Omega, possibly confirmed? (Spoilers?)

(。⌒∇⌒)。(ﾉ≧∀≦)ﾉ Get Hyped! (ﾉ≧∀≦)ﾉ。(⌒∇⌒。)

*I would use a screenshot of Nanamo mentioning it, but I don't have it right now, someone else would have to upload either the cutscene, or ss of the scene.*

Omega for sure confirmed. Frontlines basically exists because of Omega. If one nation controlled a functioning Weapon, it would have no reason to be part of the Eorzean Alliance. I urge you to either continue with your main scenario quests or rewatch the cutscene in question, as Nanamo's tears have more to do with a loss of faith in humanity (save Raubahn and YOU) than any recent tragedy.

Yeah not "possibly" confirmed at all. It's there. It'll be a big part of the coming main story, I'm sure.

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Originally Posted by Saikou

Omega for sure confirmed. Frontlines basically exists because of Omega. If one nation controlled a functioning Weapon, it would have no reason to be part of the Eorzean Alliance. I urge you to either continue with your main scenario quests or rewatch the cutscene in question, as Nanamo's tears have more to do with a loss of faith in humanity (save Raubahn and YOU) than any recent tragedy.

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I never said anything about Nanamo's tears. 8D

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Originally Posted by RickiFake02

Yeah not "possibly" confirmed at all. It's there. It'll be a big part of the coming main story, I'm sure.

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That's the hope. Maybe it'll be the next "big boss"[like Ultima and Bahamut]? Who knows.

You did not, but its all tied together. Nanamo is tired to playing the game of intrigue in Ul'dah. Omega's existence has only ratcheted the game up a notch, with her own brother setting his eyes on world domination.

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Originally Posted by Saikou

You did not, but its all tied together. Nanamo is tired to playing the game of intrigue in Ul'dah. Omega's existence has only ratcheted the game up a notch, with her own brother setting his eyes on world domination.

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Uhm. Her brother? Where was it said that Lolorito is her brother?

Oh boy, you haven't been paying attention at all, have you? Prince Teledji Adeledji is of whom I speak. Lord Lolorito is downright benign when compared with what the Prince has already done to foment revolution.

Where was it said that Teledji is her brother? And also: I disagree. Before this patch, I would have agreed that Teledji was the worse of the two, but Lolorito has FAR surpassed him at this point. Suporrting the Domans and acting like the good guy, all the while going behind our backs to start a revolution in order to set himself up to control Omega? At least Teledji is up front about the fact that he's an ass.

Edit: I am getting the character's names crossed. Teledji is the one going after Omega. However, I still don't see where it's been stated anywhere that he is Nanamo's brother.

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Originally Posted by RickiFake02

Edit: I am getting the character's names crossed. Teledji is the one going after Omega. However, I still don't see where it's been stated anywhere that he is Nanamo's brother.

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I think a fnaon spawned by the fact that Nanamo is the Sultana and they royalty tends to be related

To that I must point out that Nanamo could be a cousin at best but odds are they aren't actually related. If they were, Nanamo would have a little more power than a figurehead

Part of me also thinks they pretty much confirmed Alexander too, that throne in Ishgard cutscene looked like the alex turrets, as did the building itself.
And considering alex has gone up against bahamut before in a previous title, they have history
If rumours are true that when coil ends, bahamut is unleashed, they will need something to take it down, and I can't see omega being powerful enough even though they said it was.

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Originally Posted by Gerolan

If rumours are true that when coil ends, bahamut is unleashed, they will need something to take it down, and I can't see omega being powerful enough even though they said it was.

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This is a good theory, however I can't see why Ishgard would want to stop Bahamut, considering at the end of 2.3 both Lahabrea and Elidblus are standing behind the Holy See, indicating that Ishgard is under the influence of the Ascians. Not to mention, that the ending looked like Ishgard were preparing for war - possibly against the rest of Eorzea. The Ascians love sowing discord. They wouldn't be prepping Ishgard to war against Garlemald. That would just seem silly. My belief is that because Gaius failed in the task set him by Lahabrea, he has turned his focus to Ishgard instead.

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Originally Posted by Eltaire

This is a good theory, however I can't see why Ishgard would want to stop Bahamut.

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Being a dragon god, for starters

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

Being a dragon god, for starters

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I think you completely missed the point of my post.

Independently, Ishgard may wish to stop Bahamut, yes. But they aren't independent.

