FFXIV: Cheat 2 Win - The New Norm?

When FFXIV 2.0 started, a number of people used farming bots, that warped from group-to-group of sheep in coerthas. Even with 100s of people reporting them, they never seemed to get banned.

With PvP a number of people used PvP bots for SIX MONTHS + with no bans. Literally these people would leave the bot running 24/7, having it enter pvp matches and then either auto-target the healer, the closest target, run into a wall, or stand around and do nothing.
On the other hand, others used win-trading (an obvious violation of the intended system, but accepted by SE) to quickly level up in pvp and get the i100 gear.

Now a HUGE amount of people are using a third party app that lets you wide-scan areas to quickly find Hunt mobs. And an even larger number of people are joining their parties to get easy and quick access to hunts. Without anyway to see third party apps in use, they will continue to be able to do this as long as they keep their mouths shut and don't post screenshots.

Over the past year, this game has been exploited over, and over, and over, and over again. With the exploiters often joking about it and bragging that the GMs in the game don't do anything.

Honestly this is becoming very disconcerting. When large numbers of people cheat to get ahead, it ruins the game for those who don't want to cheat.

However, the developers of this game consistently seem to implement content that PROMOTES CHEATING.

It is incredibly unfair that the players who care enough about this game -not- to ruin it for others, end up getting screwed over and over and over again. Whether it's the PVPer who spent a month grinding instead of a few days, the hunter trying to find mobs legitimately, or the individual trying to make some gil to buy a cute new rug for their house.

While it's understandable that some cheating will always occur, this game not only allows it, but does not respond when it is blatantly occurring.

I've played about 20 mmos, both F2P and P2P, and I have never seen the level of blatant cheating as this game has. People on this forum actually debate the merits of exploiting the system or using third party tools.

Something should be done, so that the people who want to legitimately experience this great game can do so, without having to devote countless hours of aggravation due to other's actions.

I think it all comes down to money. SE can't afford to lose thousands of paying customers (literally) so they turn a blind eye.

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Originally Posted by Halisstra

I think it all comes down to money. SE can't afford to lose thousands of paying customers (literally) so they turn a blind eye.

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LM-17, FFXI, your move.

Make hunts appear on map so all have same chance, however this will become a race of who gets there first but at least is on equal grounds.

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Originally Posted by ValkyrieL

Make hunts appear on map so all have same chance, however this will become a race of who gets there first but at least is on equal grounds.

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This would still yield the same result we are currently seeing. ^^;

What I don't understand, is why it's sooooooo important for these people to "win" to the point that they feel the need to exploit through third party software.
I mean... it's just a game, right?
Competition in hunts and pvp is part of the game. So really, what will they do when they have everything by doing nothing then have nothing left to do.

My brain is frazzled but I know what I'm trying to say >.<

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Originally Posted by Ephany

I mean... it's just a game, right?

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Cheaters and trolls will use this against you as a counter-counter point sadly. It's annoying.

How's about we actually give the Devs time to address this. Because an exploit like this will most likely not only need mass bans, but also a update that will "break " the app.

So how's 'bout we all calm down, and not act like "Oh woe! Nothing will EVER get done about this!" after 4 freakin' days.

Would like to mention that while Win trading was "allowed", Yoshida mentioned in an interview that Win trading has become reportable. At the sametime they punished us for people win trading by removing Morale and adding the i80 sync to Frontlines. That PvP gear is useless when it comes to everything except Glamour and Wolf's den

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Originally Posted by Pandastirfry

How's about we actually give the Devs time to address this. Because an exploit like this will most likely not only need mass bans, but also a update that will "break " the app.

So how's 'bout we all calm down, and not act like "Oh woe! Nothing will EVER get done about this!" after 4 freakin' days.

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After what happened with 1.0, I'm surprised this hasn't happened sooner.

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Originally Posted by Pandastirfry

How's about we actually give the Devs time to address this. Because an exploit like this will most likely not only need mass bans, but also a update that will "break " the app.

So how's 'bout we all calm down, and not act like "Oh woe! Nothing will EVER get done about this!" after 4 freakin' days.

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The point here is people exploited things -before- hunts and SE did nothing about it.
If this was the first time people were openly cheating in an obvious matter I think it would make sense to give SE time to fix the problem

But this is just another exploit in a list of exploits over the passed year that have gone unaddressed.

