Geography of ARR vs. 1.0

Simple enough question: I was just wondering if the geography of the land was virtually identical in ARR to 1.0 or is it different/shifted to reflect the changes of "The Calamity" and if so, what has changed. Just curious really. Thanks!

In a nutshell, it's pretty much completely different. In fact, the whole technical reason for "bringing Dalamud down" (to paraphrase Yoshi's own words), was to provide a narrative reason for redesigning the maps, as the original maps and geography of Eorzea was one of the major negative points about 1.0 that players mentioned. Of course, the end result is a number of 1.0 players are now wondering whether they made a mistake, now thinking that 1.0 zones might have been better, but that's life I guess - they made this monster, now they can't complain that it's stomped on a city. ;)

Having said that, there have been some odd geographical changes that simply can't be explained by Dalamud's fall - for instance, in the Central Shroud, the location of Lifemend Stump is in a completely different place to where it was in 1.0 (in 1.0 it was actually north-west of Gridania, along the Furline to what was Camp Emerald Moss (which doesn't exist in ARR). Now it's in a little spot to the east of Gridania, with no explanation as to the change, other than simply retconning it.

Gridania itself doesn't escape from this, specifically the changed location of Stillglade Fane, which in 1.0 used to be in the top left north-west corner of the city (and accessed by a long and winding tunnel), where as now in ARR it's been plonked pretty much where the old aethertye used to be in 1.0. So yeah, a lot of things have definitely been changed, some with no logic as to how it even happened.

Okay here's what I know so far:

• Coerthas went from a meadow to a frozen wasteland, basically this is the "winter" coming to Westeros (Note that I haven't seen Game of Thrones, so Im not sure if it already came)
• Comparing maps, ARR has more organic forms to the mass of squares seen in 1.0 maps, likewise the geography is also changed because the 1.0 zoned were getting repetitive
• Locations named for colors no longer have their eponymous color (The Red Labyrinth and the Black Shroud) though granted, I don't think the 1.0 shroud was that black to begin with and the Red Labyrinth was apparently glitched, so I'd take the names with a grain of salt even if they weren't calamitied.
• Revanant's Toll got hit with a lot of the Calamity and the camp had to relocate, it is now in the process of developing to a full-fledged city with each patch (yes, I know that was hyperbolic)

Almost everything.
The zones in 1.0 were bigger, but they were empty for the most part (not even monsters in some places) and their layout was just a number of copy-pasted pieces.

Just compare this map section from 1.0, a part of Thanalan,
http://ff14craft.com/images/East%20Uldah.jpg


With this map of Thanalan
http://www.ffxivinfo.com/images/maps...l-thanalan.jpg

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

they made this monster, now they can't complain that it's stomped on a city. ;)

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I never ask for it. In fact, I wanna stay at the old Eorzea. I was really heartbroken when SE finally shut down server for good in Dec 31, 2012. ; ;

I really miss old Coerthas, and especially... the old Shroud. ><

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Originally Posted by Kyana

Almost everything.
The zones in 1.0 were bigger, but they were empty for the most part (not even monsters in some places) and their layout was just a number of copy-pasted pieces.

Just compare this map section from 1.0, a part of Thanalan,
http://ff14craft.com/images/East%20Uldah.jpg


With this map of Thanalan
http://www.ffxivinfo.com/images/maps...l-thanalan.jpg

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wrong comparison. The 1.0 picture above are eastern Thanalan, while the ARR version you put below are central Thanalan. lol

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Originally Posted by Kyana

Almost everything.
The zones in 1.0 were bigger, but they were empty for the most part (not even monsters in some places) and their layout was just a number of copy-pasted pieces...

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See? I knew 1.0 mas were shaped like a mess of squares! Weirdly-edged squares, but still squares.

Thanalan was actually kind of pretty in a realistic sort of way. Endless swathes of desert that could look quite stunning to my taste. The repetitive nature of the maps was less egregious there as far as I was concerned, if only because it is consistent with how such an area actually looks. It was also much more open than the Shroud (the only other area I had much 1.0 experience with), which might have been named the Black Corridor.

If you look around you can easily find old 1.0 maps, though it might be confusing to compare them to the 2.0 versions. The majority of 1.0 Coerthas just flat out does not exist in 2.0. Half of Mor Dhona is gone, and Thanalan, The black Shroud, and La Noscea were 3 massive zones, respective cities included (though the cities had separate maps for accessibility).

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Originally Posted by BobbinT

I never ask for it. In fact, I wanna stay at the old Eorzea. I was really heartbroken when SE finally shut down server for good in Dec 31, 2012. ; ;

I really miss old Coerthas, and especially... the old Shroud. ><

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As much as I miss the landscape the old Coerthas offered, who in his right mind could miss these tunnels-in-forest shrouds?!

