So... Why IS the GCD 2.5 seconds?

Not that I mind (though I did pick monk specifically to negate it, kind of,) I was just curious where the decision came from.

Was it because of PS3/4? Or is it like a thing that the eastern market prefers? Or is it supposed to be like a minor callback to other FF turn-based stuff?

Juuust curious!

No. It's because filling your TP bar to 1000 before you could launch a weapon skill wasn't cool enough.

This was argued to death in the beta testing, but I think the general idea is that they didn't want a button-mashing spamfest. 2.5 seconds gives you time to dodge during the GCD so you really aren't losing much time on major boss fights like Titan Ex, Twin, etc.

Because the original 3 seconds in beta was deemed too long. So we got 2.5 seconds.

Honestly I prefer it to my WoW Rogue and Warrior.

Personally I think the 2.5s GCD exists so that healers using a controller can compete with those using a mouse and keyboard. If the GCD was short then 'tabbing' through the party list with the controller would likely put the average user at a disadvantage compared to a mouse and keyboard user. I find the GCD pretty excessive as a DPS since for the most part I already know what I am going to press next and this results in spamming the next button more than I do on other MMOs but maybe that's just me.

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Originally Posted by Eissels

Not that I mind (though I did pick monk specifically to negate it, kind of,) I was just curious where the decision came from.

Was it because of PS3/4? Or is it like a thing that the eastern market prefers? Or is it supposed to be like a minor callback to other FF turn-based stuff?

Juuust curious!

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It's one of the reasons I prefer monk. The 2.5 se4c global isn't too bad but there are problems with it. When tanking it can limit your responsiveness to things if you have to wait for a global.

T

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Originally Posted by Shake0615

This was argued to death in the beta testing, but I think the general idea is that they didn't want a button-mashing spamfest. 2.5 seconds gives you time to dodge during the GCD so you really aren't losing much time on major boss fights like Titan Ex, Twin, etc.

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The combo melee classes feel like that already, although monk positioning makes it more interesting. The buff to BLM was sort of related to that. This game is basically a dodge game and that's not an issue but if you're on a long cast and just before the end you have to move it's infuriating and a massive waste of damage.

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Originally Posted by Eissels

Not that I mind (though I did pick monk specifically to negate it, kind of,) I was just curious where the decision came from.

Was it because of PS3/4? Or is it like a thing that the eastern market prefers? Or is it supposed to be like a minor callback to other FF turn-based stuff?

Juuust curious!

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Alpha and beta testing found it to be the sweet spot.

It was deemed the best time in the Beta and it beat the old way (in 1.#) where you could burn all your TP then be stuck auto-attacking for a few minutes while your TP recovered. That or a Bard could use the TP song. In fact, Bards were more useful as Bards in 1.#. Would I want that back, hell no.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

It was deemed the best time in the Beta and it beat the old way (in 1.#) where you could burn all your TP then be stuck auto-attacking for a few minutes while your TP recovered. That or a Bard could use the TP song. In fact, Bards were more useful as Bards in 1.#. Would I want that back, hell no.

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If that was the case with a 1.x GCD that was just poor skill cost balance. To me, even the ~2 second GCD of a monk feels like an eternity, but its not as bad since I have to move into position for my next attack during that 2 seconds. I can't stand playing any of the other classes simply because of the 2.5 second GCD.

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Originally Posted by Ulathskullsplitter

Because the original 3 seconds in beta was deemed too long. So we got 2.5 seconds.

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jesus friggin christ. thank god that was dimmied down.
tbh when i get in the grove as a pgl/mnk i just wanna keep going but the GCD is a setback ...
i still spam my buttons anyone coz im waitinf for the CD to go off. XD

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Originally Posted by dejavutwo

If that was the case with a 1.x GCD that was just poor skill cost balance.

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Oh, in 1.x was no GCD. Every skill had it's own CD. Between some seconds to 15 minutes.
You started the battle with 0 TP and each hit gave you around 100 TP (max TP was 3000). That mean that at the beginning of a battle you fought with only auto-attack until the TP was high enough to start with some weapon skills. Then with auto-attack again until TP was high enough again.
But in return only the first skill in a combo chain used TP.

Because the Papa Bear said 2.6 was too much
And the Mama Bear said 2.4 was too little
But Baby Bear said 2.5 was juuuusst right ^_^

I still prefer the combat system from 1.23. It was a lot more strategic because you could get 3000 TP and use three combos (9 weaponskills) in a row for burst damage or a combo every 1000 TP for more sustained damage. It also had the added element of missing out on a lot of potential damage if you some how didn't get to use your 2nd or 3rd weaponskill in the combo because you couldn't just start the combo over without spending another 1000 TP.

Lots of good things about ARR, but lots of good things lost from 1.23.

so controller players aren't as gimped i guess? it was argued a lot during beta, but i recall yoshi or some dev saying it "gave you time to think about what to use" or something

make of that what you will

Probably to accommodate console players.

Oh... how I wish Shield Bash weren't on a GCD.

PS3 limitations

This was argued to death on the Alpha and Beta forums. It's not changing - Yoshi made that clear back then. I actually quite like the system - it's not the snore fest that FFXI and 1.0's sloooow systems were - here you have to be on your toes or else things could turn out pretty badly.

And if it's such a bad thing, an analogy to use would be to juxtapose it with the old ATB system from earlier FF games pre FFX. It's pretty much the same thing - having to wait for a timer to cooldown before you can enter commands. This isn't a button-mashing action game, it's an RPG. Management of time has always been a part of that.

I believe Yoshi said at one point it was to put keyboard and controller players on a relatively level playing-field.

