Ideas On How To Stop Fairy Pulling Dreadnaught In T8

Hi All

Currently working on T8 and I have a problem with my fairy pulling the dreadnaught away from the MT (PLD).

The MT is positioned SE and the rest of the raids opposite him NW. The dreadnaught will spawn, it will run to the MT and then it will turn around and swipe Eos. Eos will then cure herself which makes matters worse and then the Dreadnaugh cleaves us all.

At the spawn time I have stopped healing and the WHM is taking care of the Esuna for the debuff. I have also no wispering dawn up but if the boss drops the tanks HP down Eos will unhelpfully auto-cure the tank and then the Dreadnaught wipe us.

At this time the tank is using the following sequence of actions to acquire hate on the dreadnaught. Provoke -> Shield Lob -> Shield Lob. I am told he uses Provoke first because he is out of range for Shield Lob.

Currently we have 2 ranged triggering the Dreadnaugh tower at a random time but I suspect there is a better time to put 2 into the tower to start the long trigger of the Dreadnaught as we seem to be getting a Dreadnaught straight after a lazer.

What do you think guys, any suggestions or are we doing anything really wrong?

Judging by what you're saying, your tank isn't doing enough to solidify hate. I'd suggest an un-comboed Savage Blade or RoH when the dread reaches the MT before trying to do the full hate combo. While it doesn't get the damage or enmity boost, it's still a bit of hate to make up for what you can't make with Fast Blade.

Usually in my group it's our BLM that pulls the dread too early if at all with some Fire 1/starter crits so I can't really speak for why the fairy of all things is doing it (besides the tank under performing)

This is a tank issue. If your fairy didn't pull hate with an embrace your dps will. However, I'm confused on your group's healing strat here. Both you and the WHM stop all heals as dread spawns, give the tank a moment to grab dread then cure bomb to bring him back up? I assume regen drops off as well? I refresh regen just before dread spawn, esuna the dot then heal as usual. Our SCH continues healing throughout as well. If the towers are timed properly our tank is able to secure hate fine. (WAR MT)

For high aggro your tank should provoke >shield lob x2 >circle of scorn >RoH combo. If tank is still having issues securing hate they will need to load fight or flight first. Your group will need to time the dread spawn so there's enough time do this rotation before brainjack. You'll time it by having 2 people run into the dread tower immediately as it comes online.

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Originally Posted by PetiteMalFleur

However, I'm confused on your group's healing strat here. Both you and the WHM stop all heals as dread spawns, give the tank a moment to grab dread then cure bomb to bring him back up?

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Yes, we cure him to max (or as high as possible) and then the lazer lands, we esuna it off and almost at exactly the same time the DN spawns. We stop healing at this time and pray the tank doesn't die before he secures hate and we can cast again.

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Originally Posted by PetiteMalFleur

I assume regen drops off as well?

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We don't put it on prior to a dreadnaught popping, we have had issues in the past where the WHM would just die if regen was put on before tanks secured hate on newly spawned adds.

Regen emnity shouldn't be that much of an issue with this being a single target add. If you're having to let regen drop off and stop all heals I'd be praying hard he doesn't get crit. I'd also be concerned the sudden heal bombs would pull hate with aggro being so tenuous to begin with.

Is the tank able to reach the dread at its spawn point or does he wait until it starts moving to provoke it? You could try repositioning so the tank is south, the raid stacks NE or NW (depending if he is helping push towers) and place your fairy on the other corner. He should be able to step into avatar's hit box and provoke the dread at its spawn without turning the boss. It is max range for provoke but he can reach it.

There's also been some mention of tanks having aggro issues after deaths due to a possible bug with shield oath/defiance. Try having him turn off then on oath to make sure it is activated properly.

I assume you are single tanking it? You could try two tanks unless your dead set on single tanking it.

He must use shieldlob first, then can provoke for safty and do another shield lob, the Dreadnaught is NOT out of range for a shield lob. The Tank just moves right under the boss to be in range. Even if he moves a step to far and the boss turns for 0.2 seconds, it doesnt matter.

There are a few misunderstandings here on how Provoke works, so I'm going to try to help clear that up.

First off, Provoke is not good for pulling. Provoke works like such: Your Threat = Highest Member's Threat + 1. So then, how much threat do you have if you use Provoke on a freshly spawned Dreadnaught that hasn't aggroed somebody? 1 (technically higher because of any heals or such). A single tick of a heal over time will yank that Dreadnaught right off you.

Second, because Provoke does not increase your threat but instead match your threat to the highest member's threat, using abilities prior to Provoke is pointless. Here is an example of what I mean.

Scenario 1: The player with the highest threat has 4000 threat. The tank uses 5 abilities, generating 3500 threat, and then uses Provoke. He now has 4001 threat.

