Do PvP on the primal cluster, and have ran into a specific team of WHM WHM DRG (4th seems to change often) many times who represent the adders. They have always seemed very good, using LoS and teamwork, but something concerned me finally.
A team of 12 couldn't kill one of their whms with it pure-focused in a recent match where I was on the Maelstrom side. Reminder: there is only 4 of them present. The HP never seemed to fall below 90%. I decided to isolate who they could be (the team would have to be from the same server) and inspected the after battle results. I was able to isolate who it could be based on server, and then noticed something very peculiar.
Most healers cure 20k-50k HP. Sometimes I see up to 80k cured.
These two healers each have a regular habit of curing over 200k HP in a match. Somehow, they are also never getting interrupted while doing it. I have screenshots of an after battle result with 161k and 235k from the pair, which I can scrub and post here to hide identity.
Does this sound like an exploit or am I being ignorant? I understand cures and healers are always very powerful defensively in Frontlines (they are) and a healer can assuredly tank DPS if they want to (they do). But survivng an onslaught of a 12 man wave, 9 of which were DPS, made me look at things closer. Its not the 90% evade ability, they quite literally never get interrupted, and how are they pulling enough MP to cure over 235k HP per 13-ish minute match, when there's no ballad or manasong supporting them?
I have witnessed this team 4-man claim Sun Temple (thats the opposite point from Adders) and hold it vs a combined assault from Flames and Maelstrom who were not touching anyone but the adders to remove them. They won and slew all the flames and maelstrom.
Has anyone else seen something similar, or has some input to this? I would appreciate better responses than "u mad". I've already admitted they have genuine skill aside from this suspect exploit. Are they /really/ that good? Maybe, I don't know. Help me figure this out.
Possible Cure/Non Interrupt exploit?
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07-13-2014, 07:26 PMDashutoPossible Cure/Non Interrupt exploit?
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07-13-2014, 07:41 PMSeleneVenizelos
It's difficult to call this.
I have been in a four man healer team defending the temple. We survived an onslaught of fifteen people without a death. We even survived a direct Skyshard to the face. Healers camping a flag is a very potent defense, but it's as much to do with people not knowing the correct procedure for downing a healer as healers just being invincible in a group. Unless I am interpreting your post wrong, a group of twelve would take a long time to kill a healer with other healers present, by which time they're usually dead from the non-healers lurking around.
Four healers defending a flag really is potent though. Don't underestimate just how much. They're nearly invincible without excellent coordination when attacking so that you keep all four attacked and occupied. If they can keep Stoneskin and Succor up the whole time you're hitting them they can cast with impunity and it might seem like they're not being interrupted, but of course they wouldn't be if everyone is hitting for zero.
There certainly is an element of suspicion to what you describe though. Like I said, it's hard to call. If the players are good and there's four of them I see no reason why it's not possible, but to repeat that level of performance every fight seems highly unlikely. Different opponents, different tactics. Have you encountered them more than once?
Next time, try getting someone to Braver one of them. That's a quick way of getting rid of one. ;) -
07-13-2014, 07:49 PMDashutoMy math is horrible, but suppose someone was spamming Cure II alone an entire match: that would be 40,000 MP for them to cure 235k (Please keep in mind, 80 cap). For Medica II that would be 80,000+ MP. I think the first thing to look at may be: how are they getting the MP to cure this much? Even with abilities? I can attest there is not a bard supporting them with its PVP ability, nor are they using return as I've seen them at 0 deaths. (Does return restore mp?)Quote:
Originally Posted by SeleneVenizelos
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07-13-2014, 07:52 PMSeleneVenizelos
MP regens pretty quickly outside of battle. The MP consumption isn't really an issue. Say they burn through all of their MP on an attack. Within what... fifteen seconds? they're full again.
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07-13-2014, 07:54 PMDashutoSuppose they /aren't/ out of battle 90% of the time, which is the case. I know you have only my word to go on here, but please entertain the thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by SeleneVenizelos
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07-13-2014, 07:59 PMSeleneVenizelos
I can't entertain something that doesn't happen. Somebody defending a flag is not in battle 50% of the time, let alone 90%. Also, just because there are hostiles in the area it doesn't mean they're in battle. My MP can still Regen at the quickest rate even with people around me fighting until either myself or Eos heals somebody or somebody attacks me.