The Ascians are influencing Ishgard, as they influenced Garlemald into calling down Meteor. If Bahamut awakened again, beginning another reign of destruction, the Ascians would want that.

The only benefit I could see in the Ascians wanting Bahamut and Alexander to battle would be the potential for mass destruction across Eorzea, and the subsequent further disruption to the balance of Aether. Also the mass release of spirits from people dying could be enough to fuel Zodiark's awakening, which may be what they are after.

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

Being a dragon god, for starters

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Bahamut isn't really a "dragon god" in this game, he's more like the Primal God, or ultimate primal. The dragons in xiv follow Nidhogg.

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Originally Posted by Eltaire

I think you completely missed the point of my post.

Independently, Ishgard may wish to stop Bahamut, yes. But they aren't independent.

The Ascians are influencing Ishgard, as they influenced Garlemald into calling down Meteor. If Bahamut awakened again, beginning another reign of destruction, the Ascians would want that.

The only benefit I could see in the Ascians wanting Bahamut and Alexander to battle would be the potential for mass destruction across Eorzea, and the subsequent further disruption to the balance of Aether. Also the mass release of spirits from people dying could be enough to fuel Zodiark's awakening, which may be what they are after.

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That was my point, an all out battle between two elder primals could be what the Ascians wanted from the start.

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Originally Posted by DoubleT

Bahamut isn't really a "dragon god" in this game, he's more like the Primal God, or ultimate primal. The dragons in xiv follow Nidhogg.

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Nidhogg being a king, and beatsmen revering primal like gods, Bahamut is thus the dragon god.

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Originally Posted by Alenore

Nidhogg being a king, and beatsmen revering primal like gods, Bahamut is thus the dragon god.

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Except nowhere in the game has any Dravanian ever indicated worship of Bahamut. He has been trapped in a prison in outer space for thousands of years. That means the Dravanians (if they ever did worship him) could never have summoned him in millenia. For all intents and purposes their god was lost to them. Despite that someone or something else has been tempering Ishgardians to the Dravanian Horde whilst Bahamut was sealed away, either in Dalamud or now deep beneath the ground... tempering has thus far only been done by primals and if Bahamut can't be doing it then that proves the Dravanians have an entirely different 'god'.

(And before anyone brings up Shiva, it was made pretty clear that her band of heretics are not related to the Dravanian Horde.)

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Originally Posted by Alberel

(And before anyone brings up Shiva, it was made pretty clear that her band of heretics are not related to the Dravanian Horde.)

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But isn't anyone known as a "heretic" to the Ishgardians known as such because they've allied with the Dravanians?

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Originally Posted by Alberel

Except nowhere in the game has any Dravanian ever indicated worship of Bahamut. He has been trapped in a prison in outer space for thousands of years. That means the Dravanians (if they ever did worship him) could never have summoned him in millenia. For all intents and purposes their god was lost to them. Despite that someone or something else has been tempering Ishgardians to the Dravanian Horde whilst Bahamut was sealed away, either in Dalamud or now deep beneath the ground... tempering has thus far only been done by primals and if Bahamut can't be doing it then that proves the Dravanians have an entirely different 'god'.

(And before anyone brings up Shiva, it was made pretty clear that her band of heretics are not related to the Dravanian Horde.)

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Bahamut looks like a Dragon. He's a primal. Primal get summoned by believers. So he had believers. So he is/was a god. => He's a dragon god.
Even if not worshipped by dragons.

That said, 2 NPC in Coerthas in 1.0 said dragons seemed to be worshipping a primal. The most likely candidate would be Bahamut, don't you think?
The beastmen started summoning primals some 15 years ago, it doesn't mean they weren't worshipping them before summoning them.

Finally, we don't even know if the dravanian "tempers" people. It could be some magick giving them control over the person, like a puppet, or brainwashing after months of torture and conditioning.

I really don't know where this idea that Teledji is related to the line of Ul comes from. Nanamo is still broken up about it, sure, but that's because Teledji's always been one of the less extreme Monetarists up to now and she's extremely bummed out that he'd go from being kind of mild-mannered to making a legitimate attempt at super-villainy.

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Originally Posted by Alberel

Except nowhere in the game has any Dravanian ever indicated worship of Bahamut. He has been trapped in a prison in outer space for thousands of years. That means the Dravanians (if they ever did worship him) could never have summoned him in millenia. For all intents and purposes their god was lost to them. Despite that someone or something else has been tempering Ishgardians to the Dravanian Horde whilst Bahamut was sealed away, either in Dalamud or now deep beneath the ground... tempering has thus far only been done by primals and if Bahamut can't be doing it then that proves the Dravanians have an entirely different 'god'.

