Just saw a lion mount running by for the first time and when I looked into it I found that:
A tankless job was put in place to help create an influx of tanks since we lack them for instance queuing.
I find that I spend most of my time tanking so I take a look at the achievement and I have 10/50 as a Paladin and 0/50 as a Warrior! HUH?
So this is limited to Primal EX and Coil. Can someone please explain to me why if we need an influx of tanks across the board, why is this achievement limited to so little of the games content? No wonder there was 0 influx in tanks and the queues are still long as hell. This makes absolutely no sense.
A Tankless Job
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07-09-2014, 08:46 AMJonny_TapasA Tankless Job
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07-09-2014, 09:22 AMJarvix
Makes as much sense as the introduction of another DPS Class. Like we really need another one in the the queues.
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07-09-2014, 10:21 AMEltaire
I thought that the Achievement was linked to doing Low Level and High Level Duty Roulette as a Tank?
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07-09-2014, 10:37 AMPots_Talos
Everyone I know who has gotten the mount just runs T4 over and over and over.
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07-09-2014, 10:44 AMAlatarian
A friend of mine got hers just by tanking t4 ad nauseam and also extremes. I am pretty sure she doesn't que for any of that stuff anymore heh heh.
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07-09-2014, 10:46 AMKaonis
SE needs to seriously learn that adding rewards won't entice people to play a class, making a class that's fun to play in the first place will make people play it. But as it stands being a tank is the shit job in almost all content, is the most stressful, and when you mess up something it's the most obvious and you tend to get the most ridicule because of it. I've been leaning more and more away from tanking because of just how frustrating I find it in this game compared to most other MMO's I've played. It's just really not that fun, nor worth the stress I tend to go through.
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07-09-2014, 10:57 AMMarcu18
You’re right Kaonis! A fun class will have more people playing that. Square Enix may need help to tanking fun. They can ask Dc Universe for advice,tips, innovation and creativity! It wouldn’t be bad if they admit they need help and asked for it. Cause if the trend continues of people stop tanking, there will be little to no tanks at all! Meaning no one can run dungeons. Tanking is a important job just like everything else. Square Enix if you are reading this and you don’t know want to about the tanking problem?…. Ask someone! People from Dc, Guild wars,etc..
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07-09-2014, 11:06 AMAlatarian
I think they are slowly getting it but not much. I say this because I did all the new dungeons yesterday and one of them actually had a tanking-is-optional fight! I said "yay" because usually the drone of mindlessly pulling trash and or just standing about watching stuff spank you does get old quick. Other content of course has you jumping through hoops but by and large they get old fast too.
Like most tanks I have stopped doing it unless I need a fast que for some tomes. This was a trend that started back when I played on JP servers as well. Not sure what SE can do to make it better and not break their "intended" play design. -
07-09-2014, 11:09 AMMarcu18
Dc Universe doesn’t have this problem. That’d why i say ask them. They know how to do it right. I don’t tank. Healer has been the thing i wanted to do..
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07-09-2014, 10:48 PMSolrakQuote:
Originally Posted by Kaonis
That's very far from the true... Tanks are not shitty jobs, tanks are the most challenging job in this game (and fun once you play it well) and that's why many ppl is so afraid of trying it. -
07-09-2014, 11:27 PMKaonisI completely disagree. I've been tanking since beta and it's really just not that fun after a while. Early dungeons were fun, but once I hit endgame it's become one of the worst experiences ever. One large part is just the poor combat design and unresponsiveness of the controls. It really feels like the pace of combat is split, where enemies move and get to act faster than the players do. The gear itemization is poor too, gearing up is boring as my options of mitigation gear is....parry. There's nothing else to pick from. Tanks feel like a glorified DPS half the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Solrak
Tanking in this game is just unrewarding, not fun, and all of the "challenge" comes from bad design. -
07-09-2014, 11:56 PMjoeakrazo
I enjoy tanking in FFXI and now in FFXIV (PLD and MRD). I am still a mid-level tank so I will see if my tune changes in time over more content. I've done a lot of PUG and for the most part all have been fairly understanding.
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07-10-2014, 12:02 AMEvilHippie
Sure, lets blame bad design again because you don't like something. Maybe you just don't like it. Opinions are yours. Do not blame the Design of something because you do not enjoy it. That is the same as saying spoons made one fat.
