Butthurt about Moral

#1 I'm butthurt about moral not working in Frontlines.
#2 Because of frontlines no one does arenas anymore.
#3 Because of both #1 and #2 wolf marks and PVP gear are 100% worthless in the game.

S.E. Please change your stance on moral in Frontlines. It makes no sense at all why PVP gear does not work in 50% of your game's PVP content.

That is all.

1. SE intends to increased PvP population, take out morale is a wise decision. No one would enjoy to be an easy prey in front of already geared player.
2. Frontline is not the reason why WD dies, it is probably you and most of high rank and geared player. We still remember how all new players are mistreated. They were told that they should not do lvl 50 because they have no morale.
3. Because of #2, lvl 40 becomes more popular than lvl 50, don't blame SE for taking side with the majority.

No morale is better, everyone starts equal, it is you skill that matters.

Your argument is weak. Having only 4-5 people per alliance being geared is not going to affect the outcome of the battle. It's more unfair that SE has nullified the PVP gear that PVPers worked so hard for before PVP was popular. Also, because frontlines rewards so many wolf marks it would be no time at all before other players are geared and it would balance out over time. It's really unfair how they have done this...... To add to this its almost the equivalent of saying "Oh you know all that gear you got in Sashtasha....... yeahhh those stats don't work in Halatali, sorry But you can use your pvp gear in this dungeon!"

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Originally Posted by Divinemight

2. Frontline is not the reason why WD dies, it is probably you and most of high rank and geared player. We still remember how all new players are mistreated. They were told that they should not do lvl 50 because they have no morale.
3. Because of #2, lvl 40 becomes more popular than lvl 50, don't blame SE for taking side with the majority.

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Yes, it is. Even level 40 WD is barren, atm. WD queue times have SKYROCKETED ever since FL came out, starting the day FL came out, and lasting until this very second. FL killed WD, for now. I suspect that WD queues will settle down a bit once the "Oh! NEWNESS!" phase of FL dies down.

@OP - They said in the latest FFXIV developer Q&A interview that they intend to fixing PvP gear soon-ish. No details on what they have planned, though. They just said that they heard us, understand out concerns, and intend to do something about it. They also said that they do not intend to just replace Morale with another stat. Personally, I'm interested in how they'll handle this, because it will be a determining factor in the future of this game's PvP.

I won't hold my breath for it. It is probably changing such that morale = determination in PVE.

That or morale enabled frontlines, another instance. Which should be very welcomed when it arrives, only to be completely barren in 2 weeks.

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Originally Posted by Divinemight

1. SE intends to increased PvP population, take out morale is a wise decision. No one would enjoy to be an easy prey in front of already geared player.

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I feel A LOT more people would pvp if there was meaningful gear progression.

I stated this as well, same as op. My idea is by the time 2.35 comes out all these "new pvpers" will have enough pvp xp and wolf seals to buy morale pvp gear so why not in 2.35 or 2.4 allow morale gear to be used in frontlines. Even with winning and dying a lot if the person is serious about pvp they will grind it out till they get that pvp gear as well... Thats how pvp is suppose to work, if it has pvp gear progression, it gives a purpose of doing it and gaining that gear.

They have thus far relegated PVP gear to VANITY gear which is not the point of having a pvp gear progression system. Most people that love to do pvp generally love the style like Frontlines/AV or any of the others, I am hoping for a Capture the Flag version in the future. The friends I know that do Arena style pvp are hardcore pvpers and there is season competition to be top team for the season (which isn't in this games Arenas yet) So they need to make pvp and the WD venders have a purpose so they should enable morale in a future patch, not just change how the pvp stats work.

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Originally Posted by Vandril

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I agree with your point about WD, to a point. Just adding on however that WD is barren because the rewards are not worth the effort compared to frontlines. Win or lose in frontlines, you get a fair amount of exp/wolf marks. There are also mount rewards and titles to be gain. If the devs are looking to fix WD, they'll first have to adjust the rewards to be worth it, that way people will actually que up for it.

