Patch 2.3 Shield Oath Issues

Anyone else noticing shield oath not giving as much of an enmity buff as pre patch? Since the patch, I've been having some trouble holding hate solid against nearly everyone else in the party and my mp is nearly drained during every pull (even small ones of 5 mobs) due to having to use flash more than I'm used to. Before the patch, to hold hate on a group of mobs equal to what I've been doing in the new dungeons, I've only ever had to use flash sparingly while using my enmity combo through the mobs. It's gotten to the point where I've switched out my vit accessories for strength and been popping X-ethers while weaving in my enmity combo thought the mob list. That seems to help but the fact that I have to do that when I've never had enmity issues in the past is odd to me.

Of course I could just suck, but I'd like to think I know what I'm doing, lol.

With the change to Shield Oath and Sword Oath not falling off upon death, I have noticed that it doesnt quite work properly.
I noticed I have not been gaining as much aggro as I use to, I notice this most of all in T9.

To fix this I just turn it off, then back on again manually, and it seems to work properly again.

Something might of happened in the patch when they changed it. I do not believe its 100% your fault.

Yeah aoe pulls as a pally just seam I dunno different???

I'm deff using more mana than I normally would with normal dungeon pulls. I know the shield oath/sword oath thing was buggered up sometime in patch 2.0 or 2.1. Could of happened again.

I think you are on to something. I though it might have been just me but I'm glad others have noticed it aw well. I will give the on/off a try later to see if that helps.
I 1st noticed it in the Main Story Line Roulette when pulling the groups and taking them to the cannons. Healer throws a quick heal on you as your run by taking them to the cannons and you look and 1 or 2 of then peel off.

The issue isn't with Shield Oath or anything like that. I tanked T9 and had no issues with enmity and have been going since the patch with no issues. The issue is with Flash it is a piece of shit ability that needs to be changed to properly scale with gear. Currently it only scales with level and nothing else. This means that a i110 Paladin tank generates the same enmity from flash as a fresh level 50 paladin with Artifact gear. As of right now Paladins are useless in the new dungeons or in any instance that you need to have them pull multiple adds. So until they fix the issues with flash take a Warrior into the new dungeons and you will have an easier time holding aggro.

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Originally Posted by Avy4576

Currently it only scales with level and nothing else.

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No; Flash scales with your weapon damage and your attack power. It's also affected by anything that modifies your damage%. However, Fight or Flight only modifies physical damage%, so, Flash is unaffected.
Warrior's Maim (damage%), Unchained (damage%), and Berserk(attack power%), on the other hand, all modify Flash's potency.

As far as I've tested, it's basically the equivalent of an out-of-combo Rage of Halone, or 500 enmity potency.

As for the Shield Oath issues, I haven't noticed anything, and the testing I've done does NOT suggest that there's any problem with Shield Oath's enmity multiplier (even following death).

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Originally Posted by Argyle_Darkheart

No; Flash scales with your weapon damage and your attack power. It's also affected by anything that modifies your damage%.
As far as I've tested, it's basically the equivalent of an out-of-combo Rage of Halone, or 500 enmity potency.

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Considering that flash is a magic based ability it would not be affected by weapon damage, attack power or damage percentage modifiers. And as for you comment on an out-of-combo Rage of Halone, it actually generates more enmity than a flash. And the reason that I state that it is garbage is a single un-buffed Overpower generates 1.5x more aggro than a flash will. And since flash can't be buffed by any ability in our repertoire it makes it a worthless skill for trying to gain aggro on multiple mobs.

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Originally Posted by Avy4576

Considering that flash is a magic based ability it would not be affected by weapon damage, attack power or damage percentage modifiers ...

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Flash scales with things like weapon damage, strength, and determination. It is unaffected by Fight or Flight, but is buffed by things that modify your attack power like Berserk and potions. If I recall correctly (it's been a while since I checked), things like Raging Strikes and Blood for Blood even work with it. Uncomboed RoH and Flash are similar enmity, though I don't think Flash has any variance to its effectiveness like melee attacks do, nor can it crit (as far as I know, anyway). I'm at a bit of a loss as to how you came to the conclusion that Flash scales only with level, since that, at least, is very easy to go test. Just get two naked paladins and give one a weathered short sword and the other any level 50 weapon and have them both Flash something. The results should be obvious.

edit: didnt really read argyle's post before posting. He's got the flash stuff right. There could be a shield oath bug floating around but I haven't noticed it.

The only enmity problem I'm having since the patch is with BLMs and that's simply because of the buff.

I just have to readjust my tanking to the raised potency on their spells.

BLM's AoE potency didn't go up so if you're having problems with that, it's not related.

If I lose aggro on anything, it's rarely to a BLM. Usually, it's to a physical DPS that just focuses on one mob and doesn't watch their own enmity meter. I personally haven't really noticed an issue with Shield Oath, however, I rarely die in dungeons so I'm not sure about the new update to its continued duration through death. I also find a lot of the issue is that many PLDs don't know how to properly use Flash. They either spam it after their Rage of Halone Combo once or they just think they are in the middle of a techno rave and they have to be the stobe light flashing constantly. If a paladin is complaining of MP issues, then they really aren't using Flash properly. Since it's a skill that doesn't interrupt combos, it's better to put it between and after a Riot Blade Combo to keep your MP from plummeting. IF Flash is equivalent to a single Rage of Halone outside of Combo, and given Rage of Halone has more enmity than Savage Blade, With pulls of 3+, Fast Blade, Flash, Riot Blade, Flash will provide more AOE aggro than tab targeting Rage of Halone around. However, once you get to 1-2 mobs, Switching to Fast Blade, Riot Blade a few time to regain MP before the next pull is smarter than just reverting to Rage of Halone. I run with BLMs geared well into the 90s, and I've yet to have an issue with them, and as I've said, it's usually just physical DPS that just focus too hard on one mob, which is their fault anyways when I pull 5 or 6 mobs in Hullbreaker.

Basically it comes down to Flash being a not very optimal AoE enmity builder for PLD. If you take all ilvl100+ players, PLD+WHM+BLM+BRD/BLM, and throw them into any level 50 dungeon, it can be quite hectic to hold hate with 3+ mobs. If your BRD casts battle voice/foe's and then the WHM and BLM start HOLY/FLARE bombing all you can do as a PLD is spam flash to keep up. I guess people complaining about PLD only having 1 rotation can cheer up now, we have the FLASH (3/4) > Circle of Scorn > Fast Blade > Riot Blade > Flash (Loop back to Fast Blade, or circle if off cooldown)...