BLM no better then other?

Hello guys,

i have there a question.

After Patch 2.3 is now my BLM really better then the Monks, Dragoons and Summoners in my Raid-group? Or only a little better Single DPS and not better in DPS then all other DPS-classes?

If you're a good BLM you should be on par with DRG. SMN is in my experience still a bit higher. MNK is still king

It highly depends on the content...
In dungeons, monks are really bad (no sustained AOE damage, GL always down) while BLM are kings.
In SCOB, it is not possible to outdps a good melee, unless the gear difference is huge. Turn 8 is probably the best fight for Monks and Dragoons. BLM can now be on par with all the other classes (Brd, Smn) on a single target, which is definitely a good thing.

You cant expect to be king in AOE/old content AND king in new/hard content.

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Originally Posted by Limani

Hello guys,

i have there a question.

After Patch 2.3 is now my BLM really better then the Monks, Dragoons and Summoners in my Raid-group? Or only a little better Single DPS and not better in DPS then all other DPS-classes?

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Your BLM is now the king of dps, easily blowing full 8-man parties of MNKs out of the water on its own.
/sarcasm

My BLM definitely does more damage now, but MNK/DRG are still going to do more single target, and SMN still has better utility.

I somewhat disagree, only because perhaps most dragoon do not know how to play the class fully but i have often done more st dps then dragoons equally geared or even geared slightly higher.
Monks will always do more ST damage however i am thinking this may change once Ninja comes out.

I must be a bad blm but I did a lot less damage than my party's monk & dragoon in T6 yesterday.
Ultimately, movement = shitty DPS so I've decided to permanently switch to summoner meh.

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Originally Posted by Nukocafe

I must be a bad blm but I did a lot less damage than my party's monk & dragoon in T6 yesterday.
Ultimately, movement = shitty DPS so I've decided to permanently switch to summoner meh.

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If you work in A.M. after chains and sprinting once briars drop it'll help your dps out a lot by reducing the time spent moving. Be sure to swiftcast Flare if theres a briar in the middle as well. You should also be using atleast Mega-Potion of INT, X-Potion even better.

we did T8 after patch, Our MNK getting 445 DPS. while our BLM DPS increase from 335 to almost 400 after 2.3.
a good DRG/SMN will still out DPS BLM on single target but it wont be by large margin anymore.

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Originally Posted by Limani

Hello guys,

i have there a question.

After Patch 2.3 is now my BLM really better then the Monks, Dragoons and Summoners in my Raid-group? Or only a little better Single DPS and not better in DPS then all other DPS-classes?

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Its 10% of what you able to do

if you do 300 before, you will hit 330, if you did 500 (lol) before, you will able to hit 550

Simple as that, don't listen to other bullshit too much because they just want to brag

After counting in Foe's Requiem it does seem BLM can beat any DPS but MNK in a stand-still like T8, though still less than DRG + the buff it gives BRD if you count that as the whole of DRG DPS. Considering how much better utility SMN has, and how its damage converts into real fights more consistently by default, I think this is how it should be.

I think I would have been really close to our MNK this week in T8 had I not been handling mines. (there was about a 20 DPS difference between us) Think I'm going to get our 2nd BRD to handle those and try to remain stationary as possible.

I was neck in neck with our DRG who is usually not too far behind our MNK.

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Originally Posted by Altimis

Its 10% of what you able to do

if you do 300 before, you will hit 330, if you did 500 (lol) before, you will able to hit 550

Simple as that, don't listen to other bullshit too much because they just want to brag

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10% is an average over a long period of time. Even for a fight that can go up to 11 minutes in the case of Avatar (we took 8:30 to kill btw) you can have a wild streak of Firestarter procs that can really boost your damage output. This week I had a 50 DPS increase over my previous best attempt in T8 as a BLM, and I still think I could have done more had I not been dealing with mines.

Hey people,

Thanks for your answers.

Games atm just a healer as Main and am wondering about what DPS job I choose. Bard is out of the question for me. So Dragoon, BLM, Summoner Monk and would stand for election. Range or Meele does not matter. My FC only needs necessarily someone who does good DPS for T6-T9. Single target is more important than I think because AOE.