(And before anyone brings up Shiva, it was made pretty clear that her band of heretics are not related to the Dravanian Horde.)

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Small chance, but could it have been a normal cult like the Lambs of Dalamud?

Also, as far as the Dravanians go... we honestly have so little information about them that it's hard to say anything either way. They apparently do worship "a primal", but all we know is that it exists. We haven't been given any information about it either way.

In fact, we basically have questions rather than answers when it comes to the Horde. Unlike all the other beastmen (who, at this point, have had their societies/worship practices/etc fleshed out extensively by their respective questlines), all we know about the Horde is that they are relentlessly hostile toward Ishgard, are dedicated to its destruction, seem to be willing to recruit subversives from within Ishgard, and as of Stone Vigil hard, evidently have a method of turning Spoken into aevis-dragons(!). Otherwise, we know nothing of their culture or religious practices, because they do not seem remotely interested in discourse.

Bahamut may have a place in their religion, he may not. It's impossible to say at this point because we know so little of the Horde.

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Originally Posted by Alenore

Bahamut looks like a Dragon. He's a primal. Primal get summoned by believers. So he had believers. So he is/was a god. => He's a dragon god.
Even if not worshipped by dragons.

That said, 2 NPC in Coerthas in 1.0 said dragons seemed to be worshipping a primal. The most likely candidate would be Bahamut, don't you think?
The beastmen started summoning primals some 15 years ago, it doesn't mean they weren't worshipping them before summoning them.

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the revering part is only for normal primals, elder primals don't need any worshipers to summon themeselves, proof is Odin.

and the dravanians started to wreck some way before nael had his plan to make dalamud come down, which means that they had no idea that bahamut would come back, thus, bahamut isn't their primal.

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Originally Posted by Phyllo

the revering part is only for normal primals, elder primals don't need any worshipers to summon themeselves, proof is Odin.

and the dravanians started to wreck some way before nael had his plan to make dalamud come down, which means that they had no idea that bahamut would come back, thus, bahamut isn't their primal.

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However wasn't it made a point that the Allag manufactured "prayer" for Bahamut, and since he is an elder primal.... shows that they DO require prayer? Maybe something else is keeping Odin active?

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Originally Posted by Phyllo

the revering part is only for normal primals, elder primals don't need any worshipers to summon themeselves, proof is Odin.

and the dravanians started to wreck some way before nael had his plan to make dalamud come down, which means that they had no idea that bahamut would come back, thus, bahamut isn't their primal.

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1) There's no proof. Just a lack of knowledge. Belias is an Elder Primal, did you see him around recently? Befre you say "maybe he's sealed like Odin was", I'll tell you "maybe something summons Odin". We can go far with "maybe"s.
2) From your reasoning, the Ixali don't worship Garuda because they were at war with Gridania long before the seal was broken. Do you see the problem?

Edit => Elder Primal, right now, seems to be the category of "Aetherial beings who come from distant eras". We don't know what an Elder Primal is, heck we don't even know what a Primal is exactly.
Right now, the fact that Bahamut is a dragon makes him the most likely candidate to be the Dragons primal/god.

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Originally Posted by Alenore

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It is stated in game that they have no idea why Odin is able to summon HIMSELF, proof that he doesn't need worshipers, while it is true that his wrath and sorrow might be you're typical reason as why he is able to do so, I like to think he just can summon himself without any cliched motive, i might be wrong but nothing proved otherwise so i'll stick with that belief.

the difference is that Garuda's existence was known before the seal was broken, but Bahamut had been long forgotten (can't recall where i got this but i'm pretty sure i red somewhere that it is only after reading some really old archives that they discovered bahamut's identity.)
If the dravanian had kept worshiping a god that is probably lost for good, people would know, just like they know about the ixals for garuda.

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Originally Posted by Magis

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I don't really get why they'd need to lock bahamut away if they had to summon him, because it means that he wasn't here, so there would be no need to seal him.
maybe the prayer was to lure him in, not summon him

(All of these are theories, not 100% sure statements, just my interpretations, i might be completely wrong)

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Originally Posted by Phyllo

It is stated in game that they have no idea why Odin is able to summon HIMSELF, proof that he doesn't need worshipers, while it is true that his wrath and sorrow might be you're typical reason as why he is able to do so, I like to think he just can summon himself without any cliched motive, i might be wrong but nothing proved otherwise so i'll stick with that belief.

