Gosh darn it

Can someone share with me the conventional wisdom behind where each job should rank in DPS in an average fight, and what numbers your standard raider should be hitting in T6-T9?

I ask because my group was falling about 3,000 hit points short of defeating Rafflesia using the burn method about 4 times in a row last night, and I felt like I wasn't pulling my weight as an i98 MNK. The i94 DRG and I were very close in total damage done (I was slightly higher). I am using Wave Patas and he had the Allagan Spear.

I am by no means a perfect or top tier DPS player, but I don't feel like I suck - sometimes I will leave BFB un-activated for a bit too long or forgot to re-apply touch of death for about 10s, but I don't lose GL3 often, if ever.

Since I don't have access to a parser, I'm wondering if anyone has had experience with being an average MNK, then changing to practicing and focusing to an extreme degree on being perfect with rotations and DoT/Buff clipping, and saw a huge DPS improvement? Like a 30-40 dps improvement from that?

Sorry for the rambling and lack of clarity, I just feel disheartened that I wasn't a far-and-away leader in DPS, and I feel like as a MNK I am expected to be.

From my own experience;

1) Clip demolish if under 6s
2) Clip Touch of Death if under 3s
3) Always use CDs as they come up (except Perfect Balance)
4) You should obtain a parser for personal use (testing rotations and what have you)

Do you open with Perfect Balance? If tethered, are they quick breaks or do have to travel far to break them. As your going through your rotations I personally don't hold my offensive buffs I just use them as they are up. Now if you open and use a potion of strength, it should more than likely be up in time for the bee or super slug.

are you strafing to keep yourself facing the target? auto attacks contribute a lot to a monk's dps.

At your iLvl a MNK is expected to hit 360+ in certain fights. Sustaining 400+ if you're uninterrupted. This is taking T8 into consideration. From what I've heard, if you have the DPS to beat T6 with the burn strat, you have enough DPS for T8

Also, I wouldn't be too hard on yourself either. Last time I checked t6 thru 9 isn't solo, it's requires a team of 7 other ppl and communication. Just work on the things you think will improve your numbers. You'll get there, just try and keep a cool head about it and you'll get the clear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Exstal

From my own experience;

1) Clip demolish if under 6s
2) Clip Touch of Death if under 3s
3) Always use CDs as they come up (except Perfect Balance)
4) You should obtain a parser for personal use (testing rotations and what have you)

---

1 - Interesting, I have been trying to let it get down 1s or expiring to get myself another snap punch
2 - Yeah this is my biggest weak point in my rotation, I need to pay more attention to it. I probably need to re-do my UI so that I can see all my buffs and debuffs more clearly
3 - I try to save them (at least BFB) for times when I am not taking dmg or moving too much.
4 - I play on PS4, no can do. This is why I agree with SE on this, I am not able to use it at all so I feel that PC players get an advantage over me, haha.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by duceTRE

Do you open with Perfect Balance? If tethered, are they quick breaks or do have to travel far to break them. As your going through your rotations I personally don't hold my offensive buffs I just use them as they are up. Now if you open and use a potion of strength, it should more than likely be up in time for the bee or super slug.

---

Yes, of course I open with PB, usually Shoulder Tackle>PB>Demo>SP>SP>IR>DK>TW>BS>BFB>TruStr>Demo>ToD.
Usually I just have our melee players eat the vines if it isn't on a spit to build LB, we have a BRD do mana for the WHM so it isn't really an issue. But when we break them its quick, I will either try to stay in melee range of the boss or run out and then should tackle back - FoW>FoF if I think its prudent.
I was using Potion of STR after first blighted to ensure we pushed through with just 1 bee, so it wasn't available in P3 ever.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chokee

are you strafing to keep yourself facing the target? auto attacks contribute a lot to a monk's dps.

---

I could probably re-activate the joy-stick lock-on to do this, I took it off because I would lock on accidentally in stuff like Titan HM or Twinny and get gonked by a landslide or twisters. I suppose I could just be a better player.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NintenPyjak64

At your iLvl a MNK is expected to hit 360+ in certain fights. Sustaining 400+ if you're uninterrupted. This is taking T8 into consideration. From what I've heard, if you have the DPS to beat T6 with the burn strat, you have enough DPS for T8

---

That's horrible. I think on a mediocre run I did 280. That makes me feel like I suck ass. Is it possible that I am screwing myself really bad by losing auto attacks on movement with PS4 movements?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by duceTRE

Also, I wouldn't be too hard on yourself either. Last time I checked t6 thru 9 isn't solo, it's requires a team of 7 other ppl and communication. Just work on the things you think will improve your numbers. You'll get there, just try and keep a cool head about it and you'll get the clear.

---

I have a clear with the non-burn method. I just feel like as a MNK I should be outDPSing everyone unquestionably, and that since I feel like I'm a good player that should be exacerbated, and its obviously not the case.

Thanks guys - more feedback is appreciated.

If 280 is what you're getting it certainly sounds like you're losing auto attacks. Using a controller, click the left stick to lock on to the mob while you strafe from back to flank to avoid this problem. It takes some getting used to but it should help you largely.

