I HATE MELDING

tier IV advanced melds are the worst thing in this game


seriously, i'm just turning off the game right now. No hunts, no primals, no coil. I just don't care. There are better things for me to do right now. Why this bullshit exists after 1 year is beyond me.

Eh?

/10characters

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

*constructive criticism of forbidden melding*

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rekt

/10char

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

tier IV advanced melds are the worst thing in this game


seriously, i'm just turning off the game right now. No hunts, no primals, no coil. I just don't care. There are better things for me to do right now. Why this bullshit exists after 1 year is beyond me.

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I partially agree. Tier IV melding should be a rough ride, but failing 15-20 times in a row on a tier II with 19% chance is a little backwards.

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Originally Posted by Dallie

I partially agree. Tier IV melding should be a rough ride, but failing 15-20 times in a row on a tier II with 19% chance is a little backwards.

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Unfortunately it seems like they designed the new crafted accessories with Tier IV melds required, even though you still only get 1 guaranteed slot. The first over meld past the guaranteed slot is a pretty painful 28% (ish, i forget the exact number) and then the second meld is 16%. There's a point when you've broken more materia than is available on the market that this gets a little ridiculous. It's not even a matter of money any longer, I could very easily buy every materia on the market and proceed to break them all without even sticking 3 materia on a single item. It's stupid.

http://puu.sh/auTd0/1e1274c170.png
http://puu.sh/auTeX/cfb951cca8.png

First time melding, no fails. I don't know your struggle.

To be on topic though, this is on the line of min/maxxing as far as forbidden melds is concerned. The first meld is already a guaranteed 100% so you can put your IV there, but trying to maximize your stats any further should have consequences associated to it.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

To be on topic though, this is on the line of min/maxxing as far as forbidden melds is concerned. The first meld is already a guaranteed 100% so you can put your IV there, but trying to maximize your stats any further should have consequences associated to it.

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Problem is that the i90 accessories are designed with over melding required. The i90 crafted accessories only get 1 primary stat and 1 secondary stat and cost 1500 myth to make (and a bunch of extra materials, and you need to have worked yourself up to being able to craft 3* items...). The normal i90 accessories get 1 primary stat and 2 secondary stats and only cost 375 myth, no crafting or other materials required. A single Tier IV isn't going to be enough to make this item worth using at all.

But being worth using over an i90 isn't enough. It costs a LOT more than an i90 accessory. They need to compete against i100 & i110 accessories given the extra cost or it's still not worth using. To do this, you need to meld multiple Tier IVs to your item. So this isn't about min/maxxing. I'm not talking about putting 5 Tier IV materia on the item. This is putting 2-3 materia on the item that it requires to be worth creating at all.

It's going to be *fine* as long as you're lucky enough in the creation of the item. But when you're unlucky enough to be expending your entire server's supply of Tier IV materia just to NOT make a single item it's too much.

It's disappointing they haven't made any adjustments to the materia system since release. They have an awesome and robust crafting system as the basis of creating these items. But creation isn't enough. Melding no longer provides a bonus to the base crafted item, it's being made mandatory. Which is unfortunate because melding is still this awful "press button and hope for success". It's not interactive, you don't have much if any control over success or failure, and the chances of success start low and get lower. Not to mention the reliance on the materia system of "wear crap gear and pray you don't get elemental materia". They can do better, the crafting system alone is proof of this.

If they insist on keeping it as pure RNG without skill, it would be so much better if advanced melding involved "progress" instead of all or nothing. Instead of a 29% chance to meld a Tier IV in an over meld slot, melding would advance your progress by perhaps 20-100%. It wouldn't be an even distribution, you'd get 20% more often than anything else, and completing the meld in a single attempt would be very rare. This way you know the base of what you need to spend, but you could get lucky and it's done faster. Melding a different materia before finishing the meld on the last materia would reset the progress for that slot.

At 16%, you would, on average, take 6.25 attempts to meld a Tier IV materia into the 3rd slot. That's really not that bad. However, when it takes you 27 attempts (or 40 attempts to stick a Tier III in the 5th slot), it seems unnecessarily punitive, but that's pure RNG for you.

You know...

In 1.0, failed melding not only cost you your materia, it also cost your gear along with any melded materia it has if any.

There's a time when I blew a Giantsgall Claw, which cost around 2 million back then, simply for melding 2nd materia. Joy! XD

Consider yourself lucky since you don't have to live through that anymore. lol

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Originally Posted by BobbinT

In 1.0, failed melding not only cost you your materia, it also cost your gear along with any melded materia it has if any.

There's a time when I blew a Giantsgall Claw, which cost around 2 million back then, simply for melding 2nd materia. Joy! XD

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This a million times. These new age crafters have no idea of our struggles!

