Sycraus Tower Bosses - DoTs not working

Anyone else notice this on Amon and Xande?
I throw down my dots and nothing sticks except for Bio II.
My animations for them also appear to stop short.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Geracia2

Anyone else notice this on Amon and Xande?
I throw down my dots and nothing sticks except for Bio II.
My animations for them also appear to stop short.

---

There's a limit to the amount of DOTs that can be put on a mob. Best thing to do is try to get your DOTs up and not let them drop. Once they drop after the fight is well underway then it's increasingly hard to get them back on. Definitely an issue that SE needs to address.

I really hope they address this. As a bard, I generally want to get off straight shot + buffs before I apply my dots. As it stands I have to nerf my damage by getting my dots up 1st before I can apply buffs and then re-apply after I pop my cooldowns.

Man... now I gotta look up all the weakest dots and ask my party to hold them back.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ricdeau

There's a limit to the amount of DOTs that can be put on a mob. Best thing to do is try to get your DOTs up and not let them drop. Once they drop after the fight is well underway then it's increasingly hard to get them back on. Definitely an issue that SE needs to address.

---

The limit is like, 60 debuffs, though. Which, now that I think about it, is 2.5 per person, which is almost certainly not enough. I mean, you'll have the non-stacking debuffs like Rage of Halone, Dragon Kick, Storm's Eye, Storm's Path, Disembowel, Slow (Shadow Flare). That leaves ~54 debuffs, which is spread between everyone, so 2.25 per player? When SMN takes 3 at a minimum? And of course that ignores things like E4E and Virus/Supervirus.

I mean, a PLD will have good uptime on Scorn but shouldn't be using Fracture (1); WAR should probably drop Fracture in large groups until the debuff limit changes (0); MNK will keep up ToD and Demo (2); LNC has Phleb and CT (2); BRD has WB and VB, plus Foe (2-3); BLM has Thunder (1); SMN has Bio, Miasma, Bio 2, not sure how much the Disease effect of Miasma stays up, Miasma 2 has 30 sec uptime (3-5); healers should provide near 100% uptime on E4E and Virus/Supervirus (1-3). That's a 1.3 rate on the low end, 1.9 at the high, but once you factor in other stuff it gets way worse.

Factor back in Fracture and throw in healers casting dots and it gets much, much worse. PLD Scorn and Fracture (2), WAR Fracture (1), MNK ToD Demo and Fracture (3), LNC Phleb CT and Fracture (3), BRD WB VB Foe (3), BLM Thunder (1), SMN Bio Miasma Bio 2 Miasma 2 (4), WHM Aero (1), SCH Bio Miasma Bio 2 (3), Healer Virus E4E (2). That's 23 over 9 classes, or 2.55. That's more than the 2.5 we started out allowing, and doesn't include any of the "constants" I talked about before like RoH.

So, first thing I'd try to get the party to stop doing is Fracture. I mean, even for WAR it's rarely worth it, and it's even less worth it if it's costing a SMN a dot. Next after that if the issue persists would probably be to ask the healers to cut back on dots.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ricdeau

There's a limit to the amount of DOTs that can be put on a mob. Best thing to do is try to get your DOTs up and not let them drop. Once they drop after the fight is well underway then it's increasingly hard to get them back on. Definitely an issue that SE needs to address.

---

Sadly they have addressed it - the limit used to be 30. It's just ridiculous.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Viridiana

The limit is like, 60 debuffs, though.

---

Can a GM confirm this?
If so, that seems quite drastic. 72 players, 60 debuffs? thats crazy. Better measures should be taken than decreasing the number of dots. Possibly increase the cap, and depending on the amount of Debuffs, decrease their efficiency, something. It almost makes me useless if i only have 1 DoT on a boss.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Geracia2

Can a GM confirm this?

---

Like, 5 minutes of search. >_>

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Patch Notes

The maximum number of statuses that can be inflicted upon notorious monsters and dungeon bosses has been raised to 60.

---

To elaborate, the cap is 60 (de)buffs. The display limit is 30 (2 lines of 15). If your Windbite was, say, debuff #31, then it would apply successfully but never be displayed on the debuff area. If you refresh it before duration runs out, it will, but continue to not show even if there is "room" for it. If you let it fall off (likely, since you can't see it) and then reapply, you will be able to see it.

So if your group had like 12 summoners/scholars (3dots x12), you could easily get "debuff hogging". 60 is a fine limit for 24 people though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

To elaborate, the cap is 60 (de)buffs. The display limit is 30 (2 lines of 15). If your Windbite was, say, debuff #31, then it would apply successfully but never be displayed on the debuff area.

---

I still think that's weird, even if it's true. I mean, why wouldn't your own debuffs show up on the top and push something else off the list?

Memory limitations I assume.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

To elaborate, the cap is 60 (de)buffs. The display limit is 30 (2 lines of 15). If your Windbite was, say, debuff #31, then it would apply successfully but never be displayed on the debuff area. If you refresh it before duration runs out, it will, but continue to not show even if there is "room" for it. If you let it fall off (likely, since you can't see it) and then reapply, you will be able to see it.

So if your group had like 12 summoners/scholars (3dots x12), you could easily get "debuff hogging". 60 is a fine limit for 24 people though.

---

It's really not. A fine limit would be all 24 players being all to have full uptime on their dots, otherwise they need to go back to the drawing board. Why release 24-man content if, by its nature, it's going to gimp people.

