Another... Red Mage Concept

I was reading through a red mage concept post a couple of days ago and normally speculation and such bores me. However, for some reason with this one I "thought" I had some good idea.

So I have compiled a basic idea of what I personally would like to see red mage like. Again, this is just how I see it in my head, not how I predict it is going to be if/when it is released.

If you want to add to it then please do. Make kind, useful suggestions and not idiotic trollific (not a word i know) remarks.

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Red Mage // FFXIV

Weapon - Rapier (Peircing)
Armour - Light/Cloth

Attributes: Main - Strength // Secondary - Mind
Level 15 job: Conjurer


Breif Description:

A Red Mage is reknown for there superior skill in wielding a rapier. There have rapier attacks are further enhanced by the use of elemental stances, which provide damage
and even support abilities to aid other party members.

The red mage has trained in the arts of both black and white magic and although they are not masters of any particular magic they are able to use black magic to inflict elemental
DoTs and white magic for the preservation of the party.


The secondary job required for unlock would be Conjurer and the second job allowed for cross class abilities would be THM. This will allow access to the following cross class abilities

Cleric Stance - Swaps mind with intelligence
Raise - Raises a party member
Protect - Increases defence
Stoneskin - Applies a shield barrier
Swift Cast - Insta cast next spell
Blizzard II - AoE bind


Below is a list of skills and a breif description of what I think they should do. These are not all the skills but just a few so it gives an idea of how I invision Red Mage to work.

Combo 1

(1) Rapier thrust - Single target damage

(2) Dark thrust - Reduces resistance to magic damage by 15% (Duration 15 seconds)

(3) Flaming Flurry - High potency fire based attack

My thinking with this one is quite obvious, (3) would effectively get an instant buff from (2). Also the buff from (2) would increase damage from all other magic sources. The duration of 15 seconds would just barely make it so RDM could
switch between both combo and maintain the buff. However, if you are moving due to boss mechanics then the buff would wear off. Short duration would stop it from being a perma buff and effectively becoming overpowerd.


Combo 2

(1) Rapier thrust - Single target damage

(2) Dark buster - Blinds single target (Duration 20 seconds)

(3) Armour break - Reduces resistance to peircing damage (Duration 15 seconds)



Pulses

These below pulses will cost mp to maintain similar to bard songs. Only one pulse can be on at one time.

Fire Pulse (Stance) - The Red mage engulfs his rapier with flames and gains a 10% attack buff. Any mobs within a certain radius of the red mage will be burnt by the heat radiating from his sword.
The above is a stance similar to bard songs. This will give the red mage a striaght up dps but would also pulse (Like a normal DoT) fire damage to monsters within its area.


Wind Pulse (Stance) - The Red mage engulfs his rapier with a majestic wind aura, applying a skill speed buff to himself and the surrounding party members.
The above is a stance similar to bard songs. This will give the red mage and all his close allies a skill speed buff.

Holy Pulse (Stance) - he Red mage engulfs his rapier with a soft holy glow. This glow applies a permanant low regen affect to all close party members.
The above is a stance similar to bard songs. This will give the red mage and all his close allies a a permanant but low regen buff to help mitigate damage.


Dual cast (OGC Buff 5min cooldown) - Dual cast will allow for the red mage to use two pulses at one time for 30 seconds. Once dual cast wears off the last pulse applied will wear off too.


So I'm going to give a sort of combat playout below.



>Start fire pulse skill for damage bonus and pulse DoT.

>Cleric stance to swap your mind (Second highest stat) to intelligence.

>Begin combo 1. Increases magic damage of your fire pulse and other sources of magic damage.

>Begin combo 2. Debuffing the mob and increasing your own damage and dragoons damage.

>Party starts to take damage.

>Cancel clerics stance to revert intelligence to mind.

>Apply holy pulse for regen affect.

I'm not going to lie, I clicked to see what dumb idea someone had come up with....but this is actually really solid. I'm impressed with the time the OP took to make this up, and it actually seems like a really viable option!

I see a number of RDM posts. And while they sound good, it's pretty much what we have. SCH with a book instead of rapier.

This isn't a SCH with a rapier. A SCH is a healer. A SMN is a DPS.

My idea of a red mage is to have it DPS with a rapier while filling in the lack of DPS with Pulse Dots and increasing the damage of other party members. The 2 rotations are used for party damage buffs and DPSing. And the pulses are used to fill in the gaps where the other members are falling down.

For instance: Tank taking to much damage. Switch to holy pulse and help out, whilst still maintaining good dps and the buffs for the other party members via your rotations. If your going for a straight up ZERG then pop in Wind pulse to increase overall damage of all melee in range with skill speed whilst still maintaining your DPS rotations and buffs.