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Originally Posted by SeleneVenizelos

This a million times. These new age crafters have no idea of our struggles!

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It would be neat if this game not only destroyed the item but busted it into some kind of needed sub material like lineage2 did and the game sorta has gotten to with desynthing

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Originally Posted by BobbinT

You know...

In 1.0, failed melding not only cost you your materia, it also cost your gear along with any melded materia it has if any.

There's a time when I blew a Giantsgall Claw, which cost around 2 million back then, simply for melding 2nd materia. Joy! XD

Consider yourself lucky since you don't have to live through that anymore. lol

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I'm aware. So it's a step up from a complete and utter $@#! biscuit of a system, and now it's just crap? Just because 1.0 (which failed) had a worse materia system does not make this good.

I remember crafting in XI from 2003. It was terrible (although I suppose the stuff you made was generally more useful, so there's that...). But this is 11 years later. SE is capable of better now. It's extremely evident in the system they've created for actually crafting the items. I expect better than this for materia.

I'm personally a monumental f**k up when it comes to melding. I've restarted my goldsmith melds 3 (yes.. 3 FULL sets of new gear) times now. Today is the latest.

There's too much information all over the place, especially when you add in these new accessories/belts since 2.3, new tools etc. Apparently new max meld limits on stuff. Well what's the score for those sitting on brand shiny new AF crafter gear, HQ off-hand etc, and not enough money to buy these new belts/accessories?

Can someone give a little information on this kinda thing please?

This would. You could play your materia settings there and see which setup you like the best before actually making one yourself. ^^

The fact that a naked (besides weapon) level 50 crafter has the same meld chance as someone with fully melded gear and the artisan tool... is a big problem.

Last night I literally failed 34 attempts in a row to meld a level 3 materia to the fourth slot of my secondary tool, at an 11% success rate.
I then tried my luck on another meld at 35%, failed 6 in a row, and decided it was a bad night to do melds.

If I remember my statistics right, the mathematical probability of an event with an 89% chance happening 34 times in a row is 1.9%.
Probability of 65% failure triggering 6 times in a row is 7.5%.
Probability of both happening consecutively is 0.14%.

Yeah, really bad luck. For the record, up until that point, I've had what felt like a relatively fair distribution of successes and failures, but over a million gil worth of materia went down the toilet last night. The worst part is I didn't do that many failures before getting a success. I walked away from those melds with nothing to show for it.

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Originally Posted by giantslayer

The worst part is I didn't do that many failures before getting a success. I walked away from those melds with nothing to show for it.

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At least you knew when to quit rather than throwing even more money after it rage-melding? >.<

I tend to just keep buying materia until I succeed, which is a terrible habit.

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Originally Posted by giantslayer

Last night I literally failed 34 attempts in a row to meld a level 3 materia to the fourth slot of my secondary tool, at an 11% success rate.
I then tried my luck on another meld at 35%, failed 6 in a row, and decided it was a bad night to do melds.

If I remember my statistics right, the mathematical probability of an event with an 89% chance happening 34 times in a row is 1.9%.
Probability of 65% failure triggering 6 times in a row is 7.5%.
Probability of both happening consecutively is 0.14%.

Yeah, really bad luck. For the record, up until that point, I've had what felt like a relatively fair distribution of successes and failures, but over a million gil worth of materia went down the toilet last night. The worst part is I didn't do that many failures before getting a success. I walked away from those melds with nothing to show for it.

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Something I learn from other person the other day:

"Statistic means nothing for individual"

Even if you have like 80% chance, it could take away dozens of tries. That's how bad RNG is. lol

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Originally Posted by BobbinT

Something I learn from other person the other day:

"Statistic means nothing for individual"

Even if you have like 80% chance, it could take away dozens of tries. That's how bad RNG is. lol

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Thats called the law of large numbers, the larger you sample size the more accurate the percentage becomes. If you synth 100 ingots with a 1% hq rate and get 0 hqs its back luck. If you make 10k brass ingots though you should get around 100 of them.

I've failed 14 times in a row on a 40% chance.

I've also failed 49 times in a row on an 11% chance.

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Originally Posted by Kos_Mos

Thats called the law of large numbers, the larger you sample size the more accurate the percentage becomes. If you synth 100 ingots with a 1% hq rate and get 0 hqs its back luck. If you make 10k brass ingots though you should get around 100 of them.

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Haha... sorry though. Even if it says 5% chances, which should mean you get one out of 20 tries, it still could mess you up beyond said chances. As what @scarebearz just posted, his/her failure are way below 11% and more like 2% roughly. Whenever you trigger another chance (or bet), it won't go up like 2/20 -> 3/20 -> and so on, it will always be 1/20 chances.

