Just sayin... (SMN)

First off, I'd just like to mention that I am aware that there have been other posts of this nature, however, as a member of this community, I too, deserve to say what's on MY mind.

When I first heard about this game, I was so excited. Not because it was Final Fantasy, but because of the summoner job. By far my favorite job in all of Final Fantasy. I felt that I was FINALLY going to be able to play a game with an awesome summoner class, with summons that had good functionality AND visual representation.

But, what did I get? I got this..little...gardening tool thingie. Ifrit looks about as useful as a weed remover. Titan looks about as useful as a hoe. And Garuda looks like a nice bug repellent. Titan is supposed to be tanky, but a boss can kill him off rather quickly, as well as about 3 dungeon mobs. and ifrit's dps isn't even worthwhile with how quickly he dies. Which leaves us with Garuda, the only DPS smn that can actually stay alive long enough to perform its role.

Frickin WoW has better smns, with better functionality, and visual representation than SE's SMN job in FFXlV

That being said, I LOVED the game, but the only job I was ever interested in, was the SMN, and it left me very, very disappointed. I'm not asking for a screen hogging, infinitely large, actual Primal sized summon here. But I mean, c'mon! Is it so difficult to at least make them Miqo'te sized, with some actual detail?!

As it currently stands, I am one less FFXlV customer. I just can't bring myself to waste $15 a month on something that constantly brings nothing but disappointment to me. But, I wish everyone else a happy gaming, and SE luck in future developments. Peace!

Titan requires some maintaining using E4E and Sustain. It helps to use Vitality accessories before summoning him but you can't zone or use Spur/Rouse or that'll reset his stats (if you swapped back to INT accessories). Ifrit is squishy yes but if you Place him in a segment around the boss where he won't get roflstomped by things then you're golden. Garuda is fine, she takes AoEs like a champ (like the T7 "donut" explosion which can oneshot a player stupid enough to stand in it for too long)

All in all this subject's a dead horse that's constantly being beaten. SE is already going to address Ifrit's unpopularity when they rebalance the Egis for the additions of Ramuh and Leviathan Egis.

I can understand the frustration with this since I was also very disappointed by summoner but they have stated that they will not change the appearance of the Egi because it conflicts with the lore. They will however add new ones when the level cap is increased.

Additionally though I think that titan can offtank just fine, he shouldn't be comparable to pld/war in my opinion. As far as ifrit and garuda go I think they're doing ok as well once you get used to managing your pets properly. My biggest problem with summoner is how underwhelming Enkindle is for its 5 minute cooldown. Aside from that Smn can pull top dps in a lot of fights if they are good so I don't necessarily want to see them get buffed either.

It doesnt matter if the job is well balanced and overall interesting. The only thing that matter is the size of the wind-up garuda's boobs that comes with it.

I lol'd. Gimme your money before you quit, btw

I liked the spirit master class in Aion. Much better spirits visually with better functionality. The spirits for smn don't look nearly as intimidating lol.

I wish they'd add Summons for the new primals. It'd definitely be neat to see more than Ifrit/Titan/Garuda.

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Originally Posted by Jasiwel

I wish they'd add Summons for the new primals. It'd definitely be neat to see more than Ifrit/Titan/Garuda.

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They will with the level cap raise

Maybe you just need to become a better Summoner? No arguments about their poor aesthetics, but I have found uses for all three, including using the much hated Ifrit in Second Coil. And if your Titan and Ifrit keep dying it's because you and your healers aren't doing a good enough job of keeping them alive.

I really hope SE would reconsider how egis look >w< they are totally out of FF style.

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Originally Posted by Kona4me

I really hope SE would reconsider how egis look >w< they are totally out of FF style.

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They're supposed to be a fragment of the Primal's power. It also appears that the primals themselves can access this very power (Titan and Ramuh summon Egis themselves)

Also I swear Shiro is adorable in that scene

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Originally Posted by Youmadesca

It doesnt matter if the job is well balanced and overall interesting. The only thing that matter is the size of the wind-up garuda's boobs that comes with it.

I lol'd. Gimme your money before you quit, btw

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Holy strawman

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Originally Posted by NintenPyjak64

They're supposed to be a fragment of the Primal's power. It also appears that the primals themselves can access this very power (Titan and Ramuh summon Egis themselves)

Also I swear Shiro is adorable in that scene

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Shiro is so adorable <3 >w<

I don't mind if they make Titan-Egi more like how Titan summoned them in Extreme mode, just not how we summon them right now ;w; they r ugly! fragment can be a little bigger, we don't need them to be so big :)

Re-sub re-sub re-sub! Titan-Egi is the best tank for King Mog Extreme!

