A way we can help lower que times.

I was going to post something different but then I came up with a brilliant idea.
Why not make the rewards for adventurers in need "much greater" if they que alone?

For the most part, DPS who que alone for certain things can get really bad que times.
Speaking as a tank though, I would love to help more people get shorter ques even if they are not from my server, but I don't feel the rewards are good enough.

Give adventurers in need that choose to que solo very high rewards based on how desperate the duty finder system is for the role needed. For example, more gold, more soldiery, or even special items that can only be earned by doing this.

If you don't like this idea, maybe take it a step further. Maybe still have the rewards be very high but you can only bring ONE friend to que with you and only also if their role is highly desired. For example.... Two Tanks queing for trials or A tank and healer queing for dungeons.

¿que?

/10 char

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Originally Posted by Aegis

¿que?

/10 char

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Khew? Khew?

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

This suggestion really came off to me as meaning; "More rewards for tanks"

You, OP, might be a nice player and willing to help folk, but there are already enough (tanks) out there who treat other players in dungeons like they are little more than automatons or npc's, and a huge sense of entitlement to go with their already short queue times.

The suggestion also reminds me of the "trickle down theory" wherein we give more money to the RICH because SURELY they'll share it with the poor!

Regarding ALL players in this scheme, we don't need more fancy rewards for doing ONE thing, we need more BALANCED rewards so people don't do ONLY ONE THING or quit after they grabbed the carrot on the string.

To improve queue times, the balance between melee and ranged dps needs to be better. This will begin to improve after the initial surge of rogue/ninjas fades back after patch 2.4.

Your right my idea is bad and I should feel bad. I'm going to throw us all into Anarchy.

I think we already play with people from other worlds(although i would like they put them together and had different phases like Dc universe), but maybe if they make some dungeons solo so that people can play and beat them. Like Titan, Twintania, Whorleater and Turn 4.

past few days has been abnoxiously horrible. Average wait time 8 minutes but wait an hour. The other day i was in queue 1hr and a half until i pulled out, tried again later and waited another hr.
Also bad was waiting, searching for new member and then just get pulled completely out of queue. Perhaps due to maintenance something is up? It has never been great but never this bad

The only reason the adventurer in need is almost always a tank is because a lot less people play tanks. Though obvious, I think this needs to be said because the sense of "entitlement," as you call it, did not materialize out of thin air. Pure cause and effect. It doesn't mean that tanks should be jerks but they'll obviously be less inclined to stay in a group with a bunch of bad or grouchy people (perhaps grouchy because of their hour long queues). And why are there less tanks? One reason is because many new tanks have trouble holding hate or doing speed runs and get put down.

Many jerks are created because people were jerks to them. What goes around comes around. I'm not saying it's right but I'll say what I've always said: Karma is just one domino falling into another. You can't encourage tanks to be nice by generalizing that all tanks are entitled. This is a kind of distorted thinking and furthermore you're starting out with a negative attitude likely to turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I'm sure I'll get lots of hate for saying this and "oh look she's a tank" but I'm just trying to share the other point of view. I don't expect others to change, I try to change myself. I don't expect others to create kind of world I want to live in, I try to create the world I want to live in.

Please consider the following solutions (it will take time and patience for them to pay off)

- You could play a tank (faster queue times and you can be a different, nicer kind of tank)
- You could continue to play a dps (and be nice to new/bad tanks and/or not command/complain/expect a new/bad tank to speedrun)

And back to OPs original point, yes the current reward system is a nice bonus. It is some incentive to play a tank but I honestly could make that in <1 min crafting so more would definitely be better (again tank's perspective hehe so kind of biased :) )

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Originally Posted by Maero

past few days has been abnoxiously horrible. Average wait time 8 minutes but wait an hour. The other day i was in queue 1hr and a half until i pulled out, tried again later and waited another hr.
Also bad was waiting, searching for new member and then just get pulled completely out of queue. Perhaps due to maintenance something is up? It has never been great but never this bad

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Are you talking about CT?

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Originally Posted by RakaMaimhov

You, OP, might be a nice player and willing to help folk, but there are already enough (tanks) out there who treat other players in dungeons like they are little more than automatons or npc's, and a huge sense of entitlement to go with their already short queue times.

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You apparently don't have much experience seeing it from the other side. Jerk DPS and healers are every bit as rampant.
If you want to run your way and instantly queue, then you pick up a tank class. It's that simple.

But now you're responsible for the run. That's just how it is in everyone's eyes. You better not have demands of the group or do anything differently than they've seen before. If people found it easy and rewarding they wouldn't be in such high demand.