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Originally Posted by Xmbei

They have thus far relegated PVP gear to VANITY gear which is not the point of having a pvp gear progression system.

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And it's ugly on top of that.

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Originally Posted by Vandril

Yes, it is. Even level 40 WD is barren, atm. WD queue times have SKYROCKETED ever since FL came out, starting the day FL came out, and lasting until this very second. FL killed WD, for now. I suspect that WD queues will settle down a bit once the "Oh! NEWNESS!" phase of FL dies down.

@OP - They said in the latest FFXIV developer Q&A interview that they intend to fixing PvP gear soon-ish. No details on what they have planned, though. They just said that they heard us, understand out concerns, and intend to do something about it. They also said that they do not intend to just replace Morale with another stat. Personally, I'm interested in how they'll handle this, because it will be a determining factor in the future of this game's PvP.

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I agree to you brother and very well said. Also, Since the Morale has been taken out of Frontline then all of the PvP items have become a "Decoration" or should I say "Just for the sake of Glamour"

I'm quite hurt too. I spent a lot of time in wolfsden ever since i hit level 30, to be able to get a lot of wolfmarks so i can buy a PvP gear.
So i got 50 and a new patch came in.. i bought my pvp gear except the accesories and thought i will go to frontlines, but people started telling me that my gear is worthless. well i still find it better than level 45 gear.. but i had no idea i need to progress so far with main story in order to be able to gear up better. and to do so much PvE. in the end this is a PvE game sigh.

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Originally Posted by Danbo05

I agree with your point about WD, to a point. Just adding on however that WD is barren because the rewards are not worth the effort compared to frontlines. Win or lose in frontlines, you get a fair amount of exp/wolf marks. There are also mount rewards and titles to be gain. If the devs are looking to fix WD, they'll first have to adjust the rewards to be worth it, that way people will actually que up for it.

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Are you saying this knowing that WD gives a ton of rewards, now? If WD queues were as fast as FL queues, then WD would give rewards at twice the rate, either losing or winning.

What it won't give are the Tomestones, though, which I think is why people prefer FL as far as rewards go.

Unfortunately I think the vast majority of people who had i90 (and particularly i100) PvP gear ready for Frontline probably win-traded their way there. So that's one reason that they didn't allow PvP gear in Frontline.

From what I've read morale makes a HUGE difference in uncapped PvP, so yeah, you would basically end up with a bunch of juggernauts running around. If they're all in a pre-made party (this would totally happen and you know it), it would be horribly unbalanced. That's not the way to encourage new users to play and stick around in Frontline, and that was their primary goal with this content. Not to have new players go in and get stomped by ultra experienced, ultra geared PvP veterans. They already have enough of an advantage via playing plenty of PvP. They don't need another boost via gear.

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Originally Posted by DonS

I feel A LOT more people would pvp if there was meaningful gear progression.

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No, it wont, you will just get to see a lot more of leechers. Morale is too devstating. It is already witnessed in lvl50 Wolf Den wheregeared players can down those who dont have it in few secs. The gear progression will not lure people to play, this is also witnessed in the lvl50 Wolf Den where que time was always awful longer than lvl40.

As people cant fight back geared players with morale, they will just becomes leechers in the Frontline. (in reference to WoW BGs).

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Originally Posted by tehomegaking

Nonsense. Another person who has no idea about morale telling us again how overpowered it is. Morale was poorly thought out and implemented. PVP gear misses an entire sub stat and is outclassed by 10-15 ilvl's. PVE gears goes up to i 115. The amount of stats you lose by wearing pvp gear is massive.Thus making high end pve gear highly competitive in wolves den. The difference between a legit pre-frontlines r30/40 vs a pve geared player is not gear, it's knowledge and skill.

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Actually no, the 'high end' PvE gear is not competitive at all. High End PvE gear MAYBE beats the i90 PvP gear. A DPS in full i100 PvP is going to oneshot an i110 PvE gear player.