I have tanked since 1.0, done a lot of endgame content though i do not have a static anymore. I still don't have these mounts, nor am i close. I run roulettes almost everyday as a tank job. So to answer the OP's question, NO. This is all based on endgame content such as coils and ex primals. -
07-10-2014, 12:27 AMSolrakQuote:
Originally Posted by Kaonis
Yes, you like them blondes, I like em brunettes... Then get a blonde gf...
If you don't like it, don't play it... I've been tanking since beta too and after trying all jobs this is by far the most challenging (war) if find pld boring but that's just me, I don't like having just one combo.
Anyway... I repeat, there are few tanks an healers because ppl is afraid of trying, and you know this game, if you fail... You get in a cloud of bullying the rest of the fight -
07-10-2014, 01:35 AMEnyetoJust want to share my experience here. I have had this game since Saturday 7/5/2014. I have a 26 Lancer, then a Thaumaturge and became fed up with impossible queues, just to complete quest advancement. I gave up on DPS classes and it's been years since I've been able to play a damage, directly caused by the above comments by Solrak. However I've got the balls to play a tank, yet again, despite wanting to enjoy a game for once, from a different perspective.Quote:
Originally Posted by Solrak
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07-10-2014, 01:37 AMEnyeto
The facts are straight forward: Playing DPS requires 0 skill and less awareness. I have played many games with lackluster players pushing decent numbers by following someones DPS guide and gear list. The majority of these players are dumb as rocks and really lost their edge when new content was released; because no one was spoon-feeding how to adapt. The sheer exertion it takes to memorize the information, positioning, timing, timers, etc. as a Tank (and occasionally healers) is so high, that it does limit interest. It's a responsibility role at it's core, and I have found myself spending my time online queuing for randoms as I level up to start gearing out and have nearly instant commencements because of it.
In the end, I chose Tank because I wish to drive my game play; and not wait for someone else to consider, possibly somewhere down the line, standing up and taking the same action. You should thank your Tank and Healers because they are sacrificing fun play, so you can enjoy it. -
07-10-2014, 03:21 AMAshkendorThe things you listed there don't apply to all DPS. A DPS with zero awareness of his positioning and what's going on around him is simply a bad player. It gimps his damage, it makes him take hits that he could easily dodge, and it makes him a burden to the rest of the party. The thing is, there's bad players in every role. I'm a tank main myself (i99 PLD) but I do have reasonably well geared WHM/SCH and DRG. I've seen it from all sides and no, DPS is not just about hitting stuff mindlessly till it's dead. Hard DPS checks mean that you have to know your rotation; you have to know what to hit and when. If an add gets on the healer, I try to pull it off of them with my DRG, or at least stun and kill it so that they don't die. I try to stun annoying AoE abilities. There's many ways to be a good DPS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enyeto
Honestly, in a lot of the endgame content the tank (specifically the main tank) has it very easy. You stand there, you keep aggro, and you play punching bag. Titan HM is a great example of this. There's an "In Depth Tanking Guide" to Titan HM floating around on somewhere that consists of "Just stand there" as a response for basically every one of his actions. On the whole, that isn't entirely inaccurate. A lot of the time you DO just stand there. I don't think tank is any more difficult to play well than any other role; it simply has a lot of responsibility attached to it like healer does. Most of my problems that I have as a tank come from dealing with idiots (I'm looking at you, CT tank wars...), but you get that no matter what class you play; it's hardly specific to the tanking role.
Personally, I enjoy tanking and I don't see it as sacrificing my fun. I see it as a chance to work together with people that enjoy the other roles in the game so that we can explore and clear content in a cooperative way. -
07-10-2014, 03:23 AMjoeakrazoThat's a little more than harsh and pretty much sums up a lot of bad generalizations going around. In my line of work there is a saying that goes "If it's working right, no one will notice you."Quote:
Originally Posted by Enyeto
You may have chosen tank for the wrong reasons and end up bitter in the end. Sacrificing fun for other people's enjoyment is not why I got in to this job, nor is it the low wait time. I really do love tanking (and all aspects of it) because it's fun. :)Quote:
In the end, I chose Tank because I wish to drive my game play; and not wait for someone else to consider, possibly somewhere down the line, standing up and taking the same action. You should thank your Tank and Healers because they are sacrificing fun play, so you can enjoy it.