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Originally Posted by Vasaan-Dragomir

But, what did I get? I got this..little...gardening tool thingie. Ifrit looks about as useful as a weed remover. Titan looks about as useful as a hoe. And Garuda looks like a nice bug repellent. Titan is supposed to be tanky, but a boss can kill him off rather quickly, as well as about 3 dungeon mobs. and ifrit's dps isn't even worthwhile with how quickly he dies. Which leaves us with Garuda, the only DPS smn that can actually stay alive long enough to perform its role.

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Well you are entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't make you right.

Titan can tank whole dungeons if you use him right, with cooperation from your healer. The only set back is that PS3/4 players don't seem to be able to target Summoner pets, where as PC players can by clicking on them. That aside, I've used my Titan numerous times to tank level 50 dungeon mobs and bosses. I'm not saying it's as good as having a Pld or Warrior, but it is a viable option if for whatever reason your tank bails. You'll need decent gear though, or like others have suggested, summon him with +vit gear on.

Heck I even had a real fun time once in dungeon with another Summoner and a healer (can't remember which job they were) after our tank bailed at the start of Lost City, we managed to kill the first boss before another tank finally que'd in. That was probably the most fun I've had in a dungeon in a while.

I will admit that once you get the Garuda minion, Ifrit essentially becomes obsolete. But I believe they are buffing Ifrit in 2.3, haven't really compared how it will stack up with Garuda yet, but it is what it is. Right now the only time I generally use Ifrit is if I get CM on my main scenario duty roulette and I get beat to the cannons have to melee, because I can use Ifrit to stun the Colossus effectively.

As for their appearance, I personally like them. It works for this game and I find them pretty artistic creations of the primals they represent.

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Originally Posted by NintenPyjak64

They're supposed to be a fragment of the Primal's power.

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Did you know? in FFXI the Avatars we summoned were also only a fragment of the Prime's power?

Titan-Egi is a decent tank, it'd be nice if he had a way to quickly move up the aggro table but other than that I think he's pretty much fine. No one should want him to be as good as an actual PLD/WAR though.

As for the appearance of the summons, it'd be nice if they were a little bigger (or grew bigger when using Spur.) But other than that I actually quite like the stylized appearance.

My wish is that they would change titans model to that of the adds in extreme titan, they actually look like titan, unlike the giant crusty popcorn we currently have, as for useless though, none of them are, Garuda is always useful due to contagion , ifrit can be preferable in some fights, and as others have said, titan can tank dungeons if you play it right, I've run a few where tank left due to not liking the one that popped, and 3 manned it with titan .

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Did you know? in FFXI the Avatars we summoned were also only a fragment of the Prime's power?

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Funfact: Vana'diel isn't Hydaelyn. Nor is it Ivalice, or Terra, Gaia, or w/e else the planets are called in the series

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Originally Posted by Kona4me

Shiro is so adorable <3 >w<

I don't mind if they make Titan-Egi more like how Titan summoned them in Extreme mode, just not how we summon them right now ;w; they r ugly! fragment can be a little bigger, we don't need them to be so big :)

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They're actually exactly the same just Titan's Egis don't glow yellow like ours

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Originally Posted by NintenPyjak64

Funfact: Vana'diel isn't Hydaelyn. Nor is it Ivalice, or Terra, Gaia, or w/e else the planets are called in the series

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Fun fact: Magitek reapers in Hydaelyn are the exact make and model from the ones found in FFVI's universe, specially one a certain Tina (Terra) Used. Another Fun Fact: You stated "fragment of power", there's no true difference between 1 fragment of power and another another - a fragment is a fragment, same concept - You're not wielding the full power of the summon.

Another fun fact: The Crystal Tower originated in FFIII's world, which had no Allagans. Another Fun Fact: A couple of Garlean soldiers admit they came from Dalmasca.

I get what you were trying to say but the point is, having a fragment of power isn't truthfully an excuse for the design we got when their previous FF MMO shows they could have done much more if they truly wanted to using the same concept. :p

I'm happy with smn as it is, mini-abstract summons and all.

FFXI Summoner also looked like the most boring class ever.

I went and watched some videos on youtube. The player just sits in a corner/runs away as the pet does EVERYTHING. There are literally 20 second intervals of the player pressing no buttons, and is still winning. Why do people want this back? So you can summon a pet and then go make a sandwich as the game plays itself?

That being said, the designs of the current egis are not the greatest. However, the Ramuh egi does look closer to what the OP wants, just a human sized version of the full primal. (Assuming they use the models from The Striking Tree fight.)