I understand about your large samples theory, since I made my thesis about data mining for those. It needs to be repeated for same quantity though. And still... in the end, it just doesn't matter for individual. Good if you get result on said chances or better, but be prepared when it goes worse than you think.

12 times in a row so far on 35% chance :( and still haven't done it as I ran out of gil to buy any more materia.

During my Holidays, I spent two days with spirit bonding and in the end, I had about 160 Materia II-IV to insert. 45% chance, 19% chance, 11% chance, 7% chance. From the 160 I used, was able to insert FIVE Materia to improve my DOH. The rest, worth several millions of GIL, were destroyed. Plus the mats (and shards) I had to gather to craft the 160 items in HQ. The chances for overmelding are a joke especially when you need to heavily overmeld in order to craft 3 star recpipes.

Dunno about that. What we have now are IMO a huge relieve compared to the horror of previous version. Imagine back then after doing dozens of skirmish battles and finally gotten your own giantsgall weapon, then... for only 2nd meld, it shatters, and literally all of it, including the weapon. Now you must farm skirmish again to get it, and do the whole process again.

Or that pre-relic weapon like Astrolabe/Samga/etc which need to have it double melded to proceed to the next quest steps. Not only one of main material came from Hamlet, it only came from specific Hamlet region. And to make it worse, that Hamlet region need to gain at least silver rank to make the materials available for sale (bronze or lower will omit them from sale list), or gold to have 50% discount. Ppl used to hoard these and sell to market for crazy prices, and even so... the demand still quite high, making it could be unavailable for some time. And the cycle between Hamlet region are 1 or 1.5 day real time. And after all the struggle, you still have to make the weapon into HQ version which is what relic quest required. Then at the very last, you try your chance double melding them. It was quite emotional when the double meld fails, forcing ppl to start over again. Or worse, you could quit this maddening quest at all. XD

And the spiritbonding itself? I recall back then it was like twice the effort you need than we have on current version.

If you see someone strolling around with their pentameld, they could be considered a very special player. And I don't mean that lower tier crap either.

Now, in this version, you don't break your gear/weapon when your overmelding failed. And players have been given steady income in form of roulletes/challenge log/etc. Oh... and the relic quest? Now all pre-relic weps are double meld-free. I know majority didn't play 1.0, but for some of us who experience those horrors, this came as huuuuge relief. I break hundreds of materia and it doesn't really felt that hurt. lol

But then again, I do feel your pain if I think of ARR as my 1st MMO. ^^

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Originally Posted by BobbinT

Dunno about that. What we have now are IMO a huge relieve compared to the horror of previous version. Imagine back then after doing dozens of skirmish battles and finally gotten your own giantsgall weapon, then... for only 2nd meld, it shatters, and literally all of it, including the weapon. Now you must farm skirmish again to get it, and do the whole process again.

Or that pre-relic weapon like Astrolabe/Samga/etc which need to have it double melded to proceed to the next quest steps. Not only one of main material came from Hamlet, it only came from specific Hamlet region. And to make it worse, that Hamlet region need to gain at least silver rank to make the materials available for sale (bronze or lower will omit them from sale list), or gold to have 50% discount. Ppl used to hoard these and sell to market for crazy prices, and even so... the demand still quite high, making it could be unavailable for some time. And the cycle between Hamlet region are 1 or 1.5 day real time. And after all the struggle, you still have to make the weapon into HQ version which is what relic quest required. Then at the very last, you try your chance double melding them. It was quite emotional when the double meld fails, forcing ppl to start over again. Or worse, you could quit this maddening quest at all. XD

And the spiritbonding itself? I recall back then it was like twice the effort you need than we have on current version.

If you see someone strolling around with their pentameld, they could be considered a very special player. And I don't mean that lower tier crap either.

Now, in this version, you don't break your gear/weapon when your overmelding failed. And players have been given steady income in form of roulletes/challenge log/etc. Oh... and the relic quest? Now all pre-relic weps are double meld-free. I know majority didn't play 1.0, but for some of us who experience those horrors, this came as huuuuge relief. I break hundreds of materia and it doesn't really felt that hurt. lol

But then again, I do feel your pain if I think of ARR as my 1st MMO. ^^

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome

Since I posted my poor luck previously, I feel I should inform everyone that the universe has balanced itself out: last night I got my 11% meld and the following 7% meld in about 6 total tries for both. I also had reasonable luck on my other melds I did last night.

still going on my 35% one, did two more after making a bit of gil and both failed o_O 35% is 1 in 3 chance RNG must really really hate me.

I failed to harvest Spruce Logs once, at a 97% success rate, FOUR SWINGS IN A ROW. First one connected, then 4 thuds back to back.

XIVs RNG is crap. I like crafting, but that just sucks.