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To improve queue times, the balance between melee and ranged dps needs to be better. This will begin to improve after the initial surge of rogue/ninjas fades back after patch 2.4.

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That has nothing to do with queue times except for PVP matches.

To OP:
Maybe bigger rewards would help get more tanks in. But if huge reductions in queue times and the enhanced rewards already aren't enough...I think you'll have a tough time even with expanded rewards.

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Originally Posted by Aaron_T

Give adventurers in need that choose to que solo very high rewards based on how desperate the duty finder system is for the role needed. For example, more gold, more soldiery, or even special items that can only be earned by doing this.

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If they just give more stuff based on how many tanks (or other roles) are needed, it's then able to be abused, as tanks become more likely to wait longer to join a roulette until the reward is up to a level that they actually want.

It would be better to add the Adventurer In Need bonus to every dungeon, raid, and trial, as well as straight up increasing the roulette reward. Rather than doing one dungeon per day per roulette and only getting the reward once, the tank is then free to do multiple runs to help out in multiple dungeons. On top of that, more dungeons are more likely to have Healer In Need and DPS In Need rewards to help out with new tanks that are trying to level up.

Why do you need a greater reward to help someone in need? Doesn't sound like you REALLY want to help....

And like others have said here, that's just unfair if the reward gets any higher.

Or maybe, just maybe people can stop playing the easier roles and actually have a desire to take up some responsibility. Adding bigger rewards are band-aid fixes. Quite frankly, it's a society problem than a game problem, people want to be lazy and take the path of least resistance. Look at all the Don't tell me how to play/I play how I want threads, people crying about simplistic rewards at fanfest, and all the unnecessary nerf cry threads, a clear form of self entitled mentality. That excuse of "it's just a game" is a heavily abused line. It's a line I see most lazy people use when they refuse to watch a video for EX and T5+ and/or any form of real criticism (hence the I play how I want mentality).

TLDR more people play tanks and healers without extra rewards. Take the more difficult path for once and as a whole queue times will drop.

They could add a new achievement:

-Tank 1000 dungeons
Reward: Title - Sir Tim Howard

I'm not sure it's that simple, really. This game isn't a case of "stop being lazy and bad", it's a case of design issues from the ground up. This is SE's first stab at this kind of grouping, and it shows. Tank classes that barely have any tanking abilities until higher levels, only two classes being able to tank and no new ones on the horizon, there's some design problems present that keeps people from not just playing tank classes, but from playing them inside of instances. I can't tell you how many gladiator\paladins I see roaming FATES because it's just less stress for them than joining an instance, especially at lower levels.


Add that to party sizes just being too small... 4 person parties was a terrible idea, when the standard is 5 and SE's own earlier party size was 6. There would be lower queue times with larger party size.

In short, adding more rewards won't really make more people put on their tank job. Working on tank design so it feels more cohesive from level 1-50 and adding more jobs that tank in interesting ways will lower those queue times. Tall orders, but those are really the only long-term solutions. Anything else is just a bribe that most players will become bored of in a week.

Well maybe they do need more incentive. In the real world the person in charge gets the better pay, incentives, benefits and so on. A description of tank is that they run the party, decide what to attack, where to go, basically running the show. They are the first one into the fray and setup the mobs for attacks keeping them away from the party. If the party fails the tank most of the time takes the blame, even when its not their fault.

I went into Brayflox for the first time the other day as part of the main story line was a bit of a debocle at first but made it through. At the end I came out with nothing other than exp, big deal I could do that outside of the dungeon in less time it took in there. So why waste my time going back in there again all for nothing. Maybe it was my fault that I didn't jump on any of the loot quickly enough, but sheeze it was like Wal-Mart on black Friday bum rushing the place.

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Originally Posted by Aaron_T

I was going to post something different but then I came up with a brilliant idea.
Why not make the rewards for adventurers in need "much greater" if they que alone?

For the most part, DPS who que alone for certain things can get really bad que times.
Speaking as a tank though, I would love to help more people get shorter ques even if they are not from my server, but I don't feel the rewards are good enough.

Give adventurers in need that choose to que solo very high rewards based on how desperate the duty finder system is for the role needed. For example, more gold, more soldiery, or even special items that can only be earned by doing this.

If you don't like this idea, maybe take it a step further. Maybe still have the rewards be very high but you can only bring ONE friend to que with you and only also if their role is highly desired. For example.... Two Tanks queing for trials or A tank and healer queing for dungeons.

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Because tanks are not spoiled enough as is right?

The incentive is you can insta Q, and people still don't do it.
You snow flake DPS are funny.

If you spent a fraction of the time you have spent in Q leveling a tank.... this wouldn't be an issue.