I think that's pretty much what ppl said above that 2.5 seconds won't let players pressing buttons too much while it's not that slow.

one more thing I think can be contributed to the 2.5s GCD is one point from dev team's interview @ 1.0 to 2.0 period. There was one thing they brought up about the graphic quality and game setting. A pretty game like FF14, dev team dont want players kill mobs too fast. if players killed mobs too fast that means they need to make more mobs on the field. So, the dev teams default setting in their mind is 15-30 seconds a mob. From there, they setup the dmg per second on combo damage or AoE damage. If you are in dungeon, you can feel roughly each group of 3 mobs takes you 1 mins to kill them and run to next bunch... I know that cus my divine seal will always ready from batch to batch :D

Coming from Aion, where servers regularly grind to a halt in large field PvP and PvE, I think the GCD choices are wise. As gear continues to ramp, and skill speed pushes GCD lower and lower, there's plenty of run to manoeuvre with performance still. It also makes the game a lot more deliberate, and makes non-GCD skill weaving all the more effective. I'd rather a slower game with a higher skill ceiling than a mashfest, like so many other MMOs out there.

I like the way it is now. I use some Spell Speed but I'd never want something shorter than 2 second, it'd be too frenetic. The pace is just perfect.

For me is perfect. The quicker you make it the more spammy and mindless combat becomes.

2.5 is fine. It gives you time to think between attacks.

To be honest, i actually prefered the stamina system we had in 1.0

You could set the pace of the battle by deciding how fast you wished to burn through it. There were no auto attacks, just light attacks which recovered stamina on each hit, and skills which used up stamina.

You could opt to burn through it all in seconds for short fights, or to set immense amounts of hate on something, or choose to pace it out a little for longer fights. It made getting hate back easy since you could just push yourself a little more when needed.


Then they took it away, gave us a super slow and weak auto attack and stuck to just the TP system. Rubbish.

Is 2.0's system better than the one we got after the auto-attack addition in 1.1 or 1.2 or something like that? Hell yes! Because that was basicly waiting 10 seconds to swing an axe once, getting a hand full of TP back, and blowing through it 1000-2000 at a time (with a max of 3000 you could hold). Fights were rediculously slow, and that's basicly what killed version 1 of XIV for me.

But is 2.0's system better than the stamina system of 1.0? Not even close. Yet people's biggest problem with it was mashing buttons over and over. And for some reason, people are doing the exact same thing now but are completely fine with it. Even with it being more limited than that was too.

The main problem of the "Tanaka-System" was solely ressource cost, you had to spend not only TP, mana and stamina for one skill but also cast time and cooldowns. Furthermore, you needed those for ALL skills...
Yoshi-P said many times the GCD is ment to make it fair between gamepad players and keyboard players, but for me it seems just to be a poor excuse...
Even with GCD it needs some kind of variation with some skills that do not use those requirements or we have again SAME system as we had with Tanaka back then when every skill uses every restriction possible!

2.5s GCD system is a good balance between a fast paced battle system (way faster than FFXI ever was), but still gives you a reasonable time window, and yet it's not to slow either. For example the combat in 1.23 was slower and leans more towards FFXI. Some classes need abit more time to position themselves such as Monk and DRGs that's why a 2.5s GCD is just about right. It's good, not to spammy and not to slow either.

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Originally Posted by Felis

Oh, in 1.x was no GCD. Every skill had it's own CD. Between some seconds to 15 minutes.
You started the battle with 0 TP and each hit gave you around 100 TP (max TP was 3000). That mean that at the beginning of a battle you fought with only auto-attack until the TP was high enough to start with some weapon skills. Then with auto-attack again until TP was high enough again.
But in return only the first skill in a combo chain used TP.

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I misread that and thought by 1.x you meant a GCD that lasted between 1.0-1.9 seconds.

As most people have said, 2.5s was mostly for the console players, and probably just the type of playerbase SE wanted to pull in. They wanted this game to be more casual than other MMOs.

I personally would have really liked it to be 2 or 1.5 seconds. I find myself sitting there waiting for the GCD pretty often in combat. But that's just my personal preference. I enjoy faster-paced combat.

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Originally Posted by Althea

They wanted this game to be more casual than other MMOs.

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Yet I'm having more trouble in the endgame of FFXIV than in a lot of past MMOs I played. Skill speed has nothing to do with hardcore. You can make a hardcore slow game easily and you can make a fast paced casual game too.

Just compare the flashy button mashing of god of war with the slow and tactical combat of dark souls.

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Originally Posted by Edli

Yet I'm having more trouble in the endgame of FFXIV than in a lot of past MMOs I played.

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Okay. But.

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Originally Posted by Althea

They wanted this game to be more casual than other MMOs.

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This wasn't my opinion. It was a statement by Yoshi.

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Originally Posted by Althea

This wasn't my opinion. It was a statement by Yoshi.

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Then I guess he failed at that lol. This "toxic" community everyone's complaining about is a byproduct of a lot of unforgiving fights his team pulls out. Rarely do you see in other MMOs fights where 1 player can mess it up for all the other 7. But it happens here and in another genre which is infamous for its "toxic" community, MOBAs. When even 1 player has so much responsibility in their shoulder it will breed this behavior and is no coincidence that both MOBAs and FFXIV are know for their "toxic" community.

Although with 2.3 it looks like he's trying to fulfill his promise. Everything I've done till now has been casual and boring as hell. The three dungeons, Ramuh HM, the freaking hunts, the tower. Such a disappointing patch. Ramuh ex may keep me busy for a bit but I don't see it lasting long.

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Originally Posted by Edli

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Because it goes Hardcore > Casual > Hardcore > Casual with every update.

2.1 had more casual content
2.2 had more hardcore content
2.3 has casual content
2.4 will again have hardcore content (Third Coil). Luckily, Rogue and Ninja are coming out with 2.4 too, so it'll be a nice diversion for those of us who can't/don't want to join a static.