It seems you haven't looked at my OP at all because you would have seen quite quickly that this was not a healer.....

You are looking for a utility/support job. Minus the rapier enkindle-like moves, the majority of the skill set are already applied to SCH, and SMN for the most part.

SCH=Main healer with DPS dots and party shielding.

SMN=Main DPS with healing utility.

That's really what I'm getting from your post, sorry if I don't understand. But SCH is probably too closely related to what most people request when talking about Red Mage.

RDM isn't a main healer. It is closer to SMN. I believe RDM needs to combo of sword use and blk/white magick

Hmm, while I give you props for trying... I dunno if this really fits the Red Mage motif.

To be honest I think your confusing Red Mage for another completely different class. Mystic Knight if I'm not mistaken. Sounds alot like it anyway. With your magic empowering your attacks n such.

Red Mage is really supposed to be, at it's core, a melee fencer who is able to cast low-mid tier black magic or white magic.

Not sure how they'd go about implementing this properly though. Doublecast has to be there for sure somewhere. Best I can think of is combo's that allow you to insta cast certain spells (fire/cure etc) maybe with a buff to their dmg to keep them competitive... or w/e i dunno. ;P

The main problem with the OP is what is the starting class quest for RDM? You speak of the secondary classes needed, but what would be the first starting class?

I think they might think about adding RDM in expansions anyway, but with NIN so close I think it's a while off before we get new classes for new jobs. Either we need more starting cities or we need to pop the guilds in somewhere already created.

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

The main problem with the OP is what is the starting class quest for RDM? You speak of the secondary classes needed, but what would be the first starting class?

I think they might think about adding RDM in expansions anyway, but with NIN so close I think it's a while off before we get new classes for new jobs. Either we need more starting cities or we need to pop the guilds in somewhere already created.

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Already confirmed we're getting several new classes/jobs in the upcoming expansion.

Starting class for a rdm would be fencer. And you would have to have fencer 30 cnj and thm level 15 to unlock ^_^

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Originally Posted by Furyan

I was reading through a red mage concept post a couple of days ago and normally speculation and such bores me. However, for some reason with this one I "thought" I had some good idea.

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Just kinda writing what I'm seeing in your build, and tweaking it in my own way. Not exactly balanced, just whipping it up as I go.

Feel free to look at it and build on yours more.

Fencer -> RDM (30 FNC, 15 CNJ, optional 15 THM)

Let's say the Job skills are (using yours) Fire Pulse, Wind Pulse, Holy Pulse, and Dual Cast. We have room for one more, I'm just gonna say Composure: Increases the duration of the next Pulse (half MP normal used per tick for 15 seconds, or whatever the duration is of Battle Voice).

Class skills are another thing. It needs an array of attacks and off GCD skills.

With yours we have 5 attacks: Rapier Thrust (personally I'd rename this one, Swift Blade or something), Dark Thrust, Dark Buster, Flaming Fury, and Armor Break.

Perhaps we could add a DoT attack to the mix for Fencer, since . As Fencer isn't exactly a mage, I'm not sure a spell like Bio, Aero, or Thunder would fit the bill. Maybe Poison Strike or something. DoT lasts 18 seconds, same DoT potency as Phlebotemize.

As for some other skills, just off the top of my head, could have something like:

Tranquil Heart: Reduces enmity gain from skills for 15 seconds (less potent than Quelling Strikes). 3 Minute Recast

Addle: Inflicts Slow upon the target for 30 seconds. 2 minute recast

Gravity: Moderate amount of potency, inflicts Heavy on the target. 30 second recast.

etc. etc. until it has the same amount of skills as other classes.

Traits... Too lazy to come up with some. Might edit later for more stuff. But yeah. Pick it apart if you want.

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Originally Posted by Khaoticsuccubus

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Thanks for the reply. I kind of agree with you in that red mage traditionally has access to low level magic. However in this game that would never work because if you gave it fire it would have to be better than your rapier skills for you to stop and cast it, but it cant be as strong as blm because that would break blm

The concept I took was one from Ffxi. In that game rdm used enspells (enhance spells) to enhance thiee blade. These spells were under powered and rdm in that game never meleed anyway.

I took that concept and made it so it would fit in to the current system we have.

I have only listed job skills there not any class skills. So I would expect some actual spells to cast I just wouldnt think giving it the same stuff as blm and cnj would ever work.

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Originally Posted by Eggnook24

You are looking for a utility/support job. Minus the rapier enkindle-like moves, the majority of the skill set are already applied to SCH, and SMN for the most part.

SCH=Main healer with DPS dots and party shielding.

