Why PvP isn't popular enough

I would like to go into detail concerning every personal issue I have with the current PvP system, however, I'm sure PvP hasn't been around too long in FF14.So I will try to be as understanding as I can...(Also have to post a few times due to limit, hope I don't disrupt the balance here.)

Now, I am coming at this from having experienced several systems of PvP in popular MMOs. Ranging from WoW's ever popular arena system with competitive rankings to Runescape and it's really boring looking (almost turn-based, can't say the same for Rs3 though) "PKing".

In my experience, not once have I seen a purely balanced PvP system on an MMO that has an integration of PvE. With that said I doubt we can ever hope for that, at least now, with FF14's recent expansion of their PvP community base. SE, I'm sure, is trying their hardest to reconcile the current issues in their system. Though with the Morale topic in mind, it all seems to be a bit of a mess...

Only recently had I been told that Morale is essentially useless in the only PvP queue that lasts less than 10-20 minutes. If it is absolutely paramount that the Morale stat be taken away from CF, why not make it more worth our while to achieve glory in the Wolves' Den? From what Iv'e seen, the only really cool thing that we can get is some decent looking gear and a horse; all by playing in a battleground that you really don't need to participate in(I'm sure most do participate). Of course that appeals to our sense of vanity but where is the glory in these feats? Maelstrom dominates on my server, pre-made after pre-made, I often just hope for 2nd place. Though I see no glory in having wins handed to large groups of players who defected to one side simply because that team wins more often.

What's so wrong with working hard to improve upon yourself to conquer a set of challenges in order to attain a glorious title, or a shiny new suit of armor?

Either way, my argument here is essentially stating that we all have very little incentive to PvP. We all need something that is worth talking about; glory. There is no glory in accumulating a certain amount of points whether we win or lose; to get a piece of armor that doesn't really do much or to ride a glorified pony. In the end, when we get these items, how important do we feel? "I spent 200 hours getting my horsie!"..."Cool story bro, now tell me, was it worth it?".

I can't speak for those who play on a casual level (who likely just want the pony), but I can speak from a competitive players' standpoint. There has to be something worth achieving! This is what I would do:

1. Add a ranked system of some kind to Wolves' Den and make it so no single team can affect the queue and hand out free wins.

2. Use the genius "Sync" idea and allow new players (like myself) to compete against i100 teams, though give the geared people the advantage, just make it so I don't do virtually nothing to my target. There is nothing more glorious than outplaying a team that has more gear than I.

3. CF should be a battleground for those who want to achieve moderate gear to compete in the arena, and a fun way to wreak havoc on opposing GCs. This is something that all casual players can appeal to.

Really though, despite FF14 being more PvE oriented, SE has done well so far. There just isn't enough incentive for the competitive player to invest time into PvP. If SE wants to reel in some new subscribers, there needs to be a reason to go out and K.O. other players.

Thanks for listening to me rant,
Asa:cool:

Again, apologies on the length...

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Originally Posted by Asa_san

2. Use the genius "Sync" idea and allow new players (like myself) to compete against i100 teams

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...i80-Wolves-Den

I hate to say it, but this game has to many carebears >.>

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Originally Posted by Clessx

I hate to say it, but this game has too many carebears >.>

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Because that's how it is. That and the PvP is boring and doesn't fit in with the story.

It fits into the story, it just isn't the most logical..I just don't understand how three city states who are admittedly on a tenuous alliance with each other devote some nondescript amount of resources that are mentioned to be fairly large into a game of essentially take and hold over a place that holds legitimate strategic value. Wolf's Den made sense, it was competitive and it offered a justification for people beating the crap out of each other. Frontlines's backstory is that they're wasting resources on something that is essentially politically irrelevant because 'tension'. So...why are they out there if they're not willing to actually deal with the repercussions? I don't understand that part.

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Originally Posted by Baneus

Because that's how it is. That and the PvP is boring and doesn't fit in with the story.

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Im more of a PvP player then anything, and i can say the PvP in this game is fun and well balanced. I can understand some not liking it, and if anything there isnt ENOUGH different types but its really good for having come from a PvE game.

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Originally Posted by Baneus

Because that's how it is. That and the PvP is boring and doesn't fit in with the story.

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How can PVP be boring? You're facing another human, its literally different every time.
You probably just don't care for it because of lack of skill.

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Originally Posted by Baneus

Because that's how it is. That and the PvP is boring and doesn't fit in with the story.

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PvP might be boring for you, rather subjective of course. I just wondered what exactly it is you do PvE wise. Couldn't see any coil/ex primal activity going on on your char. Or do you run 4-man dungeons only?

I thought you were some PvE monster when I read your comment. I guess you did not even try PvP enough but still wanted to force your premature opinion on everyone just for the sake of it. :D

They are working on the morale issue and the PvP is pretty balanced. The dev team is already designing new PvP content and I think they're going in the right direction. 2.0 is still a "new" game...Square-Enix is noticing how popular PvP is in general and they are responding accordingly. Give it a few months...this dev team started on a pretty small budget (most of the staff from 1.0 was reassigned or fired) and they're growing because of the success of the game. Does anyone read anything before posting this garbage? They hear us and they're working on it.