Hope you can help me with helpful answers and no Flames;)

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Originally Posted by Limani

SNIP SNIP

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Every single class brings something to a group !

BLM : AOE King, good ST damage after buff, increased DPS with Foe, can use Virus and Eye for an Eye. Cons : has to be immobile to bring max dps, only 1 offensive CD, rely on procs.
SMN : High DPS, mobile with Ruin2 when dots are up, high utility (EfE, Virus, Raise). Cons : Rotation significantly harder than BLM, burst given by Aetherflow stacks.

BRD : Highest utility in the game (Foe, Ballad, Paeon, Silence), good dps with high burst (5 offensive CD), best mobility (often used for a lot of mechanics ). Cons : ??? (No LB ?)

DRG : High dps on ST, best burst of the game (Blood for Blood gives +30%dmg), stuns (every 20s + spineshatter), Disembowel for increased dmg (for drg and bards). Cons : VERY position dependent for your combo.
MNK : Best DPS on ST, with slow acceleration, but top final speed. Cons : almost no AOE, no ranged attack, GL conservation is crucial.

even before patch, if you correctly play BLM you will be on par if not better than mnk/drg.. In my static my BLM was top dps then followed by DRG/MNK.

Why do people say that the SMN rotation is significantly harder. It's just as easy lol

But i have think BLM is the AOE-king? Whenn he's the AOE-King, why then he should be too Single Target King? A bit op, or not?

Always those silly remarks. Objectively, if both parties (for example BLM and DRG) played their classes equally well, the DRG would come out on top. Same goes for MNK and SMN, but in slightly higher proportions. People who claim that on their static the Black Mage was pulling more DPS than other classes, they just don't get the point. By no means is personal experience in one single group proof that the BLM had higher single target damage. SE knew objectively that the BLM's single target damage was too low and they were right to give us a boost. This was noted by a lot of Black Mages who are skilled at what they do and could not come close to other classes but Bard who are also equally skilled.

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Originally Posted by Eijii

even before patch, if you correctly play BLM you will be on par if not better than mnk/drg.. In my static my BLM was top dps then followed by DRG/MNK.

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Your playing with a bad Monk, if your Monk "played correctly" they would have done a lot more.

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Originally Posted by Limani

But i have think BLM is the AOE-king? Whenn he's the AOE-King, why then he should be too Single Target King? A bit op, or not?

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BLM is not even close to being ST king

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Originally Posted by ViviAnimus

Why do people say that the SMN rotation is significantly harder. It's just as easy lol

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-Dot clipping too early or too late affects dps greatly. If dots fall off, huge dps loss. Blm only has thunder as a dot, and it is part of their basic rotation during umbral ice phase.
-Micromanaging pet and their abilities. If pet dies, albeit rarely, huge dps loss again.
-Blm has a fixed rotation, summoner not so. If either has to move for some reason, blm's rotation mostly remains the same (maybe 1 less fire 1 if using scathe or transpose if SC flare) but its much more dynamic for smns.
-Less buttons to press for blm. I have all my blm spells and macros on 1 hotbar but need 2 hotbar for smn and their pet abilities.
-Many more cooldowns to keep track off for smn. Both classes have RS, but smn has contagion, SF, spur, rouse, enkindle, aetherflow in addition to the 3 basic dots.
-To achieve optimal dps for smn, they have to master certain small nuances like using contagion with M2, auto attacking when possible, keeping Shadowflare up 100% of the time and weaving in off gcd skills. To achieve optimal dps for blm, they have to master maximizing dps while moving, which for the most part is using a macro for AM and saving firestarter procs if you know you need to move soon, and of course using scathe. The latter feels much easier to me IMO.

There are probably a couple more but these are the primary ones mainly. I remember when I switched to smn from blm that it took me almost 2 weeks on my smn to achieve the same dps that I did on my blm, I was always forgetting to use aetherflow when it was off cooldown, forgetting shadowflare, and other minor stuff but these things all add up. Of course, after playing the class for a while now, these things come pretty naturally to me but i remember it was discouraging back then and I almost wanted to switch back to blm. But I'm glad I stuck to it cause I love how dynamically the class plays compared to blm. I'm pretty sure you are aware of all the things I mentioned above since you play smn as well so I think it all boils down to personal perspective. Just my 2 cents.