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07-10-2014, 03:47 AMSolrakQuote:
Originally Posted by Ashkendor
I'm not going to be that dramatic to say that dps requires 0 skill... No... There are good dps and bad dps too, as you can find good tanks and bad tanks... The thing for me is that if a dps fails... Party has a very high chance of survival. If a tank or a healer fails, that chance is reduced to almost 0%. That my friend, it's a big responsibility that many ppl is afraid of taking.
And what are you telling about the tank just stands there is very far from the truth!! Yeah... Titan hard mode is like that... But any other primal, coil and endgame thing depends on tank position and adaptation to survivability... -
07-10-2014, 03:59 AMAshkendorI'm talking specifically about your MT. Typically most of the burden falls on your OT for things like picking up adds and stunning annoying abilities. Ifrit HM - just stand there. Ramuh HM - Just stand there. Bone Dragon - just stand there. King Behemoth - just stand there. Caduceus - just stand there. There's a lot of things that simply require you to keep the mob still, avoid floor candy of various flavors, and pop the occasional cooldown while the OT (if you have one), DPS and healers do their thing. We all have our roles. :3Quote:
Originally Posted by Solrak
Am I saying tanking takes zero skill? Of course not. It's just not as hard as most people think, and to say that DPS requires no skill by comparison (as the person I was replying to did) is dead wrong. -
07-10-2014, 04:29 AMEnyetoThank you for standing up for the <1%. They do need that justification, which I thought I made clear earlier. Not every dps is like my statement, but the vast majority wait for the top 1% to trickle down information. Of the rest, you can count on 60%-70% not truly understanding the role and how to adjust/adapt. And that will always remain the majority. But dps, vs. healing or tanking is fundamentally easier, with less responsibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashkendor
Thank you for your concern, but I do enjoy tanking. As my personal preference I don't want to tank my entire gaming career. I'd like to play the stabber instead of the stabee for a while, without having grueling queue times and always LF Tank / LF HealsQuote:
Originally Posted by joeakrazo
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07-10-2014, 06:01 AMAshkendorNo argument there. I DPS when I don't feel like having the responsibility of tanking or healing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enyeto
Or when there's a bonus for queueing DPS in a roulette. :3
Find a tank buddy. That's the best way especially now that expert/high level roulettes are doable in party.Quote:
Thank you for your concern, but I do enjoy tanking. As my personal preference I don't want to tank my entire gaming career. I'd like to play the stabber instead of the stabee for a while, without having grueling queue times and always LF Tank / LF Heals
I agree DPS queues are ridiculous - I did FATE grind from 1-50 on my DRG. -
07-10-2014, 06:03 AMOrophin
Tanks get instant queues for nearly everything, so simply put, there aren't enough of them, especially compared to the ratio of DPS queuing. This was something implemented to get more people to try tanking. Whether it's had the desired results, it's hard to say.
You still get tanks dropping queues if they don't get something they like, but this is a player created problem and not something SE can fix, apart from placing harsher penalties on ditching.
You can tell the people who picked up a tank class purely for convenience or necessity over those who genuinely like it. -
07-10-2014, 11:53 AMAstralos
Paladin was my first class to 50. While I normally enjoy tanking a lot, all the horrible behavior that I've endured in Duty Finder parties and roulettes while leveling and gearing my tank classes has made me decide NEVER to do it again except in parties of all friends.
SE can throw all the shiny new mounts, minions, achievements, etc. they want at me to try and entice me to queue up as tank. It just isn't worth it to me. -
07-10-2014, 04:27 PMMoonwolfthegrey
I think all classes require an equal ammount of skill to play them to their maximum potential.
Tanking is not harder than dpsing or healing, nor does it involve just standing there and can be quite challenging. In the end the difference is that if u make a simple mistake ( which could be forgetting to pop a CD in later ex fights) u can insta die, which usually results In an insta wipe :)
Try to remember all the primal fights and coils , how many times do Dps die per fight, quite a bit but they get raised and the fight goes on, however u simply can\\'t die which also depends on the skill of the healer.
So in short people throw abuse on tanks and so forth only because their mistakes are more obvious to see for everyone.