You can turn on the option to only see your own debuffs and you can see exactly when you are wasting GCDs by not being about to stack another debuff, and it's often.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

To elaborate, the cap is 60 (de)buffs. The display limit is 30 (2 lines of 15). If your Windbite was, say, debuff #31, then it would apply successfully but never be displayed on the debuff area. If you refresh it before duration runs out, it will, but continue to not show even if there is "room" for it. If you let it fall off (likely, since you can't see it) and then reapply, you will be able to see it.

So if your group had like 12 summoners/scholars (3dots x12), you could easily get "debuff hogging". 60 is a fine limit for 24 people though.

---

Can confirm this, you can actually test your "invisible" DoTs with fester as it will still take them into consideration even if you can't see them.

I won't argue for or against an increase in DoTs able to be placed on a mob but i would hope that they at least allow the system to prioritize visibility of the DoTs that you are placing over others. I don't really need to know when a Bard in alliance C is tossing up Venomous Bite or see every single Dragoon's Chaos thrust.

But once again... memory limitations probably...

OP, a very easy way to test this for yourself is to fester when it appears as though you have less than your full dots up (even though you know you cast all three). If your fester damage is consistent with your usual fester (with three dots), then you know that your dots are on the boss... just 'invisible' due to the 60 debuff limit that others have spoken about. Anyway, I can confirm that this change was done in an update months ago because people were complaining about not getting credit on FATE mobs, and also because people were worried about CT having issues with debuff limits due to the reason you mentioned. But, this is fixed. You just can't see it. It does get a little frustrating if you don't know the timing left on your other dots, but if at least one dot is up you can get a nice ballpark idea of when you need to recast. When Bio 2 reaches about 18~ seconds left, you can recast your dots for full uptime.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ziddyt

It's really not. A fine limit would be all 24 players being all to have full uptime on their dots, otherwise they need to go back to the drawing board. Why release 24-man content if, by its nature, it's going to gimp people.

You can turn on the option to only see your own debuffs and you can see exactly when you are wasting GCDs by not being about to stack another debuff, and it's often.

---

Ok then, lets take an extreme.

PLD SCH SCH 5SMN
WAR SCH SCH 5SMN x2

Halone, Storm's Path, Storm's Eye (3)
Circle of Scorn, Fracture x2 (3)
Summoner: Bio, Bio2, Miasma (3 dots x 5 people x 3 parties) = 45
Scholar: as above (3 dots x 3 people x 3 parties) = 27

78. So okay, over the limit. But people throw a hissy fit whenever healers DPS right? so -27, it's 51.

Bards: Windbite, Venomous. Only 2 to upkeep.
Dragoons: Phlebotomize, Chaos Thrust. (2) Disembowel as well but only once across all DRGs.
Monk: Demolish, Touch of Death. (2), 3 if they really love Fracture. Dragon Kick but only once across all MNKs.
Black Mage: Thunder (1)

Well within the 60 limit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

Well within the 60 limit.

---

I can't help but notice you left out Virus, Super Virus, Eye for an Eye, Blind, Disease, Stun, Silence, and Miasma II.

Virus/Antibody: You think it's gonna be applied intelligently with (at worst) 21 people able to do it? Regardless, fine. Permanent +1 for Antibody.
E4E: Fair, +1
Blind: Every boss is immune. If not, DR makes it moot.
Disease: Same
Stun: Same
Silence: Lasts like 1 second if not immune.
Miasma II: Arguably a waste. Barely worth using unless Contagion is up, and even then it's debatable.

So 51 goes up to 53-55, ignoring M2.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

But people throw a hissy fit whenever healers DPS right? so -27, it's 51.

---

No they don't? Regardless, you can't discount it because it still happens. I've been in ST and experienced this, so you can't pretend it just doesn't happen based on your made up circumstances. There's not even any reason for healers to not dot, it's couple or few gcds every so often, it doesn't actually hinder healing.

On top of that you ignore another dot just to fit your argument. Miasma 2 is not "arguable" with contagion up, it's a straight up dps increase.

You have a hard time reading sarcasm, I see.

Miasma 2 I'm not going to bother going into great depth, suffice to say that it's an extremely marginal gain (+40pot) every minute with Contagion. I see no great reason to use it in ST where a boss could conceivably hit the debuff limit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

I see no great reason to use it in ST where a boss could conceivably hit the debuff limit.

---

That's the problem, though. We should not be in a situation where the debuff limit is influencing our attack decisions.

Been said already, but, anyway I tried B2MB the bosses in ST then fester it and it DID damage like it normally DID with B2MB up even I cannot see it on the boss. It still unclear to me if it was ticking or not.

I noticed this when playing as dragoon - Phlebotomoze was up but couldn't get Disembowel and Chaos Thurst on bosses. So after couple of unsuccesfull tries I just started to repeat basic combo + Phlebotomoze.

Even though the visual cap is 30, YOUR debuffs will appear first in the line with a green timer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MercuryD

Even though the visual cap is 30, YOUR debuffs will appear first in the line with a green timer.

---

Sometimes they won't appear if you applied them after the 30 visual limit is hit and you have to play the guessing the game. This is the biggest problem with their current system.

Odd, mine always seem to show

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MercuryD

Odd, mine always seem to show

---

If you refresh right after they fall it seems to retain the slot, but if you apply late there's a good chance you won't see it and it gets stuck off the visible list. My Dragon Kick debuff usually doesn't have much of a problem (probably because other people refreshing and such), but my DOTs don't show up frequently. Alternatively you can only display your own debuffs/DOTs that is if it's not a big deal being unable to see everyone else's.

This is definitely a bug. It's only present in this instance.

24 people isn't enough to hit the actual dot cap. You only see that with S ranks, Odin and Behemoth.

When I'm summoning in ST I use the presence of a large amount of Summoners as an excuse to get Ifrit-egi out, he's the best :).