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Originally Posted by Sen_Terrechant

Actually no, the 'high end' PvE gear is not competitive at all. High End PvE gear MAYBE beats the i90 PvP gear. A DPS in full i100 PvP is going to oneshot an i110 PvE gear player.

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LOOOOL say me you never go in arena right ? you are rly a nice joke
I have play 3000 arena and i can say :

the weapons pve 115 > pvp 100
armor pve 110 = pvp 100

CHILL YOUR BEANS

Ok, so it seems everyone skipped the Live letter translation which is also posted in the forum here.

Yoshida specifically answered this question, and he said they are aware of the issue, and already said there will be NO morale in frontline BUT, he understand how PvP gear are inferior in frontline compared to PvE gear and they will address it.

now I know they will probably add more stats so pvp gear becomes the ideal gear in frontline, but I hope they give slight edge in the gear that deals with debuff resists or somthing that doesnt break frontline for causuals.

/end

.......orly?

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Originally Posted by Rin23

LOOOOL say me you never go in arena right ? you are rly a nice joke
I have play 3000 arena and i can say :

the weapons pve 115 > pvp 100
armor pve 110 = pvp 100

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You're wrong PvP i100 is superior than pve 115 it could seem u r good with pve i115 but the difference is that u get more hp with that gear so your hp doesn't drain so fast, but in the end you still get a lot of damage and cannot deal good damage either. But about the weapon I fully agree

It's good they didn't let morale scale because people gimped their way to level 40 leaving people who didn't want to grind their face off way in the dust. To think that only 3-4 people per frontlines match would have tons of morale is dumb, more like, 10-20 wouldn't have that kind of morale. Once frontlines has been out a while and the pvp population scales , then they can reintroduce morale and do it properly, with a leader boards, rankings etc. Wolves den was straight up IMBA and only catered to very few people, especially level 50 matches.

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Originally Posted by Danblog

You're wrong PvP i100 is superior than pve 115 it could seem u r good with pve i115 but the difference is that u get more hp with that gear so your hp doesn't drain so fast, but in the end you still get a lot of damage and cannot deal good damage either. But about the weapon I fully agree

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I speak for a healer when you are full stuff 110 pve you have so much vitality and ur heal is stronger .
Moral don't boost heal so...

Yes because being in WD you already have a clear idea putting someone with pve gear against someone wearing pvp armor. From my past experiences..it's nothing but a massacre and im happy that it's basically useless in frontlines.

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Originally Posted by Divinemight

1. SE intends to increased PvP population, take out morale is a wise decision. No one would enjoy to be an easy prey in front of already geared player.
2. Frontline is not the reason why WD dies, it is probably you and most of high rank and geared player. We still remember how all new players are mistreated. They were told that they should not do lvl 50 because they have no morale.
3. Because of #2, lvl 40 becomes more popular than lvl 50, don't blame SE for taking side with the majority.

No morale is better, everyone starts equal, it is you skill that matters.

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Quoted for Truth /endThread

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Originally Posted by Divinemight

2. Frontline is not the reason why WD dies, it is probably you and most of high rank and geared player. We still remember how all new players are mistreated. They were told that they should not do lvl 50 because they have no morale.
3. Because of #2, lvl 40 becomes more popular than lvl 50, don't blame SE for taking side with the majority.

No morale is better, everyone starts equal, it is you skill that matters.

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Times (should) have changed on #3. WD now has an i80 version of it; one that for some reason I have yet to see even pop...

If they allowed moral in frontlines.... people on every team would at least a few ppl with moral gear.... there is no way you can't say it would be unfair. The fact that these people feel entitled to be "equal" with people who have been pvping longer than them is the problem here. You have not been pvping you should not be equal. They've worked hard and they deserve their moral gear and it SHOULD work. End of story.