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Originally Posted by Azurymber

The point here is people exploited things -before- hunts and SE did nothing about it.
If this was the first time people were openly cheating in an obvious matter I think it would make sense to give SE time to fix the problem

But this is just another exploit in a list of exploits over the passed year that have gone unaddressed.

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SE did do something about it, Just because they didn't send you an personal email saying what was done, doesn't equate to inaction.
Third party apps evolve just like the game does, each time something like this happens,, The devs need time to figure out who is truly using it, and how it interacts with the game code, so it can be effectively "broken" before anything can be "done". And after they do that....the app will evolve again.

You would think after they way things went in 1.0...XI 1.0 that everyone would have known that this was the inevitable end result of this, But a insistent group kept whining for roaming NMs.... Well, the inevitable has happened and now the Devs need to figure out how to "fix" it...at least for a few weeks before we're right back to square one. just like with the bots and other nonsense. So calm down, you're not going to see some massive, impressive action after FOUR DAYS

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Originally Posted by Pandastirfry

SE did do something about it, Just because they didn't send you an personal email saying what was done, doesn't equate to inaction.
Third party apps evolve just like the game does, each time something like this happens,, The devs need time to figure out who is truly using it, and how it interacts with the game code, so it can be effectively "broken" before anything can be "done". And after they do that....the app will evolve again.
You would think after they way things went in 1.0...XI 1.0 that everyone would have known that this was the inevitable end result of this, But a insistent group kept whining for roaming NMs.... Well, the inevitable has happened and now the Devs need to figure out how to "fix" it...at least for a few weeks before we're right back to square one. just like with the bots and other nonsense.

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I farmed in coerthas for weeks. same warp bot was always there. ppl shouting every day about reporting them
I did over 2300 wolf's den pvp matches, same 2 or 3 botters always on 24/7 botting for over a month at minimum (from what i was told they were there months before). half the time not even fighting, just running straight into a wall
I posted 4 threads with 100s of hits about win-trading. No response for months (apparently yoshi eventually said it was reportable). I have screenshots of entire LS's on my server specifically for win trading, with screen shots of ppl admitting doing it. none of them were ever banned.

I'm sorry but it's beyond obvious that SE has -not- done anything serious about this stuff

By the time devs "fix" it, all the people cheating will have maxed out their gear with marks. And will no longer be using the third party apps. Since you can't tell if people are using third party apps (at least that's what has been suggested in interviews) no one will get banned.
And thus, cheat 2 win.

Back before the patch went live, the way Hunts were presented was basically an open world activity that would have you track down monsters of different strenght (rank). From my understanding, it was explained that lower rank monsters would have a daily reset whereas the top tier hunts would be behind a weekly reset. It was also explained that hunts wouldn't be the same, meaning you could receive a different target from your friend, which seemed cool as you could benefit from your friend's hunt for seals, or in the case it was player specific (like Alex maps), it would at least encourage more party content, like Alex and Peisteskin map parties.
For anyone who's been playing this game for more than two months and have gotten a taste of the behavior of it's population, if one didn't see this coming with unlimited hunting, you'd be blind. Here's to hoping for a big lockout or restriction so that all players get a chance at it. This also speaks real bad for future open world content (except forced popped stuff) and why it would be a real bad idea to consider for important/progression stuff.

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Originally Posted by Ephany

What I don't understand, is why it's sooooooo important for these people to "win" to the point that they feel the need to exploit through third party software.
I mean... it's just a game, right?
Competition in hunts and pvp is part of the game. So really, what will they do when they have everything by doing nothing then have nothing left to do.

My brain is frazzled but I know what I'm trying to say >.<

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I don't think all third party apps are cheats necessarily. Boss mods that help teach new players about certain boss encounters generally make the community a happier place simply due to less of their time taken up by wiping.

Also, open world content is always a tricky issue. Technically, there is a race condition involved. Even if I tell the whole zone where the target monster is and ask for others to wait, their will be some individual that will begin attacking it, causing others to do the same in a social chain reaction. However, there are a ton of considerate individuals who do make a genuine effort to wait for others.

I think they just need to make the hunts elite bosses that can wipe the floor with a single person and the problem should go away.

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Originally Posted by ZanzhizExaverion

LM-17, FFXI, your move.