Dps and healers can be making mistakes all the time in a fight but u wouldn\\'t notice them:)
In the end I think it is fair that u got to do ex primals and coil for the mount , not everything in this game should be -
07-10-2014, 04:28 PMMoonwolfthegrey
thrown to u after a couple of days play, where would the sense of achievement be then
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07-10-2014, 11:49 PMEnyetoI think we're definitely in agreement here. I wanted to play DRG also, since Lancer is still my highest class until tonight. In Rift, when you queued for dungeons you would be able to select the roles you are capable of filling. (i.e. If I had a tank build, a healer build and a dps build, I could select all 3 options to queue for.) In this game, you have to 'lock' the role you are queuing with. It would be a nice addition at lv.50 to push all experience gained into a secondary class of your selection, or evenly distribute to all lower than lv50 classes you have initiated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashkendor
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07-11-2014, 08:21 AMVWintons
I've been playing MRD/WAR since I started back in April and I love it. I don't understand where these ideas of stress and boredom are coming from. Burning through trash mobs does get old, but finding ways to maximize DPS (AoE spam large pulls, optimizing rotations) while holding hate or recovering from/dealing with bad players mistakes/ignorance can keep it interesting.
The real fun is in tanking the endgame boss fights. I don't watch the strategy videos and just learn the fights by trial and error with my FC/pugs. It is VERY satisfying when a group successfully executes your strategy and makes progress in a fight. When you finally have it all figured out and actually clear it, you really feel like you've accomplished something and helped other people accomplish something too. -
07-11-2014, 02:04 PMAshkendorYES. So much this. All of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by VWintons
I love brand-new content cause then I get to explore it with my FC with no expectations at all. ^^ -
07-11-2014, 02:26 PMLashaThat's not because tanking requires any special skill. Its because of the trinity mechanic where tanks have a button that says "ignore the guy killing me and bash my skull in for no reason". I'm still learning to tank but its about the same as playing my DPS properly; just easier in some fights by nature of doing nothing but standing around instead of running rotations while avoiding AOE.Quote:
Originally Posted by Solrak
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07-11-2014, 03:41 PMAlorealActually as i see it a tank is the one that needs to either know all the fights beforehand, at least an idea of an idea by video or be really able to pick it up fast as they go.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lasha
the main point why people do not pick up a tank is the responsibility behind it, not the complexity of it. As soon as you pick it up you are given a position to pick up everything and make it work.
Look at raid guilds even in different games. the leader is usually a tank, charismatic and a good leader either by natural or by learning it as he went.
that and the fact that dps have better looking attacks and draws the vain people to it most of the times.
granted that in ff most of the fights are mechanics based and once someone learns the main way to do it its usually a breeze and that takes part of the responsibility off the tank -
07-11-2014, 04:28 PMJonBigwoodThe fact that only EX Primals and Coil count for the tank mount means that the developers wanted to incentivate with the mount tanks to do that content (and not other.) In other content you have the adventurer in need incentive given by roulettes. I suppose tanks are more scarce in EX Primals and Coil, end game players may have several jobs, some players comment that they only tank when they go with their friends, and play other jobs with PUGs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonny_Tapas
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07-11-2014, 05:01 PMks3v3nbasicly this. most good tanks i know (and there aren't a lot of them ;) ), dont even dare to run pugs/pickups/dfs or what ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonBigwood
i myself am a tank4life, i love to challenge myself with pve/pvp content. and when the content is so freakin easy like at this game, where you get bored very fast as an above average tank, its fun to "accept the challenge" running with random ppl. jumpin into a df or pickup group, where you dont know the healer/dps, still clearing a raid/instance with newbies or undergeared ppl, struggling healers, dps gone wild tryin to be paper tank railgunning everything and still you tank the shit out of the mobs ... thats just sooo much fun. i do even jump into the roulettes after my daily one, 'cause i know the freakin long queue times for dps, just to help out some others.
i think its a spirit, you have to be a born tank to enjoy tankin at every aspect like we do and tankin isnt just about holding aggro. tankin is a lot more:
- preparation
- situation awarness
- protecting your group
- calming influence
- knowledge of all classes, when they do what and how
- pain resistance
- the mindset to keep improving yourself and your group, with every next hour you play a game
i'm playin the tankclass (and all classes, too. since i have to ^^ see above) for about 12 years now, i'll keep playin them as long as they'll be present at mmo's and i enjoy it =)