SMN=Main DPS with healing utility.

That's really what I'm getting from your post, sorry if I don't understand. But SCH is probably too closely related to what most people request when talking about Red Mage.

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There's a reason I believe the job has to be boiled down to the simplest form of its concept. Forget the "support job" nonsense and focus on "guy with a sword that uses magic". You can build a job using that core aspect of RDM once you toss away the preconceptions that don't work within the current game.

That said, I wanted to comment on some of the stuff the OP presented.

]

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Originally Posted by Furyan

The secondary job required for unlock would be Conjurer and the second job allowed for cross class abilities would be THM. This will allow access to the following cross class abilities

Cleric Stance - Swaps mind with intelligence
Raise - Raises a party member
Protect - Increases defence
Stoneskin - Applies a shield barrier
Swift Cast - Insta cast next spell
Blizzard II - AoE bind

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This really depends on how you want to build the job, though I don't think splitting the job between STR and MND is a good idea. I'd switch out Blizzard II for Thunder, unless you also want Blizzard II to supplement as an AoE attack. The devs would be iffy about it, but I think giving RDM access to Sleep would also fit the class and give it a form of utility. BLM would still have the advantage since they can AoE Sleep.

Quote:

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Combo 1

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The standard "melee should combo into magic" cocnept, which is fine.

Quote:

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Combo 2

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This I'm iffy on because it does two things. First it has too many debuffs attached to it (Blind and Piercing Resist Down on top of the job already having something that reduces resistance to magic). Secondly because if Armour Break's debuff is separate from Disembowel you're basically making every raid stack a RDM and a DRG for a double piercing resist down debuff. Sure, BRD would benefit from thing but it doesn't really seem right to have something like that happen.

Quote:

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Fire Pulse (Stance)

Wind Pulse (Stance)

Holy Pulse (Stance)

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To start, I don't think auras really belong on RDM. That said, The idea behind Fire Pulse is decent, but an AoE damage aura isn't something that should be given to player characters IMO. Wind Pulse is too good to have the raid pass up on it by letting the RDM use their MP on other things. Holy Pulse is the odd man out since minor healing is not really helpful with the amount of damage that you see flying around.

Your attempt is appreciated, but yeah it needs tweaking.

Interesting thread. There have been numerous RDM idea threads since the ARR release (and I'm sure since 1.0, though I didn't look that far back), so in some ways this concept is no different from the others. Very flushed out though, so props for that, but I'd still love to see it as a melee class with some magic (a bit like how NIN looks).

I'd throw in Red Lotus Blade and Death Blossom for weapon attacks, and Refresh, Slow, Gravity, Haste, and Paralyze in their spell lineup, in addition to some En-spells (instead of the "pulses" you envision). Obviously, this is probably too much for a job to have, and many of these would have to be in the base class (which I could envision sharing with Blue Mage - with RDM specializing in debuffs and En-spells, and BLU focusing on monster abilities).

I do like CNJ as the prereq, and think it fits very well with RDM as a potential buffer in addition to being a DPS class.

Very good presentation and well thought out.

I still think they need somewhat of an altered idea for RDM. Since all three mages can basically use wht/blm already, adding a sword to the mix wouldn't feel very fresh. I am still hoping for a healer or tank variant that relies on rotation En-spells and damage mitigation.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

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Thanks for great feedback. This is my first time making up ideas for possible classes/jobs in this game and to be honest I had quite a bit of fun with it. I aimed to provide mainly some core "suggestions" to how RDM "could" be in this game.

In my head the pulse concept was the only way I could achieve RDM using sword skills over magic and still provide the magic aspect of the job to the skills, if that makes sense...
I can see how you think some skills would be overpowered when used in conjunction with other classes skills, which I do realise I need to work on and on the other side, some skills being unused due to it's lack of usefulness.

The %'s of the buffs and such were just thrown in there and I didn't really do any math as such.

My vision is a simple one - A rapier wielding mage, focusing on sword play as it's main damage, whilst weaving controlled and precise magics to further enhance either himself or party members... and this is what I came up with ^^b

Again thanks for the feedback, I can see by you sig that you quite a RDM enthusiast? So I'm glad that you at least provided some feedback without throwing a brick at my face.

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Originally Posted by Furyan

Again thanks for the feedback, I can see by you sig that you quite a RDM enthusiast? So I'm glad that you at least provided some feedback without throwing a brick at my face.

