Item Level Caps in Dungeons

I see no other way around this if SE is to retake control over the dungeons they've created. The speedrun mentality is, for lack of a better metaphor, a cancer that is plaguing the game. Even mid-level dungeons aren't safe from people who think they're going for some kind of world record.

The following caps just might be what the game needs:

*Amdapor Keep|Wanderer's Palace (iLv 65)
*Pharos Sirius | Copperbell Mines HM | Haukke Manor HM (iLv 75)
*Lost City of Amdapor | Brayflox's Longstop HM | Halatali HM (iLv 85)

I'd see something like this as an intervention that a lot of players abusing the dungeon system need in order to preserve the game's integrity.

Brain exploded at ilvl 65 requirement for Amdapor Keep of all places.

How is running dungeons as effectivelly as you can "a cancer". Want to take as long as you want in the dungeon, find players with the same mentality. At the moment you have the option to run it fast or slow. Options are good. I join a roulette and go with the rest, rest want to go slow. no problem, rest want to go fast no problems either.

You are just wanting one method to cater to you, because you don't like how some like to run dungeons. To be fair, it makes you worse. Want to run X dungeon with a cap of Y ilvl? Find others who want to also, make party, done.

Running dungeons how they want which does not involve any cheats, hacks or bug abuse is NOT abusing the dungeon in anyway shape or form.

People just want to have fun while they play. Sometimes people want to make a challenge for themselves with a risk of losing - it makes the rewards more worthwhile. Like a Nuzlocke Pokemon challenge, speed runs are a way to challenge yourself and your party's skills. I agree that it should be decided upon beforehand, though, but in a threatless world, sometimes you gotta try and make some excitement for yourself. But you can't say it's a cancer on the game when it's considered other peoples' way of feeling challenged, rewarded, and excitement, and ultimately having fun with their playstyle.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

How is running dungeons as effectivelly as you can "a cancer". Want to take as long as you want in the dungeon, find players with the same mentality. At the moment you have the option to run it fast or slow. Options are good. I join a roulette and go with the rest, rest want to go slow. no problem, rest want to go fast no problems either.

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The problem I see with this argument is that people are making speedruns a de facto requirement, whether other players want it or not. This mentality is doing no one a service, least of all new players who have yet to learn these endgame dungeons and the mechanics therein.

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Originally Posted by Ardan

Brain exploded at ilvl 65 requirement for Amdapor Keep of all places.

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Cap, not requirement.

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

Cap, not requirement.

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Misread, derp. Still ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

The problem I see with this argument is that people are making speedruns a de facto requirement, whether other players want it or not. This mentality is doing no one a service, least of all new players who have yet to learn these endgame dungeons and the mechanics therein.

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What needs to change if anything, is to reduce the redonkulous amounts of myth needed for so much stuff at endgame. Animus, 13500 myth. can you fault players wanting to get through it as fast as possible? Novus does it right with options on gaining Alexanderite plus more options coming in 2.3.

Also, new players can see what they can achieve when they gear up so can also incentivize them into sticking with it. If they see high geared players doing about the same as they do in dungeons,wouldn't that be more disheartening? As why spend time gearing up when you don't do anything better ^^

An interesting idea, but those caps are just too high for what you're proposing. Speedruns will still be easy, especially for the Brayflox tier. Below 50 dungeons cap you at 2-3 character levels above the level requirement. Given that a gear level isn't exactly equivalent to a character level, I think setting the cap to be exactly 10 iLvls above the minimum requirement would make more sense, ie.

AK and WP: 55(from 45)
Copperbell, Hawkke, Pharos: 60(from 50)
Brayflox, Halatali, Lost City: 65(from 55)

*I accept ridicule if I actually got the base iLvl minimums wrong :D

Those caps would probably shut down speedruns pretty quickly, but lots of people wouldn't want to run these period because what's the point of having all this awesome i100+ gear if Coil is literally the only place it can be used?

But here's an idea: Don't iLvl sync to some arbitrary number. iLvl sync to the tank. If you've got a high level tank, that's all fine and dandy and you can choose what to do. Come in with an i55 tank and the DPS will no longer be capable of stealing hate just by looking at something and they certainly won't push for a speedrun. This may push Speedruns back to the Party Finder, where it arguably belongs, instead of having the expectation prevalent in the Duty Finder.

New requirements :
-Posting against Speedruns : having an Animus.
-Posting about queue timers : Tank/DPS/Haaler ilvl 80.

More to come, if whiners are still continue to flood.

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Originally Posted by Alcyon1

New requirements :
-Posting against Speedruns : having an Animus.
-Posting about queue timers : Tank/DPS/Haaler ilvl 80.

More to come, if whiners are still continue to flood.

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Addendum:
- Whining about speedruns : work at SE with ability to implement changes

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Originally Posted by sanosuke001

Addendum:
- Whining about speedruns : work at SE with ability to implement changes

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Additional:
- Whining about the type of run (SR or otherwise) when the majority want to run it a certain way in Dungeon Finder with randoms and not making a party with PF, FC or LS mates to run it exactly how you want to run it :D

https://warosu.org/data/tg/img/0259/...3361246988.jpg


If your party is capable of killing mobs at a certain pace why go slower?

The majority of these speedruns are pretty standard across ALL MMOs.

What a bunch of autistic derp is this.

I can't even think if a group where this has happened.

90+% of the time the tank will ask the other 10 is a split of just doing small pulls middle sized pulls and large. To be your anger stems from one person who did it without asking. This isvery far from the norm if DF.