It took me literally one hour to get used to SMN and outDPS my BLM class. And by all means, I am definitely not a bad BLM. More things to look out for does not necessarily make it significantly harder. I guess the only mistake I made is that I am speaking from a personal perspective. Yes, there is more to look out for, no it's not that hard at all.

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Originally Posted by Limani

Hello guys,

i have there a question.

After Patch 2.3 is now my BLM really better then the Monks, Dragoons and Summoners in my Raid-group? Or only a little better Single DPS and not better in DPS then all other DPS-classes?

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our DPS varies depend on how much luck we have. none of the other jobs depend on luck as much as we do.

The only thing that would make summoner (imo) harder than blm is how clunky garuda feels with wind blade and contagion interaction. Otherwise its like any dps in the game really >_>; Keeping 3 dots up +SF and M2 isnt hard, hitting RS before hitting 1,2,3 isnt hard, using fester twice in that RS isnt hard, Hitting shift +4 to tell garuda to sit here while casting isnt hard, hitting shift +3 to tell garuda to come to you while casting or moving or w/e isnt hard. I don't understand why people think some jobs are more difficult than others.

If anything from the numbers i see people putting up... BLM looks to be the more difficult to play efficiently.

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Originally Posted by Xisin

If anything from the numbers i see people putting up... BLM looks to be the more difficult to play efficiently.

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To get all out of blm is alot harder than getting all out of smn. Also, blm's dps is hard to compare to others cause with luck you get TC proc every tick and with luck you can get FS proc after every fire I which ups the dps alot compared to not using/getting any procs.

And help new guy here, whats the "AM" people talk bout on blm?

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Originally Posted by AniCelestine

To get all out of blm is alot harder than getting all out of smn. Also, blm's dps is hard to compare to others cause with luck you get TC proc every tick and with luck you can get FS proc after every fire I which ups the dps alot compared to not using/getting any procs.

And help new guy here, whats the "AM" people talk bout on blm?

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AM is Aetherial Manipulation, the teleport skill.

My take on SMN vs BLM difficulty: SMN CD and DoT management is more complex (not necessarily harder but it's a fact there's more to be managed) by default, and it's more difficult to have perfect upkeep of DoTs/SF when you focus on mechanics or call outs - the upside is when it comes to doing said mechanics, it is easier to maintain high DPS if you can just keep the DoTs up. SMN is also very formulaic in the sense that if you do fights enough times, with the same team DPS, you'll basically do the same thing the entire fight, down to doing a specific DoT at specific time stamps.

BLM has far less going on when it comes to its attacking and especially CD management, but it's much more difficult to translate that rotation into a real fight since mobility is the largest factor in their DPS. BLM is about adapting to the situation more; adapting to how much MP you have left after Blizzard III, adapting to forced movement with Swiftcast or Aetherial Manipulation or saving a Firestarter/Thundercloud or using shield skills to eat the damage, adapting to procs, weighing the risk/reward of Flaring two targets against your current MP and CDs and the time frame the enemy will live, etc. At BLM's core it is just Fire spamming 50% of the time which is quite easy, but when it comes to the weaknesses BLM has, and you try to truly minimize them, it can be one of the hardest DPS to do really well with.

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Originally Posted by Limani

But i have think BLM is the AOE-king? Whenn he's the AOE-King, why then he should be too Single Target King? A bit op, or not?

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The recent buff moved them from below-average to average at single-target dps. If anything the purpose was to put them clearly above bards, a job which contributes considerable utility to a group, whereas BLM utility is low.

High AOE DPS is powerful in theory, but in reality has little (or no) bearing on clearing challenging content with tight DPS checks. Getting dungeons done quickly is a substantial quality of life improvement, but that's all. Single target damage is still the bread and butter of challenging content and BLM have to work hard to deal with their weakness to movement.

Don't put too much stock into what people report from their raid groups -- all it takes is one strong player of any class to completely throw off perceptions of how good that class is.

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Originally Posted by Viviza

Don't put too much stock into what people report from their raid groups -- all it takes is one strong player of any class to completely throw off perceptions of how good that class is.

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Basically this.