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Originally Posted by Baneus

Because that's how it is. That and the PvP is boring and doesn't fit in with the story.

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Originally Posted by Logo

How can PVP be boring? You're facing another human, its literally different every time.
You probably just don't care for it because of lack of skill.

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kek
http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/8045...on-Popcorn.gif

The main change I would like to see done to PvP is that they make it so you can't enter if you're a derp.

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Originally Posted by Rydia13

The main change I would like to see done to PvP is that they make it so you can't enter if you're a derp.

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but, i like kill baddies. . .

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Originally Posted by Rydia13

The main change I would like to see done to PvP is that they make it so you can't enter if you're a derp.

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doable ... if they put in a real personal rating system based on flag captures. defending flags. enemy flag point takeovers. honorable kills based on kills done at flag points. damage done. healing done. drone spawn point. drone kills. and any other stats based on productive actions in the match. that would match players up with other players of equal caliber. it could potentially filter out the derpaholics, such as midfielders. the undergeared. the afk's. and just the all out bads. that way the bads can play with the bads and the players who want to actually, you know, play the battleground, aren't forced to make a premade so their gaming experience isn't ruined by derps who midfield, ditch a flag to chase down ONE random player and other things that bads typically do that make games a loss.

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Originally Posted by abzoluut

PvP might be boring for your, rather subjective of course. I just wondered what exactly it is you do PvE wise. Couldn't see any coil/ex primal activity going on on your char. Or do you run 4-man dungeons only?

I thought you were some PvE monster when I read your comment. I guess you did not even try PvP enough but still wanted to force your premature opinion on everyone just for the sake of it. :D

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LOL #truth
They should make it so you must be at least rank 10, no wait since frontlines 20
to post in PVP forums

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Originally Posted by Gor

doable ... if they put in a real personal rating system based on flag captures. defending flags. enemy flag point takeovers. honorable kills based on kills done at flag points. damage done. healing done. drone spawn point. drone kills. and any other stats based on productive actions in the match. that would match players up with other players of equal caliber. it could potentially filter out the derpaholics, such as midfielders. the undergeared. the afk's. and just the all out bads. that way the bads can play with the bads and the players who want to actually, you know, play the battleground, aren't forced to make a premade so their gaming experience isn't ruined by derps who midfield, ditch a flag to chase down ONE random player and other things that bads typically do that make games a loss.

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Maybe, but it will make queues even longer.

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Originally Posted by Vudus

Maybe, but it will make queues even longer.

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na I don't think so. if the scaling down of matches actually worked, it wouldn't take long to find 24 competent people out of the entire data center to play.

Someone already posted this, but while it's nice to speculate as to (valid)reasons why PvP isn't done or needs work(like leaderboards, better matchmaking/scaling, etc.), the fact of the matter is that many if not most people playing this game don't like PvP, they don't like the feeling of losing(especially if they aren't in MAELSTONG MIRITE gais!?), etc.

They can do all the things to make PvP as enjoyable as in other games, but, if I might be allowed some plagiarism, "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink."

Personally, I love both PvP and PvE, and I totally think the rank 30-40 gear and that war horse are worth it, and that's my subjective opinion.

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Originally Posted by Malakhim

the fact of the matter is that many if not most people playing this game don't like PvP, they don't like the feeling of losing(especially if they aren't in MAELSTONG MIRITE gais!?), etc.

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that's the same with most mmorpgs tho. pvp is never intended to be the milk and butter of the game, nor to even compete with the pve content, but rather more of a subculture in the game, something players do in addition to the pve content but on a smaller scale with its own separate set of rules, rewards and other perks from the pve content. i mean look at world of warcraft, pvp isn't even their focus, never has been, and blizzard doesnt even devote most their time to it, BUT they provide enough content to keep players who aren't even pvp-heads, to keep coming back. its the content that matters, not the winning or losing. so the pvp doesn't need to grab a big portion of the playerbase, it just needs enough players to keep the content reasonably active between players. where SE is messing up is not keeping enough rolling content available for players. we got ONE arena and ONE battleground with mediocre and now almost irrelevant gear rewards. its not that most players dont like pvp, its that players can get bored of it very quickly. there is no incentive to do it beyond glamour and a mount which both can take a long time to get depending on how much of your life you want to spend as a timesink into this game. no leaderboards. no bragging rights. obsolete rewards. its like walking into a huge amusement park and there only being two rides with expensive small stuffed animals for souvenirs.

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Originally Posted by Malakhim

they don't like the feeling of losing(especially if they aren't in MAELSTONG MIRITE gais!?)

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Give them about 1 more month. Then Maelstrom will be filled with the scrub bandwagoners of Adder and Flames who expect an easy win just because they're in Maelstrom now.

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Originally Posted by Skeet

Give them about 1 more month. Then Maelstrom will be filled with the scrub bandwagoners of Adder and Flames who expect an easy win just because they're in Maelstrom now.

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already happening

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Originally Posted by Gor

already happening

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Maelstrom still winning a lot more often than Adder/Flames. In about a month it'll be about even