As for PF, ya this is the norm, most are people trying to upgrade weapons, a mindless grind that eats part of your soul each second you do it, thus to save what little remains they(me included) want sub 7 min rruns.

I think this is just an over reaction to a rare occurrence.

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Originally Posted by Donjo

AK and WP: 55(from 45)
Copperbell, Hawkke, Pharos: 60(from 50)
Brayflox, Halatali, Lost City: 65(from 55)

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Think you got the first two sets right considering the equipment they drop. Brayflox, Halatali and Lost City might do well if capped at 70 (the ilevel of the stuff that drops in them).

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Originally Posted by Ardan

Misread, derp. Still ridiculous.

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Even more ridiculous. God forbid people desire to do things efficiently! The [sarcasm]nerve![/sarcasm]

Even if these did successfully get into the game, it wouldn't change the fact people want to get things done and over with ASAP. While the dungeons are interesting to a fault, it does not detract from the fact that I have to go about the acquisition of myth and soldiery repeatedly, which can get quite tedious. This is a pretty common feeling amongst the playerbase.

Speedrunning is a means to an end, simply that. It is not taking the game's integrity away. The thing that is doing that is the current design of the game, which forces us to spam the same content rather intensively week by week for soldiery and whenever we need boatloads of Mythology.

I would like to see a higher iLVL on the ex primals. iLVL 67 is just.. too much (or not enough in this case.) new people don't understand the mechanics most times, so at least give them a small window of having better gear to possibly survive the encounter for longer than 30 seconds. Specially for those who understand the fight, but end up getting killed because of lag. keeping new people up and dealing with others getting hit dur to lag, and sometimes my own lag can be incredibly grievous.
I primarily play healer, so when I see someone in af1 in titan ex, my heart just sinks.

I might be putting my hopes into a higher ilvl for primals too much, but I think it might help a little.

This only works in specific situations. If you're all level 50 running totorak on duty roulette, what the hell is the point of taking it slow?
Most of the time you get tanks in i100 and they'll either be considerate of lower level people who haven't hit the cap of that dungeon and ask if they want a full clear, OR the lowerlevel will ask and the tank will comply. (Regardless of if they've actually replied lol) So it really isn't an issue. Sure you get unlucky sometimes and SUPER COOL LEVEL 50 TANK GUNNA SPRINT THROUGH ASAP but that isn't the majority.

Your caps would take care that I can only get my Myth tomes through raids. I couldn't play ANY of the 4 man dungeons anymore. Hence no like lol. It's a player problem, not a mechanic problem. When I tank, I ask the other players (mainly Healer) if it is cool to do a mass pull. I prefer speed runs but I go with the majority. When I go in there as DD, I just go with the flow anyways. If people would have a minimum of communication and will for compromises, this thread would not even exist.

I have seen Tanks in Ilevel 90+ followed from Healers in AF gear and white items being yelled at because they could not keep the Tank's Health up after he pulled a dozen of mobs. Or tanks accompanied from DD's in AF gear. Then they wonder why they run out of TP and die. Mass pulls are fine but only if the entire group is up for them AND able to handle them.

How on earth are you expecting people to get soldiery when you level cap the dungeons to 85? Hitting i90+ is so incredibly easy now and I don't want to or have the space to carry around lower level gear. I think the cancer is ideas like these not people who like to complete things efficiently.

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Originally Posted by TomTom1968

Your caps would take care that I can only get my Myth tomes through raids. I couldn't play ANY of the 4 man dungeons anymore. Hence no like lol. It's a player problem, not a mechanic problem. When I tank, I ask the other players (mainly Healer) if it is cool to do a mass pull. I prefer speed runs but I go with the majority. When I go in there as DD, I just go with the flow anyways. If people would have a minimum of communication and will for compromises, this thread would not even exist.

I have seen Tanks in Ilevel 90+ followed from Healers in AF gear and white items being yelled at because they could not keep the Tank's Health up after he pulled a dozen of mobs. Or tanks accompanied from DD's in AF gear. Then they wonder why they run out of TP and die. Mass pulls are fine but only if the entire group is up for them AND able to handle them.

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This is the most--if not the only--useful counter-argument of the lot so far.

Yes, it is a player problem as opposed to a mechanics problem. As a tank, I am of almost the exact opposite line of thinking as I absolutely will not be hounded into taking on more enemies than I can handle, nor will I subject healers to any more stress than necessary (particularly where those Illuminati Gliders are concerned). Succeeding in the dungeon is far more important than breaking some imaginary record that isn't even part of any achievement system that I'm aware of.

I think speedrunning would not be nearly the problem I perceive it to be were your conditions met more often by tanks. As things stand, too many tanks are of a one-size-fits-all mentality, putting themselves and other in needless danger just for the sake of trying (and usually failing) to take 2 minutes off their time.

Obviously every group will be different. So a tank shouldn't assume it will be fine. However, it gets really boring doing 3 mobs at a time with absolutely no risk to anyone, it takes no skill. Tanks and healers dont have to pop cooldowns, that gets painful. If you are worried, just put on your af gear as healer or tank :p

Obviously every group will be different. So a tank shouldn't assume it will be fine. However, it gets really boring doing 3 mobs at a time with absolutely no risk to anyone, it takes no skill. Tanks and healers dont have to pop cooldowns, that gets painful. If you are worried, just put on your af gear as healer or tank :p

What's the point of getting higher tier gear if you can't use it?

A better solution is to give players more avenues to get their myth it's the developers who shoehorn the players into doing whatever is the fastest to get the ridiculous amount of myth required.