That said, most maps were really changed, while keeping the same overall design. Take Coerthas or even that Eastern Thanalan map from 1.0 poster before, they're very similar. A few spots changed, but everything is roughly where it should be.

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Originally Posted by Alenore

As much as I miss the landscape the old Coerthas offered, who in his right mind could miss these tunnels-in-forest shrouds?!

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Ever been in real forest sonny? And not the one in parks. lol

Cause I did, and got lost there too. Which is why the old Shroud really reminds me of that experience. XD

I have been in plenty of natural forests and none of them were canyon corridors with all the trees above you. It was black canyon more than it was a forest. You may get lost in a real forest snd black shroud but black shroud was horribly designed in 1.0. I really like ARR maps they font get boring to me and i dont have to check my map every 30 seconds because you pass the "same" tree 10 times in that time making you want to ensure you are still headed east even tough your still following the compass east

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Originally Posted by BobbinT

Ever been in real forest sonny? And not the one in parks. lol

Cause I did, and got lost there too. Which is why the old Shroud really reminds me of that experience. XD

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A real forest isn't made of paths carved in the ground with wall of trees around you. They're wild and unpredictable. Not vegetation corridors.

I never played 1.0, but it sounds like, from how you're describing it, that the old Shroud was designed more like a dense jungle. If you ever go in a dense jungle, yes, it can be like a wall of vegetation that form into corridors from either animal trails or man-mad trails....though that shouldn't be how a temperate forest should be designed....

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Originally Posted by Kicha

I never played 1.0, but it sounds like, from how you're describing it, that the old Shroud was designed more like a dense jungle. If you ever go in a dense jungle, yes, it can be like a wall of vegetation that form into corridors from either animal trails or man-mad trails....though that shouldn't be how a temperate forest should be designed....

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It was a bit like this, except that the 'trails' were wide and very well cleared, however, they led to all sorts of useless places. It might have made more sense if there were direct routes from A to B, but it was just endless corridors like a hedge maze. The scenery was pretty though, I'll give it that. ARR's Black Shroud might have gone too far in the other direction in that, while it's clearly wooded, it's not nearly as densely wooded as the tree line just outside my apartment complex.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Of course, the end result is a number of 1.0 players are now wondering whether they made a mistake, now thinking that 1.0 zones might have been better, but that's life I guess - they made this monster, now they can't complain that it's stomped on a city. ;)

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Nobody actually "misses" the old maps. Back in 1.0 nearly 100% of the population agreed that the maps were boring hallways of copy/pasted terrain filled with random monsters placed there for no other purpose than to grind. There were a few areas like the red labyrinth who actually had some sort of "unique" feature such as have red rocks that that's where it ended. Some people here on the forums still claim they miss 1.0 but I assure you that, when those people aren't trolling, it is only nostalgia fueling their words and that none of them would really rather play 1.0 than what we have right now even if they wouldn't admit it.

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Originally Posted by BobbinT

wrong comparison. The 1.0 picture above are eastern Thanalan, while the ARR version you put below are central Thanalan. lol

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I think I missed the point where I said that these maps show the same zone/area. Help me find it please.
No matter which zone you look at, the difference will be the same, so keep your lols for yourself please.

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Originally Posted by Kicha

I never played 1.0, but it sounds like, from how you're describing it, that the old Shroud was designed more like a dense jungle. If you ever go in a dense jungle, yes, it can be like a wall of vegetation that form into corridors from either animal trails or man-mad trails....though that shouldn't be how a temperate forest should be designed....

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No, 1.0 shroud wasn't like a dense jungle. There was quite literally a carved path you had to walk in with small cliffs to your left and right, and the trees were on top of those.

There were some open areas that had a few trees though.


But after walking past the exact same creek 50 times in 50 different places, it got very old

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Originally Posted by Nutz

ARR's Black Shroud might have gone too far in the other direction in that, while it's clearly wooded, it's not nearly as densely wooded as the tree line just outside my apartment complex.

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Huge chunks of Dalamud had presumably crashed into the forest during the Calamity. And Bahamut likely added to the destruction when he briefly ran amok. Five years of slow recovery would hardly be enough to replace the entire groves of the thousand-year-old trees destroyed during the disaster.

At least, that's why I think the 'Black' Shroud looks the way it does now.

As for what I don't miss about the 1.0 maps: I'm certainly more than glad to see the complete end to aetheryte camps. They were pathetic, demonstrating an absolute lack of commitment to design plausible towns or settlements, pockets of civilisation amid the wilderness. And I remember how Aleport 1.0 was no more than a collection of a few grey buildings with hardly anyone around, a far cry from how it looks today.

http://i.imgur.com/ePkfETL.jpg

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Originally Posted by Sakasa

One thing that I do wonder about is when Toll goes full city will they zone it and add more land to Mor Dhona and connectors to both sides with out going through Toll to adjust the size?