However, having said that, I parsed at 385 BLM DPS on T8 and I have to eat mines in the south quadrant and am responsible for hitting mine tower. Your millage may vary. Our mnk was at 420ish and we have a comparable ilvl.

I don't notice much difference on endgame content, but now I feel as uber in low level dungeons with BLM as I did playing PLD well before the patch.

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Originally Posted by Umero

our DPS varies depend on how much luck we have. none of the other jobs depend on luck as much as we do.

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Yeah, procs can make BLM's top tier.... I've always wondered if there's anything that improves the chance of a proc...that would be a gear upgrade to grind books for lol.

BLM is now king for burst on demand in coil. They were darn good before but now they are pretty well top of the line in contribution to coil groups as a whole. It's heavily dependent on party make up, but for those situations when you need a quick burst, filling a mage slot with blm is good.

A well rounded pt can cover each other's weak areas, where before 2nd coil really hurt blms outside of burst, now they are all around viable.

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Originally Posted by ViviAnimus

If you're a good BLM you should be on par with DRG. SMN is in my experience still a bit higher. MNK is still king

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Lemme correct that, DPS is RNG MECHANICS DEPENDANT, lemme see ur monk for example if :
1. t6 got vines in p1,p3 all time, devour icon in p2
2. t7 got voices and shrieks
3. t8 depends on ur static assignments
4. t9 divebombs and all reticle on your head

I'm pretty sure our GL3 crazed MNK in our static would like to talk to you about how unlucky he is lol

Anyway on topic, no OP, in t8 training dummy BLM dps range is below DRG at very lucky fire3 proc 5% of all time and below BRD at normal luck 95% of all time, theres no way a DPS who have +/- 100 DPS range is considered to number 1

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

BLM is now king for burst on demand in coil. They were darn good before but now they are pretty well top of the line in contribution to coil groups as a whole. It's heavily dependent on party make up, but for those situations when you need a quick burst, filling a mage slot with blm is good.

A well rounded pt can cover each other's weak areas, where before 2nd coil really hurt blms outside of burst, now they are all around viable.

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So you saying blm with cast time of 2.41(estimate) has better burst than DRG that has insta skills, alot of offGCD skills and quite many dmg boosting CD's (Surges, BfB[+30% dmg]). Interesting. Cause I'm pretty sure our drg does 1,2k with Lifesurge + Power surge alone with one jump. Add GCD skills(one before and one after) + one other offGCD skill after the 2nd GCD, and it easily beats blm's 2 Fire I casts(2GCD's), cause procs aren't reliable for burst.

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Originally Posted by Empressia

Lemme correct that, DPS is RNG MECHANICS DEPENDANT, lemme see ur monk for example if :
1. t6 got vines in p1,p3 all time, devour icon in p2
2. t7 got voices and shrieks
3. t8 depends on ur static assignments
4. t9 divebombs and all reticle on your head

I'm pretty sure our GL3 crazed MNK in our static would like to talk to you about how unlucky he is lol

Anyway on topic, no OP, in t8 training dummy BLM dps range is below DRG at very lucky fire3 proc 5% of all time and below BRD at normal luck 95% of all time, theres no way a DPS who have +/- 100 DPS range is considered to number 1

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It's not +/- 100 DPS, on most 4m+ sustained pulls it's not even +/- 20 DPS. 500 is not at all unreasonable to score in T8 as BLM in max gear, and outside of MNK no other class including DRG can hope to consistently reach that (except for insane crits on a very lucky parse). BRD should also be doing the least of anyone, I'm not sure if you meant BLM loses to BRD in 95% of training dummy pulls but if you did that is completely false - I play with HA BRDs capable of near 400 DPS without DRG's buff, and they can't win in T6-8, much less a training dummy.

In dummy situations, like t8, MNK is still king, but BLM is really not that far behind. Actually, BLM may be better even in t8 because the BRD does not have to play Peon, he can now just throw up another requiem, boosting ALL caster DPS. In most other fights though, BLM is King.

I haven't really been playing or paying attention much to SMN since the patch but if they do indeed beat BLM, then, like I was worried about, SE screwed up with this patch. I'm going to hang up my MNK now and just focus on my BLM, except for the occasional rare dummy fights.

Maybe you should focus on getting better teammates instead.