Those digimon egis look terrible..............
I just wish they would give us the option................the option to choose egi or a different more real version of the primal. Call it "glamour your egi" or something...but they all look like toys right now.

I wouldn't mind seeing new egi models but they'd have to tie it in with the lore so it would probably be a later level trait with the description of "mastery of summoning allows you to channel more of a primals essence without being tainted by it" or something to that regard.

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Originally Posted by Jamez82

I wouldn't mind seeing new egi models but they'd have to tie it in with the lore so it would probably be a later level trait with the description of "mastery of summoning allows you to channel more of a primals essence without being tainted by it" or something to that regard.

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That's always been my thought on it, that when a cap increase comes, it might deal with us learning more on how to control the egi, thus transforming them to show they have been enhanced, sure hope anyway

Without going as far as to summon the actual primal, think it could have been better if the egi were more impressive than the first ladybug you meet around the cities.
It seriously looks like something went wrong during the summon, I'm so sad each time I see Ifrit egi's fully exposed spine lacking half of his body or garuda egi's broken back that I want to put them out of their misery.

Also laughed during the smn quest when you got told that the egi is the picture of the primal that remain in your mind, made me feel like:
http://x2.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comme...34a6711643.gif

Well toning down the sacrasm, I think it could have been best to make them look at least like when Titan summon his egi, bit bigger with colors more close to the primal than a plain glowing texture.
Really hope one day SE will going back on what they said and try to put a bit more work on the Egi.

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Originally Posted by Gamma621

FFXI Summoner also looked like the most boring class ever.

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XI is turn based, XIV is not - Logically anything people "would want back" wouldn't be in the same design, but not so wildly different that they'll be something extremely foreign in design as well.

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Originally Posted by NintenPyjak64

Funfact: Vana'diel isn't Hydaelyn. Nor is it Ivalice, or Terra, Gaia, or w/e else the planets are called in the series



They're actually exactly the same just Titan's Egis don't glow yellow like ours

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Are you sure? titan's egis is not bigger than our egis? :)
http://finalfantasyxiv.pl/generated/...41_enlarge.jpg

anyways i'd like for my egis to have the same look of the primal but just smaller than it and everything will be cool <3 . also, i completely agree with Tupsi on this fragment thing.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

XI is turn based, XIV is not - Logically anything people "would want back" wouldn't be in the same design, but not so wildly different that they'll be something extremely foreign in design as well.

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Actually, XI is a RTB system and so is XIV.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

XI is turn based

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XI is not turn based.

Whatever version of crab you may be fighting at the moment does not stop attacking until your party has input their commands and then you all exchange blows.

Slow doesn't make it turn based, it just makes it slow >_>

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

I used SE's words. Due to the slower nature of the game it's been described as turn based, people think too literally.

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Bravely Default, FFTA2, FF1 are what I would consider examples of a game that is turn based. They can say FFXI is turn based but I've never looked at it that way.

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Originally Posted by ParanoidHobo

XI is not turn based.

Whatever version of crab you may be fighting at the moment does not stop attacking until your party has input their commands and then you all exchange blows.

Slow doesn't make it turn based, it just makes it slow >_>

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I used SE's words. Due to the slower nature of the game it's been described as turn based, people think too literally. Just like they described FFXIV as more of an action battle system but not action game (Yoshida's reasoning for jump not being an actual battle tactic in general gameplay.)

Since spamming skills (or "your rotation" as people call it) would make this an action game by definition.

when I fought Ifrit at level 20 and I seen his moves, radiant plumes, Hellfire, flamethrower and eruptions.I thought man I can't wait to summon him to do those moves. Since they are really strong moves I thought they would have a long cool downs especially Hellfire. I was a little disappointed when I first summoned him as those moves where not available. I could of lived without the moveset but the way he looked completely killed it. I didn't care for the size but the model details. Carbuncle looks like carbuncle. Not enough people are complaining about it.

So, if I read the OP right, he's quitting because of a single class? Oh well, bon voyage I guess.

I'll freely admit that Summoner's aren't nearly as reliant on their summons as they were previously, but isn't that arguably a good thing? In FFXI, you were basically a backup healer using whatever skills your measly WHM job could provide in the gap between blood pacts. It wasn't particularly fun, though I admit the pets at least had some crazy damage at times.

Personally, I think the fault with summoner is the same as the fault with every spell ever. Elements are worthless. What is the point in so-called element aspect damage when it literally makes no difference to the target? Fireballs on Ifrit, Aero on Garuda, Stone on Titan and so forth... it makes no difference at all. So, when summoner comes into the game, they have no way of making them different from each other, which is why they've been shoe-horned into tank/range/melee roles.