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Actually, I kind of feel sorry for future players who will never get to experience how Revenant's Toll literally grew before our eyes.

Unless there are plans to introduce the settlement to new players in phases, like how players won't see the Domans until they've completed the main story quests from patch 2.2? Another example perhaps be the Waking Sands, which would look different, depending on how far into the main story quest the player has gone.

Is this already the case for Revenant's Toll?

Most people referred to the shroud as hamster/gerble tubes as the map belayed the simple method of placement, but the actual forest was hard to figure out where you weren't (Where you are on a path was easy to figure out but how far you are from anything else was lost) from visuals alone as there were few landmarks mostly the mob levels and the bridges were it, but because alot of 1.0 was done with out choco or the ability to sprint (go go DOL movement buff) the shroud had many useless twist and turns that made it more maze like then forest region.

Well we have found pieces of the some maps like the battle of big bridge is the long bridge zone loading point for corethas but what we lost for in size we gained in character, which matters alot in zones you can't easily teleport around in.

One thing that I do wonder about is when Toll goes full city will they zone it and add more land to Mor Dhona and connectors to both sides with out going through Toll to adjust the size?

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Originally Posted by Kyana

I think I missed the point where I said that these maps show the same zone/area. Help me find it please.
No matter which zone you look at, the difference will be the same, so keep your lols for yourself please.

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That's just silly, though. When you draw a comparison to show changes to a place, you should be comparing the new version with the old. I could share Southern Thanalan and compare it with modern Central Thanalan, and they'd look really different, even though Legacy Southern Thanalan was different to how the other maps in Thanalan were.

As for the pictures you showed, if you compare the old Central Thanalan with the new one, there's still some resemblance. Not as much as Central Highlands in Coerthas, but you can see they used the original as a base to work with. Similarly, Eastern Thanalan may look really different, but if you split it in half, it's a little more like ARR's Eastern Thanalan. The lower half? That's actually now part of ARR's Southern Thanalan.

The geography is definitely different, with crevices, canyons, and mountains that didn't exist before or no longer exist, but there are still clear traces of them usually being the same place, minus the odd location change. It's also worth noting that the maps only tell half of the story. I think the easiest example would be Old Gridania. The lower area near Greatloam Growery was there in the original, but inaccessible (and thus not on the map). Similarly, the entrance to the cave that lead to Stillglade Fane and the Amphitheatre are sealed off by a cave in, the paths still visible, but is what has lead to their movement.

So no, the difference will not be the same.

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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

Actually, I kind of feel sorry for future players who will never get to experience how Revenant's Toll literally grew before our eyes.

Unless there are plans to introduce the settlement to new players in phases, like how players won't see the Domans until they've completed the main story quests from patch 2.2? Another example perhaps be the Waking Sands, which would look different, depending on how far into the main story quest the player has gone.

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I only recently got to the point where the Domans relocated to Mor Dhona, and I can confirm that they were not there until after I had completed the scenario for it which suggests that players may be introduced in stages.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Gridania itself doesn't escape from this, specifically the changed location of Stillglade Fane, which in 1.0 used to be in the top left north-west corner of the city (and accessed by a long and winding tunnel), where as now in ARR it's been plonked pretty much where the old aethertye used to be in 1.0. So yeah, a lot of things have definitely been changed, some with no logic as to how it even happened.

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Actually, if you look carefully where the old fane used to be, you can see that the entrance is blocked by boulders.
It didn't magically moved to the old Aetheryte plaza, they just dug another cave to make the new fane where the now destroyed aetherite used to be :)

But aside from that one... Yeah a lot of landmark magically moved like the gelmorra ruins

For people who want a good look at what the old Shroud was like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti2AIhEoH9Y

To be frank, it can charitably be called a forest. You actually see rather few trees unless you look up. And you can see that virtually all of the navigation was done by these tiny, winding corridors that were difficult to differentiate from one another. And this is being done on choco-back; imagine doing this without a 'bo or without sprint, which didn't exist.

To be frank, desite the sometimes-thin treeline, the ARR Shroud feels more like a forest than the 1.0 version did. 1.0 Shroud was a series of ravines with some bushes.

Oh, also, it's worth pointing out that, yes, the major areas were one "zone"... but all of them, not just the Shroud, used a lot of narrow corridors between major areas to mask the loading. General consensus is that it was an attempt to make seamless zones work with the PS3's piddly memory budget... and it still didn't work, as the 1.0 PS3 version was reportedly a huge mess.

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Originally Posted by StarDrake

and it still didn't work, as the 1.0 PS3 version was reportedly a huge mess.

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It was such a mess that it actually never happened.