Scenario 2: The player with the highest threat has 4000 threat. The tank uses Provoke. He now has 4001 threat.

This is more than likely the reason for your tank having problems picking up the Dreadnaught. What you want is for prepare a Halone for when the Dreadnaught spawns.

With the tank south of the dread it is out of range for shield lob at its spawn so the tank must open with provoke. I'm aware it is suboptimal for pulling but it must be used in this situation due to range. This is a tough pull but it's manageable and expected for the tank to secure hate this way.

With the dread heading through the raid before reaching the tank prepping RoH and waiting (or waiting to lob) will allow the dread to cleave everyone before the tank can pick it up.

I haven't downed T8 yet but our WAR tank pulling with provoke then using tomahawk followed by his BB combo works roughly the same and we have no issue with this mechanic now.

Here is an entire thread on this and they all open the same way. Provoke >shield lob x2 >circle of scorn >RoH
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...rate-more-hate

always try saving halone for dread

I've never had an issue doing 2 shield lobs to get it over and have that secure initial hate even with healers doing healer things and the fairy doing fairy things. The second lob tends to hit just as it stops almost in front of me but not quite to do its first swipe. If my gcd is refreshed while it's still doing its swipe, I'll run over a few steps to get off the fast blade to start the combo just so there's no downtime in the hate build.

Might be obvious but I haven't seen it mentioned... is Eos casting Whispering Dawn prior to the dread spawn, either because you're telling her to or because she's on autocast and she wants to heal people up after Gaseous Bomb?

A single Embrace won't pull aggro off of a tank if they Shield Lob/Tomahawk the dread. Nor will a tick of Regen or a non-crit Cure/Physick. But if Whispering Dawn ticks when the dread spawns, that's gonna be a couple thousand enmity on the fairy instantly.

Thanks for all the replies, it is resolved now.

Solution that works for us is to position the fairy between the MT and the DN spawn point. The fairy is out of lazer range and even though it still gets hit it doesn't cleave the raid and is in range of the PLDs RoH.

Last two days I was many hours in T8. Enough time to make my thoughts to this issue.

My actual solution is to top the whole parties life before DN spawns. Then get an Adlo up to the tank right after the laser followed by dispelling the dot. Then I do Eye for Eye on tank and virus on Avatar. Now tank can safely provoke and build up his emnity before fairy start to do anything.

I'm a bit puzzled by the difficulty the spawn seems to pose for your group. With the strategy I'm using while tanking, Medica II, regen and whispering dawn are usually up for the first dread and it poses no problem. The key is to understand that a super early provoke will do no good as it won't force the dread to move towards you right away. Rather, you want to wait until just before it moves so you're on the even field with healers when you do your first shield lob and you make sure that the dread is running towards you. I'm also puzzled by the lack of Spirits Within which, at 300 potency, is quite an interesting ability for early enmity.

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Originally Posted by Nagusto

Rather, you want to wait until just before it moves so you're on the even field with healers when you do your first shield lob and you make sure that the dread is running towards you.

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I believe an early enough provoke will cause the dread to queue up an attack against you. You're probably right that timing is key though. I notice that if our MT is just a half second late the dead will start with an autoattack on a healer before paying attention to the tank. Not something to cause a wipe; just makes me sit up a little straighter. The following attack is the frontal cleave. If this is happening the MT is letting the dread queue a second attack or just not doing enough to secure hate after provoke.

Speaking as a tank who actually had same/similar problem I can say definitively: This is a tank problem.

You should not lead with Provoke. It might seem like is out of range of Shield Lob/Tomahawk, but it is not. The direction of tank in relation to the boss doesn't matter, you just need to stand very very close to the center of the boss.

The sequence I settled on as a Warrior was (optional Berserk) > Tomahawk > (def cooldowns) > Heavy Swing > Brutal Swing + cooldown > combo'd Skull Sunder > combo'd Butcher's Block. Beyond that it's locked to tank. PLD equivalent I guess would be (optional Fight or Flight) > Shield Lob > (def cooldowns) > Fast Blade > CoS/Spirits Within > combo'd Savage Blade > combo'd Rage of Halone. STR potion instead of Berserk/FoF if you're desperate.

Not guaranteed that the above is completely optimal, but definitely it beats the heck out of Provoke > Shield Lob > Shield Lob.

i use provoke to tag the dreadnaught the instant it spawns and shield lob immediately so the method works, you should get solid enough hate with shield lob. If that's not enough then save one off GCD skill (ie: Circle of Scorn or Spirit Within) for snap hate.

there are times that the dread will turn around for a split second while its moving towards me but it's all right, keep at it and you should be fine.