Their biggest faux pas was the removal of elemental weaknesses, strengths and the various combat intricacies that such a system provides. Summoner is the result of one big bad decision, and is just doing the best it can in the world that was created for it.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

I used SE's words. Due to the slower nature of the game it's been described as turn based, people think too literally. Just like they described FFXIV as more of an action battle system but not action game (Yoshida's reasoning for jump not being an actual battle tactic in general gameplay.)

Since spamming skills (or "your rotation" as people call it) would make this an action game by definition.

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Citation needed. I've never seen this game as being advertised as turn-based.

It's not a matter of thinking too literally. FFXI had nothing to do with turn-based, it was slow due the nature of the combat which was reliant on weapon delay for nearly all action. RTB is a different system than turn-based and this is the system XI was built upon.

Turn-based= FFX
RTB= FFXI

I'll say it again. SMN was rushed in right before launch. They made an affliction warlock (notice how Yoshi P played WoW, so he knows the class and that particular spec).

People were expecting to actually summon summons to do certain abilities instead of a pet class which SMN is now. I doubt that they'll change it. We'll get the story how the egi's fit the lore bla bla bla.

I don't play SMN, I just like to see them around. Not in their current form though, so I feel with you all!

Edit: Yoshi played WoW

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Originally Posted by abzoluut

I'll say it again. SMN was rushed in right before launch. They made an affliction warlock (notice how Yoshi P worked on WoW, so he knows the class and that particular spec).

People were expection to actually summon summons to do certain abilities instead of a pet class which SMN is now. I doubt that they'll change it. We'll get the story how the egi's fit the lore bla bla bla.

I don't play SMN, I just like to see them around. Not in their current form though, so I feel with you all!

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Thank you! I really feel like they took the easy way out. Someone above mentioned how he expected the egis to at least do some of the primal moves (with lower damage of course). Instead we have egis which do......some underwhelming slashing attacks. Would love to see Garuda egi summon feather grenades...or summon 2 Garudas like in her fight.

It's the entire thing.....if we got toy-like egis why didn't we get impressive attacks?
I could deal with unimpressive attacks if they looked better.

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Originally Posted by abzoluut

I'll say it again. SMN was rushed in right before launch. They made an affliction warlock (notice how Yoshi P worked on WoW, so he knows the class and that particular spec).

People were expection to actually summon summons to do certain abilities instead of a pet class which SMN is now. I doubt that they'll change it. We'll get the story how the egi's fit the lore bla bla bla.

I don't play SMN, I just like to see them around. Not in their current form though, so I feel with you all!

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Again, citation needed. Yoshida mentioned he drew inspirations from WoW, having played it, not that he worked on it.

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Originally Posted by Ghastly

Thank you! I really feel like they took the easy way out. Someone above mentioned how he expected the egis to at least do some of the primal moves (with lower damage of course). Instead we have egis which do......some underwhelming slashing attacks. Would love to see Garuda egi summon feather grenades...or summon 2 Garudas like in her fight.

It's the entire thing.....if we got toy-like egis why didn't we get impressive attacks?
I could deal with unimpressive attacks if they looked better.

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The Egis actually use some of the attack at lower damage (Garuda with Aerial Blast, Ifrit with Crimson Cyclone/Inferno , Titan with Mountain Buster/ Earthen Fury).

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Originally Posted by abzoluut

I'll say it again. SMN was rushed in right before launch. They made an affliction warlock (notice how Yoshi P worked on WoW, so he knows the class and that particular spec).

People were expection to actually summon summons to do certain abilities instead of a pet class which SMN is now. I doubt that they'll change it. We'll get the story how the egi's fit the lore bla bla bla.

I don't play SMN, I just like to see them around. Not in their current form though, so I feel with you all!

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Yeah, a guy who doesn't speak English worked on WoW.

And people are going to continue to completely ignore the fact that you are NOT summoning a Primal. You are not even summoning a miniature Primal. You are siphoning off a teeny-tiny, infinitely miniscule portion of that primal's aetheric essence, and giving it form based upon your PC's subconscious impressions of it.

the Summoner from the quest to become a summoner had better Egis then us, but then again he was somewhat evil and possibly compensating for something. regardless I love the SMN class, it could use some improvements, especially Ifrit-egi, but Garuda is great for how it is currently, and titan-egi has let me pull off some stupid crap that I doubt I could have done as any other dps class.