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If they have strictly no idea why he's here, they also have no idea if someone summons him or not. It seems not, it may be, we don't know. No point stating things as fact when no one knows for sure.

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Originally Posted by Phyllo

the difference is that Garuda's existence was known before the seal was broken, but Bahamut had been long forgotten (can't recall where i got this but i'm pretty sure i red somewhere that it is only after reading some really old archives that they discovered bahamut's identity.)

If the dravanian had kept worshiping a god that is probably lost for good, people would know, just like they know about the ixals for garuda.

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Because you think it's totally unbelievable we don't know everything the enemy knows? They started noticing they were worshipping a primal only 5 years ago. They have no idea which one. If they have no idea which one, it could be the mighty Burrito Knight just like it could be Bahamut. But now, the Burrito knight has nothing to do with dragons while Bahamut has something... wait what can it be... Oh yeah, it's a dragon.

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Originally Posted by Phyllo

I don't really get why they'd need to lock bahamut away if they had to summon him, because it means that he wasn't here, so there would be no need to seal him.
maybe the prayer was to lure him in, not summon him

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Because maybe the reason Bahamut is in Dalamud isn't to be kept away from Eorzea (why would they need to go through such a complicate process when they could trap it within Omega, anyway?), but because he served a purpose within Dalamud, to convert/gather aether and send it to Crystal Tower? Remember Dalamud was sent to the sky to allow Xande to harness enough energy to control the Darkness.

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Originally Posted by Phyllo

(All of these are theories, not 100% sure statements, just my interpretations, i might be completely wrong)

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Exactly, everything about primals is theory, and when you're on about elder primals, it refers to eras long forgotten for the most part, so there's almost nothing we know. The "it's not like that" or "It's impossible" has no place in such a discussion :P

I still think the dragons are good and all Ishgardians are tempered at birth without knowing. The dragons know how to untemper people. These imo freed Ishgardians see the wrongs done by the Duchy and seek to remove the cotton and wool from ears and eyes. Due to ascian meddling. I think the dragons are more at war with the ascians than ishgard. I think Zodiarks home and Ascians home was under where current Ishgard is. Dragons protected the seal in Mor Dhona and probably kept an eye on Zodiark and Ascians before the Ishgardians came. The Ishgardians misunderstood the dragons, imo defensive measures, and led to the war. The ascians just are fueling the hatred for personal gain. And since Halone supposedly led the Ishgardians to that location, Halone might of been an Ascian leading them there.

Edit: i think some entity(ies) in one of the eras sealed away the primals and banished maybe heretical Zodiark worshiping Ascians into exile with Zodiark under Ishgard than tasked the dragons to be watchful protectors over both spots. After the death of mid and breaking of the seal the Ascians have gained the upper hand. Its not fully fleshed out... But thats because so many unknowns about the 12, ascians, dragons and the seal and Zodiark and Hydaelyn. But remember in early FF's Dragons were good guys and world protectors, hunted to near extinction of those that wanted world domination. So hoping dragons do become something more!

Edit 2: also possibly the good 12 gods and Hydaelyn are in Sharlyan(sp?) which is near Dravania, since the Archons the embodiment of the 12 come from there. Also they have kept out of Ishgard/Dravanian matters. While the Ascians are like the dark 12 counsel. So who knows lol, excited for more info!

This has turned into quite the interesting discussion. Just adding on, Yoshida has confirmed that there will be more lore to Odin in future patches, and more will be added to his character.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...apan-Expo-2014

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This is really related to the mysteries and the secrets of Odin. This actually shows that the last player to attack Odin was a Lalafell.
The setting that, why the last person to hit him gives his appearance to Odin is related to the storyline about Odin so it will continue to develop. This is not the end, we will have a Odin story focused at some time.

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So it'll be something interesting to look forward to as well, nonetheless. Sleipner mount pls.

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Originally Posted by Alenore

If they have strictly no idea why he's here, they also have no idea if someone summons him or not. It seems not, it may be, we don't know. No point stating things as fact when no one knows for sure.

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while I understand what you mean, I also have doubts about odin having worshippers, just who in the world could possibly gather enough crystals without being noticed like the beasts tribes are?