Long ass post, I apologise. But sometimes, it helps to think about the actual problems rather than just saying there is one.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

I'm not sure it's that simple, really. This game isn't a case of "stop being lazy and bad", it's a case of design issues from the ground up. This is SE's first stab at this kind of grouping, and it shows. Tank classes that barely have any tanking abilities until higher levels, only two classes being able to tank and no new ones on the horizon, there's some design problems present that keeps people from not just playing tank classes, but from playing them inside of instances. I can't tell you how many gladiator\paladins I see roaming FATES because it's just less stress for them than joining an instance, especially at lower levels.

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I have tanked every single 4 man dungeon in the game, on both Paladin and Warrior, at some point. I have had very few issues with handling enmity against any part of them, even the ones before you get decent tanking abilities. Where they may have been issues (I can't recall any specific ones because it's uncommon), it is usually the fault of the damage dealers who insist that 3 comes before 1, or from over aggressive play, particularly from synced down lv50 players. I've also done the low level dungeons as a damage dealer and as a healer class, and have noticed that many tanks do struggle at holding enmity, even when I know that 1 comes before 3 and do my best to help them manage their threat levels.

There is this misinformation floating about, propagated by players like yourself, that tanking is hard/dull/not-important at low levels and I'm fairly sure these players are reading it and thinking to themselves "Oh, then I best no try very hard because there's not much point/it's not fun/it's not possible". I've had lengthy after dungeon chats with a few players who have noticed the same thing (tanks that can't tank well), and I've even brought it up during runs to try offer assistance only to be met with "But Gladiator/Paladin isn't a good tank [without Shield Oath], and that Marauder/Warrior is easier [to tank the many trash mobs]". And it's plain crap.

It requires knowing what you are doing, keeping yourself updated in gear, monitoring the information you have on screen (enmity bars are a big help) and reacting to them before things get out of control. It also helps to communicate with other players to help you out, and if necessary, let them learn the hard way if that fails. All of those can help (and this isn't supposed to be a tank guide).

It's mostly laziness or bad players or players who have given up because they've read something somewhere and they believe it to be gospel truth, and that's my experience of it.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

Add that to party sizes just being too small... 4 person parties was a terrible idea, when the standard is 5 and SE's own earlier party size was 6. There would be lower queue times with larger party size.

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It doesn't matter if a dungeon is 4 people, 2 people, 6, 8, 20, 300... The content is designed around a specific set up. All this would do is simply allow 2 extra DPS into the same party. But there is a limit to how many instances exist at any given time (have you even noticed how, even with a full party, you need to wait a minute or two sometimes before going into some content?). I don't know enough about how this system is set up to give a definite answer, but if it's set up to also take into account the amount of data being processed, the number of instances available may actually decrease to account for the increase in data processed per instance. So, it may not even change a thing, or it may make things worse.

Basically, there's far more involved that we don't see or know about, to be able to state as fact, that a bigger party size would change anything, let alone reduce queue times.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

In short, adding more rewards won't really make more people put on their tank job. Working on tank design so it feels more cohesive from level 1-50 and adding more jobs that tank in interesting ways will lower those queue times. Tall orders, but those are really the only long-term solutions. Anything else is just a bribe that most players will become bored of in a week.

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The best way to make any job feel more interesting in the journey from 1 to 50 would be to unlock all of the abilities and skills they have (you can add in the learned skills in the current fashion, this is simply the basic 15 skills you get from your class). It would give any role a lot more to do regardless of their actual level, and all that would change would be the strength of the attack. Maybe some traits can still exist to change how the class plays.

But that directly affects the design policies that exist: in this case, that the game from level 1 to 50 allows you to build upon previous knowledge you have acquired, as you make your way to the end game content where the main part of the game takes place - as expansions are added, the content is likely to continue building on this fact and you can see that from the post-Main Scenario story additions which are all level 50 focused.

It's not that tanks are "dull" to play at early levels, it's that experienced players are used to handling more actions/situations at a time and that losing out on abilities after you have gained them is like a step backwards for them (this is why one suggestion I've read is that we keep the skills, because they would just be weaker - but that would affect content design which is based around having specific abilities available). You could add a tank in that drew it's enmity by performing magic tricks for the enemies, but because you will be limited to a specific set of skills at any given level value, it will still feel "dull" because you have become used to having more things.

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Originally Posted by Staris

The incentive is you can insta Q, and people still don't do it.
You snow flake DPS are funny.

If you spent a fraction of the time you have spent in Q leveling a tank.... this wouldn't be an issue.