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The only way I'd throw a brick at you would be if you asked that the job be a carbon copy of XI's RDM. You didn't, so you get to live...for now. ~_^

In all seriousness, if we were not limited to the current design you could afford to have enspells be their own spells and so on. One idea I was kicking around was comboing an elemental sword skill to grant you the enspell effect (similar to how you get Greased Lightning when you finish a MNK combo). Something like Soul Thrust => Burning Blade => You get the Enfire effect for 24 seconds or something.

when i see rdm post ...i always think in the ballad of the three mages

"
I am the red mage, I can do it all,
Both kinds of magic and swordplay too, y'all!
So many skills that it takes to be a hero
A jack of all trades but the master of zero
What am I great at? Nothin' I'm told, ya see I always get the bronze but never the gold
Well some day soon I hope to be best,
Just for a moment better than the rest!

Oh ho... my life is a tragic paradox, I said
Oh ho... I feel like a circle in a squarer box
Why am I afraid to choose a scepter or a blade?
I could focus on one, and son, I'd have it made
Until that day I'm just a man on a quest, but mark my words I'm gonna be the best!"

poor rdm :(

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

when i see rdm post ...i always think in the ballad of the three mages

I am the red mage, I can do it all,
Both kinds of magic and swordplay too, y'all!
So many skills that it takes to be a hero
A jack of all trades but the master of zero
What am I great at? Nothin' I'm told, ya see I always get the bronze but never the gold
Well some day soon I hope to be best,
Just for a moment better than the rest!

Oh ho... my life is a tragic paradox, I said
Oh ho... I feel like a circle in a squarer box
Why am I afraid to choose a scepter or a blade?
I could focus on one, and son, I'd have it made
Until that day I'm just a man on a quest, but mark my words I'm gonna be the best!

poor rdm :(

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Funny thing being that if RDM were in a game like WoW or SWTOR you'd have either a spec dedicated to each role to give everyone what they want, or an advanced class per role that meets those ends. Thus RDM would technically be able to be the best at all three...in its own way. >.>

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Funny thing being that if RDM were in a game like WoW or SWTOR you'd have either a spec dedicated to each role to give everyone what they want, or an advanced class per role that meets those ends. Thus RDM would technically be able to be the best at all three...in its own way. >.>

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yeah in wow/swotr , rdm could have a heal spec (maybe meleeing to heal like fistweavers), a melee spec (rapier master) and a caster spec (a faster nuker instead of slow powerfull nukes , a way to chain them in order to do more dmg ) even if wanted a tank spec too

Do they have any plans to bring RDM into FFXIV anyway? I really wish they do.

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Originally Posted by Ampheni

Do they have any plans to bring RDM into FFXIV anyway? I really wish they do.

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It's been talked about but using very...questionable mindsets (Yoshida mentioned in an early interview that an idea was RDM requiring BLM and WHM unlocked, though that makes no sense for several reasons). We also keep in mind the game's approach to class design plus the dynamic between classes. Add the trinity focus on all we can do is give suggestions and pray it's not more of this.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

It's been talked about but using very...questionable mindsets (Yoshida mentioned in an early interview that an idea was RDM requiring BLM and WHM unlocked, though that makes no sense for several reasons). We also keep in mind the game's approach to class design plus the dynamic between classes. Add the trinity focus on all we can do is give suggestions and pray it's not more of this.

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I cried when I clicked through to that link :( I pray the days of Dynamis haste and refresh whore are over, I couldn't bare it to happen again here.

Your resistance magic damage -15% with your combo is to much, with the dragon kick from MNK it would lower the resistance to -25% and it's to much.
Also, BRD have a Lower Piercing resistance too, it would make some class overpowered to give thoses resistance debuff to RDM.

I Think you forget how good at enfeebling RDM is.
They should get some enspell for sure, they enchant weapon, not only ours but could also enchant the party members weapon.
Instead of your pulses, i'd see more of an enhancement debuff, that gives blind, slow and others enfeebling more potent while the pulse is active, and another one that will make them last longer.
With that in mind, make able to use more than a pulse at a time, as it consume MP, you choose to use both at the same time for trash or boss, or only one.

Their combo should be something more self related but also enhance party members.

Throwing out an idea there:

1: Fire Spell (Drain Fire and Light Resistance from target to 1% Can stack 5 times, Deals Fire Damage)
1: Ice Spell (Drain Ice and Dark Resistance from target to 1% Can stack 5 times, Deals Ice Damage)

2: Enlight Slash (Gives an enspell based on Spell used before and stack obtained from it, Deals Magical Damage) A buff skill can allow it to be share to the entire party

3: Magic Burst (Unleash the power of your weapon ang magic skills, gives a random Magical buff, Deals Magical Damage and drain MP)
3: Skills Chain (Unleash the power of your weapon and your physic skills, gives a random physical buff, Deals Magical Damage and drain TP)


Note: Fire/Ice spell also effect Physical skills based on element.