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Because you think it's totally unbelievable we don't know everything the enemy knows? They started noticing they were worshipping a primal only 5 years ago. They have no idea which one. If they have no idea which one, it could be the mighty Burrito Knight just like it could be Bahamut. But now, the Burrito knight has nothing to do with dragons while Bahamut has something... wait what can it be... Oh yeah, it's a dragon.

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wait a sec.... you mean that he's not a chicken? damn, i thought he was...
on a serious note, primal worshiping actually started long before bewbiefillia's path send you to iffy.

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Because maybe the reason Bahamut is in Dalamud isn't to be kept away from Eorzea (why would they need to go through such a complicate process when they could trap it within Omega, anyway?), but because he served a purpose within Dalamud, to convert/gather aether and send it to Crystal Tower? Remember Dalamud was sent to the sky to allow Xande to harness enough energy to control the Darkness.

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true.

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Exactly, everything about primals is theory, and when you're on about elder primals, it refers to eras long forgotten for the most part, so there's almost nothing we know. The "it's not like that" or "It's impossible" has no place in such a discussion :P

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Are you sure? It is common knowledge after all, that a roe in underpants with a lala will always be mistaken as a child abductor, no matter how pure his intentions are u_u

If the aether of a primal is traped in something, like Ultima Weapon or Dalamud, they can never be summoned again beacuse their aether is still in the phisycal realm and it hast returned to the aether realm

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Originally Posted by Phyllo

while I understand what you mean, I also have doubts about odin having worshippers, just who in the world could possibly gather enough crystals without being noticed like the beasts tribes are?

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Anything that summoned him the first time could be the reason. It could be prayers, a spell, a device, or something different.
I'd add to this that, while Odin may not have worshippers, he's still referred to as the Dark Divinity. So a god.

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Originally Posted by Phyllo

wait a sec.... you mean that he's not a chicken? damn, i thought he was...
on a serious note, primal worshiping actually started long before bewbiefillia's path send you to iffy.

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Exactly, but the primals themselves weren't really known by many people, since it was impossible before the seal was broken. All the knowledge we have from them, except the one the Circle of Knowing brought us from Sharlayan, comes from when the seals was broken (for instance, Minfilla's father journal).
Also, it's not like we have dragon emissary or anthropologic research team going to Dravania to study how they live and who they worship, so we know very few about who their primal is, while a few Amalj'aa, Kobold, etc. had relations with the Five Races.

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Originally Posted by Phyllo

Are you sure? It is common knowledge after all, that a roe in underpants with a lala will always be mistaken as a child abductor, no matter how pure his intentions are u_u

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Depends, on the shore of Costa Del Sol, he could be a lifesaver running to the help of a poor victim of an Aurelie!

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Originally Posted by Alenore

he's still referred to as the Dark Divinity. So a god.

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but wasn't he originally a soldier of allag?

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All the knowledge we have from them, except the one the Circle of Knowing brought us from Sharlayan, comes from when the seals was broken (for instance, Minfilla's father journal).
Also, it's not like we have dragon emissary or anthropologic research team going to Dravania to study how they live and who they worship, so we know very few about who their primal is

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It could be nice if we had access to muscleburton's journal ^^
also
"hey i'm a dragon, i'm just here to say we started to collect crystal to beat the sh*t out of your race, please look forward to it and have a nice day"

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Depends, on the shore of Costa Del Sol, he could be a lifesaver running to the help of a poor victim of an Aurelie!

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if he was wearing a swimsuit yes, but how can you explain the lack of pants when he wears briefs?

edit max message reached: i'm pretty sure moose or another loremonger had some nice info on his past with the allag and urth

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Originally Posted by Phyllo

but wasn't he originally a soldier of allag?

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We don't know who he was. Until we get more informations, we can't say.

This may stay from the bahamut ideas, but I've been wondering. The clouds of darkness is going to be the final boss of CT. And there's a definite connection to the 12 scions of light in xii. Famfrit is also referred to as the cloud of darkness. Would that make the cloud of darkness the title of famfrit who is somehow connected to the holy queen ascian Emmeroloth? Also there are 13 main esper connected to the zodiak theory as well as 13 games prior to this one. Minus XI which I never played (however if they did a shout out to that game I'm sure it would please many). Well cloud of darkness comes from 3. Chaos the walker of the wheel may as well be Chaos or garland or whatever from 1. Would Shemhazai the whisperer the martyr be related to one sin from 10? Etc. Zodiark the precept possibly 13? Jenovah either Zalera the angel of truth (ffvii was a lie for most of the game)