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Why does it make us a snowflake dps for wanting to play the job we like within a reasonable time frame? It is still an issue because even by leveling a tank, we're still playing a job that isn't entirely what we'd like to be doing just to circumvent the abhorrent queue times. And please, no speeches about how tanks/healers take on more responsibility in the party dynamic. We hear all about it from almost every tank or healer we come across, as if having that god complex makes you better than anyone else who decides to play a damage dealing job.

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Originally Posted by Themis

a huge wall of text

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Oh, we have another one here. /sigh

Ok, you are super-player that never ever had an issue ever once and you have done everything that there ever has been to do. Congratulations.

For the rest of the playerbase that is already nervous about going into a dungeon with 3 other potentially abusive players (let's face it, XIV is pretty toxic which is ironic since the #1 comment I used to read on the XI forums was how toxic the community in OTHER games was and how MATURE and NON-ELITIST Final Fantasy players were), getting limited abilities to deal with monsters while learning dungeons and how best to handle groups is not the easiest thing in the world - ESPECIALLY with those ilvl 90+ people syncing down as you acknowledged. I never once said it was hard\dull\not important. I said it wasn't DESIGNED well, and all you need to do is a quick google search to find most of the mmo reviewers at large in agreement.

It needs to be REASONABLY manageable for the average player to invite more people to try it. As it is, some folks give it a go, get yelled at by their groups, and go FATE until they are higher level when the better mob-managing abilities kick in or they just quit it altogether and play as another class.

I, too, have tanked, healed, or DPS'd those low level dungeons and there are exceptional players, bad players, and most fall somewhere in the middle who could really be helped out by more considerate tank design. You should go see how other mmos have handled the issues XIV is just learning about. You might be surprised.

Ok well so much for that idea then.

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Originally Posted by NyneAlexander

Why does it make us a snowflake dps for wanting to play the job we like within a reasonable time frame? It is still an issue because even by leveling a tank, we're still playing a job that isn't entirely what we'd like to be doing just to circumvent the abhorrent queue times. And please, no speeches about how tanks/healers take on more responsibility in the party dynamic. We hear all about it from almost every tank or healer we come across, as if having that god complex makes you better than anyone else who decides to play a damage dealing job.

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You don't want responsibility for anything but yourself that's fine. But when the majority of people think that way too you end up with tank and healer shortages like we've got.
Without reworking all of the dungeons in the game, what's going to get additional people to take on expanded responsibility to alleviate this situation, if not expanded rewards?


A thing of note is that Sycrus tower is 1 tank, 2 healers, 5 DPS.

Just make tanks more fun to play.

My main has been PLD since 2.0, and I still don't find executing the typical 1 - 2 - 3 rotation over the course of a 13 minute long boss fight to be fun. WAR's have a little bit more of diversity in their rotation though.
Lately I find myself wondering if I should queue for my daily roulettes as a to actually have some fun, or if I should go tank to get bored to death and receive a whopping 4500 Gil reward. Luckily I'm able to play as a MNK on T8, because of the single tank strat, so I guess that's something.

Your not wrong OP. Put some extra myth on the adventurer and need and I'd be all over tanking. But for a couple K gil? No thanks I'll take my easy mode scholar queues and leave my tanking to raids.

Nothing would change really. There are two main problems that causes this shortage.
Tanking is not fun for a lot of people, especially on a PLD and the party composition for dungeons is all wrong. It should have been 1/1/3 not 1/1/2. Sure SE couldn't predict when they first designed the dungeons before launch but a few months after that the writing was on the wall. They redid a bunch of dungeons with HM versions and introduced new ones. Still 1/1/2. Couldn't they at least experiment with one dungeon and see how it goes?

I don't get this Ranged/Melee DPS in regular queue thing at all.

I know for PvP you get 1 melee and 1 ranged dps.
But for regular roulettes, lately I been only getting ranged dps :x which is nice since they don't need positioning and I can dance around the mobs all I want avoiding the AOEs/conals.

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Originally Posted by Chihaya

I don't get this Ranged/Melee DPS in regular queue thing at all.

I know for PvP you get 1 melee and 1 ranged dps.
But for regular roulettes, lately I been only getting ranged dps :x which is nice since they don't need positioning and I can dance around the mobs all I want avoiding the AOEs/conals.

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The game tries pretty hard to match 1 melee, 1 ranged. Try DFing a few 4 man dungeons as a monk then as a bard and you'll very very clearly see this in action, ranged DPS have a much longer wait than melee.

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Originally Posted by Phantasmid

The game tries pretty hard to match 1 melee, 1 ranged. Try DFing a few 4 man dungeons as a monk then as a bard and you'll very very clearly see this in action, ranged DPS have a much longer wait than melee.

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Too bad then, I only queue as tank and healer if either are the adventure in need. DPS bonus is a trap D: