Improved Dungeon Looting

Disclaimer: Im bad at spelling and grammar, Im infuriated right now and i cant find any "Suggestions" sections on here.

Point
If your X levels above equipment in a dungeon you should not be allowed to need it. That option should not be allowed to you even if its your class. If your level 50 and you "NEED" level 20 crap then your doing something wrong. I can understanding Spirit Binding and stuff but its not fair to take an item from a player who is actually going to use it.

Example
Lancer can Need any disciple of war stuff but NOT any lancer equitable tank gear such as the elmo's. If you have a level 50 tank and a level 20 lancer trying to get a level 20 elmo that tank should NOT be able to need it.

Notes
I have read this thread on lancers
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...er+Greed+Armor
that basically said that lancers lost the right to need tanky gear because a select group was derp.

As was said in that thread, jjust because it says LNC doesnt mean its meant for LNC

Yes i have read the thread. The point is to give the players an option. The reason lancers can no longer need for such gear is because it was being abused, also according to that thread. The point of this thread is to ballance it out so level 50's dont just run low level dungeons and need all the gear and prevent any one else from getting it.

Well, going by your new system (which is the Beta Phase 1-3 system), time for me to roll need on all the accessories as my tank.

This again? You are in dungeon gear for such a short amount of time. Why is your day or two wearing an item (or hey, maybe a week), more important than my glamour, or seals, or gil?

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Originally Posted by ForteXX

Well, going by your new system (which is the Beta Phase 1-3 system), time for me to roll need on all the accessories as my tank.

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Please take the time to actually read what i had posted, Thank you in advanced.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

This again? You are in dungeon gear for such a short amount of time. Why is your day or two wearing an item (or hey, maybe a week), more important than my glamour, or seals, or gil?

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Im the rare type of player that runs all classes through the same dungeon for the level range (till level sync). Currently level 38-41.

dude wth is going on with your eyes?

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Originally Posted by Oxidine

Example
Lancer can Need any disciple of war stuff but NOT any lancer equitable tank gear such as the elmo's. If you have a level 50 tank and a level 20 lancer trying to get a level 20 elmo that tank should NOT be able to need it.

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From your first post. What youre complaining doesnt fit with what you said is exactly what you put in this example I quoted. Accessories are all classes, so going by what you said if my level is correct I can roll need on all accessories as a tank, even if its casting/healing/ranged.

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Originally Posted by Oxidine

Im the rare type of player that runs all classes through the same dungeon for the level range (till level sync). Currently level 38-41.

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OK, you get a slightly longer use out of them, but you can also find HQ crafted items that are pretty comparable to dungeon drops. It really boils down to, why do you feel your use of an item is more important than that of someone else's?

I sometimes lot on things according to another class I'm leveling that will need it soon.

I personally don't Need gear below my current gear level for that slot but I sure do Greed it.

But some people may Need GC points and gear is sure a fast way to get it.

I personally don't even attempt to lot on gear unless I know I'm going to use it. If it's a downgrade on my current job, but an upgrade on a job I'm leveling, I'll lot Need anyways.

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Originally Posted by Oxidine

If your level 50 and you "NEED" level 20 crap then your doing something wrong. I can understanding Spirit Binding and stuff but its not fair to take an item from a player who is actually going to use it.

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You admit that the level 50 player may have a use for the item (Spirit bonding) and then immediately say its unfair for them to take it because they don't have a use for it? Spirit bonding, glamors, collections, GC seals, and profit are all valid reasons to loot on a piece of gear and are no less important than using the gear for combat.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

why do you feel your use of an item is more important than that of someone else?

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I can't agree with Skivvy enough.

If i'm doing content to get a piece for vanity i should be able to need it, the reasons doesn't matter, if you're doing content for gear and you're on the right job you should be able to need, even expert delivery is a good reason to need, if you need the item just say it in pty chat, and if the "needer" is kind enough he/she will let you have it.

If you change the rules you'll only get ppl wearing low lvl gear to be able to need, that's an unnecessary evil.

EIther people will come undergeard on porpose.

Or highlevels simply will quit doing low level dungeons unless helping friends and once a day roulette. How will you like that if a dungeon take ridiculous amount of because no high level people run Sastasha with you.

This self entitlement of some people is mind boggling

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Originally Posted by Oxidine

If your X levels above equipment in a dungeon you should not be allowed to need it.

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You're wrong. Some equipment is good for glamour. See the Coliseum set, as example.

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Originally Posted by Oxidine

...If your level 50 and you "NEED" level 20 crap then your doing something wrong.

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You're wrong again. That is the only method to get gear to spiritbond and make materia out of them. Then, you also can sell that to your GC for seals. When I need seals, I also have this method.

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Originally Posted by Oxidine

I can understanding Spirit Binding and stuff but its not fair to take an item from a player who is actually going to use it.

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The Fairness is given by the loot roll, everyone have the chance to get the item, and the reasons of someone cannot overceed the reasons of other players. We all are fair and square, and roll our dice.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

You're wrong. Some equipment is good for glamour. See the Coliseum set, as example.

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Coliseum doesn't look good on anyone other than Mi'qotes...

No one else really looks fitting with it on, more like grown men and women trying to wear toddler clothes.

Least in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Heavy01Mk2

dude wth is going on with your eyes?

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My eyes are fine, may I ask what you think is wrong with them? From what I have seen people are not actually reading what I have posted and they are just trolling this topic.

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Originally Posted by ForteXX

From your first post. What youre complaining doesnt fit with what you said is exactly what you put in this example I quoted. Accessories are all classes, so going by what you said if my level is correct I can roll need on all accessories as a tank, even if its casting/healing/ranged.

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What I have said lines up perfectly; however I believe you think Im wanting to rework the entire system. No, stop amusing things. I simply said i would like to prevent higher levels from rolling "NEED" on equipment to low for them. Never said anything for accessories. No other changes where mentioned either.

Usually I roll greed on everything, unless I know it can be useful now or later.

So I am not allowed to roll need on my 50ish class for an item I will use on another lower class? Like rolling on that 38 robe for my 16 mage? Or for my retainer? Or for fashion? Or just because I want seals?


And why? Your need is bigger than mine? More like your greed is bigger, don't you think?



Everyone pays the same to play, everyone uses the same effort to do content (even if it's a walk in the park for higher geared players it is still the same time invested) thus everyone should have equal looting rights.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

You're wrong. Some equipment is good for glamour. See the Coliseum set, as example.



You're wrong again. That is the only method to get gear to spiritbond and make materia out of them. Then, you also can sell that to your GC for seals. When I need seals, I also have this method.



The Fairness is given by the loot roll, everyone have the chance to get the item, and the reasons of someone cannot overceed the reasons of other players. We all are fair and square, and roll our dice.

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This whole comment is based on selfishness.
You say im wrong however this is my idea, just because you dont agree dosnt make me wrong. You also dont "NEED" to glamour stuff, you dont "NEED" to make materia, and you dont "NEED" to sell it. When you "NEED" and item from a level 15 dungeon when your level 50 your just being a dick. (UNLESS no one actually NEEDS it)
Also your hypocritical, there is no "fairness" in rolling need on anything. Roll greed and play fair.

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Originally Posted by Oxidine

This whole comment is based on selfishness.
You say im wrong when im actually correct. You dont "NEED" to glamour stuff, you dont "NEED" to make materia, and you dont "NEED" to sell it. When you "NEED" and item from a level 15 dungeon when your level 50 your just being a dick.

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You don't get your gear because others are selfish? How is that comment not selfish itself?

You don't NEED equipement for stats when you could buy/craft HQ melded item, so the same goes for you... eveyone can NEED if they can or noone should be able to.

Some people do care more about vanity than stats on piece of equipement (i do ^^)
That's why some people NEED stuff even if it's way under there level (other need seals for crafting i70 item).

I stopped counting how many time i've done Dzemael to get a Coliseum shawl.... Why should i just greed it where i've put a lot of effort just to see it drop once !

It's again the case of "both sides are right and neither side is going to change their opinion" .... Especially in DF with people from other servers who have no impact on your life whatsoever once the dungeon is done. If I run a dungeon X amount of times, for the sole purpose of obtaining an item for glamour, chances are 99% of the time there is going to be someone who "needs it more" for the class they're leveling, or will level. This whole thing just smells of anger over having bad luck with rolls. I may feel you're selfish for depriving me of an item I've been trying to get for weeks. So, to end on a similar note as I started; Both sides are equally "selfish"....

Oh, and also the upcoming desynthesis could potentially make this gear more valuable for everyone. From what I've read, it sounds like rare materials will be found by doing this, and so that could be another valid reason to be able to "need" on an item (assuming most of the items will be fair game for desynthesis).

I will quote myself again:
"the reasons of someone cannot overceed the reasons of other players. We all are fair and square, and roll our dice."

All people fight in the duty, and all people have its rights over the loot that comes out. SE already have put in the rule that all job for whose the item is made for, have precedence ("need"), and who already have the unique item, cannot roll for it, this is enough.

Anyone who wants a different loot handling, just have to play with his friends and follow the rules you make for. On PUGs, you are one out of four, no less, no more.

Sorry seals are the only perk of running low level dungeons, if you tell me i can't take something for my job then there is even less of an incentive to run low level content.

I've seen this attitude from players in the past. Players that consider "levelling up" to be the only true need. If you aren't using it for its stats or to gain levels then you are not entitled to it.

In XIV 1.0 I was farming a raptor camp for leathers when a levelling group told me I had to leave so they could get EXP. They linked me to a thread on the Official forums that listed good levelling spots and told me I would be reported to the GM's if I didnt leave so they could EXP. (I didn't leave, first come first serve)

With regards to dungeon drops. Everyone who is putting in the TIME and EFFORT to clear the dungeon is fully entitled to roll on anything. If a high level player is taking part in your dungeon for whatever reason or purpose, s/he is investing his/her time and should be entitled to the same OPPORTUNITY as anyone else.

If you're able to Need on something, you should be able to do so. Not doing it because another player tells you that it would be a great upgrade for them is something nice that you do, but not a requirement. Higher level players don't go into DF queues to help total strangers gear up. Dungeons are a group effort, and anyone able to roll need has every right to do so. Even if it's not an upgrade, they may want it for Glamours and could have been farming the dungeon for a long time in order to get it. No one gets to decide which "need" is more important than the rest.

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Originally Posted by Aura_Shurifon

I stopped counting how many time i've done Dzemael to get a Coliseum shawl.... Why should i just greed it where i've put a lot of effort just to see it drop once !

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You know you can actually buy the Coliseum pieces on the market board! For some reason they are not Untradeable like most dungeon gear.

On topic, if the game lights up the Need button for you, then you get to roll Need on the piece. No one else gets to judge whether your reason for wanting the item is valid and you don't get to judge whether their reason is valid. Their reason is none of your business and your reason is none of theirs. You just roll the dice and get a fair shot at it.

Part of the problem is filtering high level players into low level dungeons to begin with. It's not a design I necessarily agree with - but SE was concerned about lower level players not having enough folks to complete content even with cross-server filtering tools, so it's what we have.

I can understand where the OP is coming from. I've been leveling blm and I was filtered into a level-appropriate dungeon that actually had some upgrades I needed; however, I didn't win any of the lots against the level 50 raid-geared whm who was also rolling need on all the caster gear. I didn't make a fuss about it because he was just as entitled to roll on the loot as I was, but as a matter of courtesy when I'm the high level doing my daily tome farm, I don't roll on need against a level 20 blm that might need the equipment for her leveling process.

Some people are courteous, and some people are selfish tools who have no consideration for other people. SE can't fix that, but I'd honestly perfer to see the level 50's in their own queue entirely and not in the low level, leveling dungeons. Maybe as the game gains in popularity and subscriptions this can be a reality.

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Originally Posted by Ryuukishi

You know you can actually buy the Coliseum pieces on the market board! For some reason they are not Untradeable like most dungeon gear.

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There is a slight difference between the coliseum gear and taffeta set. The Coliseum is a very dark black - you can't get that color with the Taffeta set (I did say the difference was slight!). I had crafted a set for myself to test out, but I personally wasn't that fond of how the shawl/skirt colors carried over, so I ended up selling it in favor of my Coliseum set that I already had.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

There is a slight difference between the coliseum gear and taffeta set. The Coliseum is a very dark black - you can't get that color with the Taffeta set (I did say the difference was slight!). I had crafted a set for myself to test out, but I personally wasn't that fond of how the shawl/skirt colors carried over, so I ended up selling it in favor of my Coliseum set that I already had.

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No, I'm aware of the crafted pieces, but you can also buy the actual Coliseum dungeon pieces on the market board. I know because I bought a couple of them myself after getting tired of farming Dzemael.

Loosing a roll to a geared lvl 50 or to a level 20 that needs....you loose the same way. Then what? what will be the complain then?

Play the class that can need.

Except not in random groups you can set rules, but really not hard to farm.
I farmed brayflox with my tank because I wanted cavalry set lvl 32. Finally got last piece at level 44 just before AF. Did I need it? Yes I wanted the full set.

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Originally Posted by Ryuukishi

No, I'm aware of the crafted pieces, but you can also buy the actual Coliseum dungeon pieces on the market board. I know because I bought a couple of them myself after getting tired of farming Dzemael.

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lol, sorry! Seems it's way too early for me to be up and posting! :X Just reread your post and it clearly refers to buying coliseum gear. I have no idea how I jumped over to crafting gear...

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Originally Posted by Ryuukishi

No, I'm aware of the crafted pieces, but you can also buy the actual Coliseum dungeon pieces on the market board. I know because I bought a couple of them myself after getting tired of farming Dzemael.

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It astounds me how many PF's you see for DD first room grind, where they do that repetitive pull into the corner, and but don't want to go immediately on to finish off the first boss in the next room who has a 100% marketboard sellable drop, most of which is desired by many for glamour purposes. I've heard of people winning the roll for the colliseum gear who already had it equipped, and I know in a situation where I'd been doing mult runs for it that would annoy me so I just make sure not to wear it on the way in.

Well personally as someone who has only recently started the game with a new character, I think things are best left as they are. Even as a dps, queues for low level dungeons seem to be only 10-15 minutes most of the time. I would rather roll against 3 other people and have short queues than not have enough people to do low level dungeons. Having higher levels come in and help explain the fights to me and such is really helpful, and it gives them something worthwhile for doing it and keeping enough patience to explain the encounters for me.

This is just my observation as a new player in low level dungeons, but it seems like the system works great now and I certainly think rolling against me for vanity items is completely fair even if it's an upgrade for me.

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Originally Posted by Oxidine

My eyes are fine, may I ask what you think is wrong with them? From what I have seen people are not actually reading what I have posted and they are just trolling this topic.

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not trolling just bored and not interested but that doesnt matter, what matters is you look like you where trying to transform into mickey mouse and something went horribly wrong.

Its nice to see that some people actually know how to read.
Because i dont want this reply to be ungodly long im going to just say things and see who bites.
1. People keep tossing "fair" it to the mix. There is nothing fair when a level 50 tank needs equipment 10+ levels lower that ARE equip-able to a lancer when the lancer CANT need it.
2. People say you cant need an item that's not meant for you. If its equip-able its useable. Its my right to choose how i play my characters and its not fair that the system is trying to force me down one path. If they wanna prevent us from Needing it then they should just remove us from the equip list.
3. Yes, i do believe a character leveling up needs the equipment more than a level 50 trying to make some quick change OR using it for its appearance.

I think the OP might be a troll. :)

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Originally Posted by Oxidine

This whole comment is based on selfishness.
You say im wrong however this is my idea, just because you dont agree dosnt make me wrong. You also dont "NEED" to glamour stuff, you dont "NEED" to make materia, and you dont "NEED" to sell it. When you "NEED" and item from a level 15 dungeon when your level 50 your just being a dick. (UNLESS no one actually NEEDS it)
Also your hypocritical, there is no "fairness" in rolling need on anything. Roll greed and play fair.

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Don't *need* materia? Sir, you have a rude awakening in store for you when you get to the Novus relic weapon grind.