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07-13-2014, 08:08 PMDashutoA common tactic of theirs is to come from adder side to Sun Temple. They try to remain and hold sun temple the entire match. During this time they are under near constant assault from both the Flames and Maelstrom. If you've been touched by someone in battle and they're within range of you, say behind a wall, then it will still affect MP to my understanding. This is also how people are killing by leaping off Mid when previously engaged, same concept.Quote:
Originally Posted by SeleneVenizelos
I have been that bard behind the wall watching them, with a flaming arrow underneath their point. That's the point here, you believe its not happening because you are telling yourself "but thats not possible" I am of this same opinion. Except that I am there to see it and say "that shouldn't be possible".
This is why I made the topic, there is something very off with how much they are curing, how much they are managing to tank, and how long they are engaged. I would like to point out they are White Mages, and if there is an exploit of some sort, it may be white-mage specific. -
07-13-2014, 08:09 PMSeleneVenizelos
No, I'm not saying what you're implying is impossible. What I'm saying is you aren't engaged 90% of the time. That's not possible. For all you know they could sit there in downtime spamming Cure 2 on themselves to get their heal rating up. I've seen people do it.
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07-13-2014, 08:16 PMDashutoI have tried to address this to you in my post, though I recently edited it. I would like to again press upon you that they are being attacked by /both/ the Flames and Maelstrom almost the entire time. I have personally been in Maelstrom Team C to witness it through the entire match twice now. The entire southeast side of Frontlines basically becomes a vengeance mission to remove the team of 4 adders from that point. I cannot press this at you enough. It gets to the point that Flames and Maels dont target each other. Or at least attempt not to. This is the situation that threw me into checking what was going on.Quote:
Originally Posted by SeleneVenizelos
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07-13-2014, 09:48 PMDarkoon
Really? Only 200k healing?
http://imgur.com/ODszQlx
I have done as high as 520k healing on a really long duartion fight. It's called, smart use of cooldowns and having healers to back you up so you can heal for longer. And no, it's not an exploit or a bug, Healers have 3 seperate cooldowns to use while they are being attacked, Surecast, Swiftcast and Equanimity. Pare that with line of sight or simply casting in between attacks, especially easy if only a BLM is targeting you since they have the same cast time. -
07-13-2014, 09:59 PMtehomegakingJust saying.. I usually top 200k heals a game and I'm pretty new to healer, though very experienced in overall ff 14 pvp. 200k heals is in no way suspect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dashuto
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07-14-2014, 07:56 AMPhenidate
My friend racks up over 200k healing very easily. Medica II plays a big part of it, from what he says.
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07-14-2014, 03:52 PMCeveArthuA healer can easily do 80k healing in 4 mins in wolves den, if healers are only healing 20k in 15 mins then something is horribly wrong with them, in the 18 FL matches i've done i've healed between 180k-420kQuote:
Originally Posted by Dashuto
Also, if a 4 man team can kill a combined assault, then one of four things are happening:
1: The combined force has zero dps and zero healers, probably a force of botanists
2: the combined force is stupid enough to not stand on the flag, if you have 5 people on the flag then the 4 man team cannot capture a point, ever
3: you are on a ps3 and might have an issue with rendering the rest of the team
4: you are lying -
07-15-2014, 09:02 AMRin23
I play sch and i do 200k heal and more ... and we don't see eos heal + shield of sch ... so 200k for a whm is not rly much x)
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07-15-2014, 09:28 AMBaneus
Also: Freecure/Overcure procs.
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07-15-2014, 09:51 AMAdamantium^Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkoon
I've started playing WHM in Frontlines because they're essentially juggernauts. Keeping Medica II up on your entire group while kiting 5 players around is very possible and something I do almost every match. Throw in 30 seconds of Sacred Prism and 15 seconds of Equanimity and you have ridiculous damage reduction and the only way to have your casts interrupted is through dedicated silences. It honestly just sounds like you ran into some really good players.