) most times it still wont load.

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Dunno it's always worked for me also the grids are only about 8x8 if i remember correctly which means they only cover about the same area as bliz 2 or shadow flare, it's pretty tiny. It also matters how many people are standing between you and the boss because they'll load first and if there's a lot of them you'll hit cap before you get to the grid the mob is in.

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

Indeed, as much as I love the reward from the Hunt, which is totally beyond GREAT... these hunts really kills the game, it renders pretty much ALL other contents obsolete and a big waste of time compared to doing the Hunt. Almost a month and still no official reply other than band aid. Just make rewards from dungeon and duty finder far far more appealing and lower the amount of rewards from Hunt. That will cut down the amount of people doing it and make the Hunt as casual activities you do on the side. Right now it is THE MUST DO priority....

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So your advice is to take something that hundreds of players want to do, evidenced in so many they disappear, and remove the reason they want to do the event.

Ever wonder if it is not hunts that kill the rest of the game as much as the rest of the game sucks?