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Originally Posted by DividedSky

If they allowed moral in frontlines.... people on every team would at least a few ppl with moral gear.... there is no way you can't say it would be unfair. The fact that these people feel entitled to be "equal" with people who have been pvping longer than them is the problem here. You have not been pvping you should not be equal. They've worked hard and they deserve their moral gear and it SHOULD work. End of story.

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So you're arguing because PvP in Frontlines is created Equal...?

People that "worked" hard for the morale gear was done in Wolves Den(Majority of people who just did Win trading). No work was done at all for Frontlines. These are 2 very different type of PvP Arena's. If you would like benefit for your PvP gear and your Hardwork, it still can be used in Wolves Den. Asking for Gear you acquired through Wolves Den to work in Frontlines is not even the same.

That's like asking for the 100 1st place win Frontline Mount to be able to be achieved in Wolves Den as well. Which is completely out of the question.

They're 2 completely different arenas.

PvP gear can be used in Frontlines, Morale does not work. You want to show off your PvP gear then go ahead. But Morale stat in itself is unbalanced.

Frontline que's are already long as hell 15-45mins. What makes people think there will be more players that actually want to play when they go up against ppl with r40 PvP gears/melds and they only have r20 PvP Gears? They will be killed in 2-3 shots. There's going to be even less people queing up for Frontlines if there's anymore imbalances.

There are sad to see that people completely abandon the arena ...
People think they are getting fucked arena when they do not have a moral gear ... and I regret this loser mentality ... The moral're not so violent as that, and as has mentioned above ... a weapon 115 pve are greater than a 100 pvp ...

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Originally Posted by mooneIV

There are sad to see that people completely abandon the arena ...

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The mentality of jump to the conclusion without read whole thread isn't too great either .....
1. This is about Morale for the Frontline, not about about ilvl 110 PvE vs ilvl 100 PvP
2. WD isn't dead because of morale, lvl40 and lvl30 were very popular
3. Loser mentality? It was the geared players doesn't want fresh player que for lvl50 because they have no morale gear

I have done a lot WD and witnessed many geared players are saying nasty things about the fresh players attempting lvl50 WD. Don't even bother to sugarcoat the morale please.

People piss on too overlooked the moral ...
I redid my first 22 rows in arena because I changed company to play with my friends in front ... and I was not disabled more than that to play with an average pve gear ...
Skill> gear ...

Morale was a stupid idea to begin with. It imbalances the battlefield in favour of a select few, and not even the biggest fool could claim it wasn't a significant advantage. The fact is, if you had no morale, you were cannon fodder.

I do agree that wolf marks are now completely redundant though, so maybe they could address that by adding something people might actually want to purchase besides arena gear.

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Originally Posted by Divinemight

I have done a lot WD and witnessed many geared players are saying nasty things about the fresh players attempting lvl50 WD. Don't even bother to sugarcoat the morale please.

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It's nothing to do with morale. It's about being undergeared. People get told off for coming into 50's on wearing i70 pve gear. Likewise, people get told off for coming in to pvp wearing i50 pvp gear. It's about wearing massively outdated gear, not about lack of morale. No one ever has any complains when you get paired with people wearing i100/i110 pve gear because they are at least adequately geared to compete. No one wants to be paired with someone who is undergeared, as they bring down the whole time.

This topic is just further proof of exactly why morale/materia shouldn't be brought into pvp. And I'm someone who lost millions on materia in my now worthless pvp gear. Everything said in this topic is just ignorance regarding the stat and gears. People don't know any better, and that keeps them out of pvp. That is counter-productive to pvp. There should not be a fear of competing in pvp due to an auto-handicap... regardless if it's an exaggerated perception or not. If you like pvp, you like pvp to be active. A perceived handicap being the common consensus of the casual pvp'r ensures that it won't be active. Therefore, keeping any form of advantage be it more.. ilvl, materia or morale should be eliminated. i80 is perfect for balance and ensures people don't shy away from FL as they know they can compete.