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Eh, Tanaka isn't in charge anymore, Tanaka gave out suspensions during 1.0 launch because people abused a "skill up" glitch where they leveled faster than intended.

That's not to say Yoshida won't do anything but he is definitely not as heavy handed as Tanaka was.

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Originally Posted by ValkyrieL

Make hunts appear on map so all have same chance, however this will become a race of who gets there first but at least is on equal grounds.

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Then people could have their linkshell buddies stand still for hours in a zone and just post a <pos>. No real hunting would be required at all.

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Originally Posted by Vaer

Eh, Tanaka isn't in charge anymore, Tanaka gave out suspensions during 1.0 launch because people abused a "skill up" glitch where they leveled faster than intended.

That's not to say Yoshida won't do anything but he is definitely not as heavy handed as Tanaka was.

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we kind of went from one end of the spectrum all the way to the other though. But yeah, at least the upside is you don't get banned for something you can do in game without the use of a third party program.

It's really looking like the majority of the GM team has virtually no authority to do anything and those that actually look at cases are very few in number. Unfortunately as a community we have never really called for this part of the system to be improved upon.

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Originally Posted by ZanzhizExaverion

LM-17, FFXI, your move.

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To be fair, SE did wait like 2+ years to ban anyone for the mass dupe glitch even though they knew it was happening and was aware of the glitch.

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Originally Posted by Pandastirfry

How's about we actually give the Devs time to address this. Because an exploit like this will most likely not only need mass bans, but also a update that will "break " the app.

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Because then we wouldn't be hyperbolic ninnies on an MMO forum.

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Originally Posted by Azurymber

Now a HUGE amount of people are using a third party app that lets you wide-scan areas to quickly find Hunt mobs.

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I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying by any means, but I'd just like to point out that the range for what you're talking about isn't as "wide" as you think it is. The person who created it even stated that it's only going to show mobs that are within your range of sight. So there's still plenty of leg work to be done to find Hunt Marks. You mentioning "Widescan" will make any FFXI vet assume that it shows a map wide list of mobs and their location, which this doesn't.

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Originally Posted by Akmzero

To be fair, SE did wait like 2+ years to ban anyone for the mass dupe glitch even though they knew it was happening and was aware of the glitch.

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To be fair, SE stated they were watching the situation and even warned people who thought SE was bluffing - guess they weren't bluffing after all? If they leave it in they're not saying: "go ahead and abuse it", they pretty much waited to see who would abuse it, and sure enough you had entire linkshells getting banned and many more fragmented and some of the game's "hero's" banned, like Jackyl, was it?

SE has done something to address all of your issues that you have described here except the current because it is brand new and they havent had enough time to address it yet.

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Originally Posted by Azurymber

When FFXIV 2.0 started, a number of people used farming bots, that warped from group-to-group of sheep in coerthas. Even with 100s of people reporting them, they never seemed to get banned.

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They were too banned. It may have not happened over night, because they had to be watched an linked to RMT an then mass-banned, but they arent there now are they. SE also increased the amount of mob spawns, so more people had a legitimate chance to farm.

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Originally Posted by Azurymber

With PvP a number of people used PvP bots for SIX MONTHS + with no bans.

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They may have not been banned, but they made their win-trading pointless now with Frontlines. So they spent all that time win-trading for no reason. That's a pretty stiff punishment if you ask me lol.

So to say that SE does nothing to curb the cheating is pretty dumb. They just banned over 1000 accounts just 2 days ago too btw.

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Originally Posted by Tyrial

I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying by any means, but I'd just like to point out that the range for what you're talking about isn't as "wide" as you think it is. The person who created it even stated that it's only going to show mobs that are within your range of sight. So there's still plenty of leg work to be done to find Hunt Marks. You mentioning "Widescan" will make any FFXI vet assume that it shows a map wide list of mobs and their location, which this doesn't.

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This.

The other thread that showed up earlier with a screenshot of the radar in-use wasn't matched to the in-game map (I was told by a friend who tested it out briefly, they said it was the range of your minimap, which pretty much coincides with the max draw distance in game.
While I'm not trying to argue that radar should be allowed, its not anywhere near the level of brokenness that certain people are making it out to be.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

To be fair, SE stated they were watching the situation and even warned people who thought SE was bluffing - guess they weren't bluffing after all? If they leave it in they're not saying: "go ahead and abuse it", they pretty much waited to see who would abuse it, and sure enough you had entire linkshells getting banned and many more fragmented and some of the game's "hero's" banned, like Jackyl, was it?

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I don't remember them even warning people about the glitch. I knew some game 'heros' banned. Was a sad time. You played on Garuda with Jackyl as well?

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Originally Posted by Akmzero

I don't remember them even warning people about the glitch. I knew some game 'heros' banned. Was a sad time.

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Yeah, was during fan festival I believe when they basically warned people not to use it or group with anyone who does since the exact way to do it you couldn't pretend not to know since you don't normally do salvage in that fashion lol. Then came January 23rd(?) 2009 that went down in history.

You think cheating to win is new? Honestly?

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Originally Posted by KitanaiKoneko

This.

The other thread that showed up earlier with a screenshot of the radar in-use wasn't matched to the in-game map (I was told by a friend who tested it out briefly, they said it was the range of your minimap, which pretty much coincides with the max draw distance in game.
While I'm not trying to argue that radar should be allowed, its not anywhere near the level of brokenness that certain people are making it out to be.

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Exactly. It's not like people are POS hacking to the Marks. That would be cause for an uproar, this is hardly an advantage.

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Originally Posted by Tyrial

Exactly. It's not like people are POS hacking to the Marks. That would be cause for an uproar, this is hardly an advantage.

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Get a couple of FC or close friends parties standing still spreaded around the map without moving with that tool, claiming all the marks for themselves and then come back here saying this is hardly an advantage.

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Originally Posted by Tyrial

Exactly. It's not like people are POS hacking to the Marks. That would be cause for an uproar, this is hardly an advantage.

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Hardly an advantage is still an advantage.

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Originally Posted by Edeline

Get a couple of FC or close friends parties standing still spreaded around the map without moving with that tool, claiming all the marks for themselves and then come back here saying this is hardly an advantage.

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Which is no different than getting a couple of FC or close friends parties spread around the map, standing still, watching for a Mark to spawn. It's NOT an advantage.

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Originally Posted by Tyrial

Which is no different than getting a couple of FC or close friends parties spread around the map, standing still, watching for a Mark to spawn. It's NOT an advantage.

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Wrong. You would actually have to move around and pay attention to where you're turning your camera to (basically, like all legit players) instead of afking there with 3rd party program letting you know instantly if it spawned near your range. People can even set alt chars there while doing something else or camping another map, instantly knowing if a mark spawned in a different map and having probably a 98% chance you'll get there before anyone discovers it on a legit way).

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Originally Posted by Ephany

>.<

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Because some ppl are that pathetic. They just want to have it all with out doing a thing there not real fans of games there just lazy pricks that ruin the game for all of us. Yes SE needs to do more to fight the good fight but it's not there fault ppl are so pathetic they need to find new ways to cheat everyday. The good thing is this games not that bad off yet but the bad it makes ppl quit in my book i don't see how ppl who cheat can enjoy the game when they never earned anything i mean is that not the point? work hard look back and say yess i did this it was a long hard road but i did it.

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Originally Posted by ZanzhizExaverion

LM-17, FFXI, your move.

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How many people did SE ban for using FFXI windower and ApRadar

Your move.

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Originally Posted by Suirieko

How many people did SE ban for using FFXI windower and ApRadar

Your move.

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I know A few people that got ban for windower lol.

The worst part Abu UT it is that the cheaters don't even seem to care they think they are in all the right with it and it's stupid

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Originally Posted by Pandastirfry

update that will "break " the app.

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Every patch already does this, guess what happens? I'll tell you, developer rolls out a patch to their app within hours. And because these things only read the memory (which also every AV-software and bazillion other software do), you can't really detect it.

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Originally Posted by Sove92

Every patch already does this, guess what happens? I'll tell you, developer rolls out a patch to their app within hours. And because these things only read the memory (which also every AV-software and bazillion other software do), you can't really detect it.

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Only if SE wanted to they can quite easily - They can easily throw in dummy NPCs that you can only see if you're using said app. They did it for FFXI so I don't see why not.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Only if SE wanted to they can quite easily - They can easily throw in dummy NPCs that you can only see if you're using said app. They did it for FFXI so I don't see why not.

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Legit people search known spawn locations in a loop, you will ban legit ppl this way, sorry.

Careful what we talk about in this thread, mods are locking threads about this subject soo yah <.<;