Regarding Auto-Attacks:

When all of them are hitting, Auto-Attacks contribute about 30% of a Monk's DPS alone. If you know you're missing any of them, it'll be a boon if you fix it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ehayte

4 - I play on PS4, no can do. This is why I agree with SE on this, I am not able to use it at all so I feel that PC players get an advantage over me, haha.

---

Oh, hard life. In that case, get a PC friend who has a parser handy (and some free time) and spend time time with different rotations.

Quote:

---

Yes, of course I open with PB, usually Shoulder Tackle>PB>Demo>SP>SP>IR>DK>TW>BS>BFB>TruStr>Demo>ToD.
Usually I just have our melee players eat the vines if it isn't on a spit to build LB, we have a BRD do mana for the WHM so it isn't really an issue.

---

This video is good too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czzLF4IfFaM

So for you it'd be, Tackle => ToD => PB => combos => rotation

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Exstal

Oh, hard life. In that case, get a PC friend who has a parser handy (and some free time) and spend time time with different rotations.

---

Lol fair enough - yes last night was the first time I had someone in voice with me with a parser I was able to communicate with.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Exstal

This video is good too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czzLF4IfFaM

So for you it'd be, Tackle => ToD => PB => combos => rotation

---

I had a feeling I'd be better served by throwing a ToD before PB - I should have known that from a cool-down standpoint anyways. Thanks for the link. Its not different from what I am *intending* to do all the time. When I get just a little off is when the mob turns and I will DK instead of BS because me getting to the rear is going to make me lost 1/2 a GCD so my buff stacking and clipping gets screwed and I will apply 2 Demos in a row or something : /

RE: Lock-On with controller - I know I just didn't like it, I'm just going to have to become better at togging it on and off in different phases. Looks like I was wrong in my assumption that it didn't matter at all when I first took it off my stick-toggle mapping.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Exstal

Clip demolish if under 6s

---

can't i just use snap then refresh demolish next combo? i'd lose 1-2 ticks if i clip it, but i would also lose 1-2 ticks if i don't clip it since there would be like ~3s where demolish isn't applied. i'm not good with theorycrafting so i really can't tell which is better. it might help me finally push 500dps on a dummy hahahaha

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ehayte

That's horrible. I think on a mediocre run I did 280. That makes me feel like I suck ass. Is it possible that I am screwing myself really bad by losing auto attacks on movement with PS4 movements?

---

280 for the entire fight is perfectly decent with your gear, but with more practice I expect you could push it to 300+.

360+/400+ is unrealistic for your gear on T6.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chokee

can't i just use snap then refresh demolish next combo? i'd lose 1-2 ticks if i clip it, but i would also lose 1-2 ticks if i don't clip it since there would be like ~3s where demolish isn't applied. i'm not good with theorycrafting so i really can't tell which is better. it might help me finally push 500dps on a dummy hahahaha

---

I think that question is likely answered by more veteran Monks than myself in The Monk Temple thread. I think you can get away with applying Demolish after it falls (I've heard of some Monks who prefer it that way) but I was told just to keep all DoTs up if possible, so that's what I've always tried to do. I'll do some testing later today!

I've done a lot of testing using the sub 6 second as well as another Snap Punch and let it drop briefly. Either way the difference is very small, and isn't going to be any kind of game changer. I've had parses come out higher/lower consecutively either way. I just recommend that you find a method that you are comfortable with and stick with it. Maintaining your flow mid fight is going to be biggest benefit to stabilizing your DPS. I know a lot of monks that will try to over think a particular situation, and screw something up. Min/maxing is great and strive to eek out all I can, but some of the arguments for some particulars result very tiny gains. So my advice is test it on a dummy, and feel out your comfort level with it. Reliability in my opinion is more important that something might net you 1-2 DPS (sometimes maybe even less) in the end, but risk you screwing up if it's not coming naturally.

Anyway, back on topic. I agree with Scarebears, 280ish for that gear level is good, and as you and your team get more comfortable with the fight it should increase a bit. T6 in itself can just cause some bad luck anyway. It's far from a training dummy fight where you'd attain much higher results with the same gear. From the initial description it sounds like the OPs might just be shy of having what they need to consistently use the burn strat. Too many times I see people get hung up on only trying to do the fight one way regardless of if they can execute it consistently. Sounds like with a touch more gear they will be in the position they want to be now though.

Parser aren't allowed. I suggest using the battle dummies and look at the damage on them

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ricdeau

I've done a lot of testing using the sub 6 second as well as another Snap Punch and let it drop briefly. Either way the difference is very small, and isn't going to be any kind of game changer. I've had parses come out higher/lower consecutively either way. I just recommend that you find a method that you are comfortable with and stick with it. Maintaining your flow mid fight is going to be biggest benefit to stabilizing your DPS. I know a lot of monks that will try to over think a particular situation, and screw something up. Min/maxing is great and strive to eek out all I can, but some of the arguments for some particulars result very tiny gains. So my advice is test it on a dummy, and feel out your comfort level with it. Reliability in my opinion is more important that something might net you 1-2 DPS (sometimes maybe even less) in the end, but risk you screwing up if it's not coming naturally.

Anyway, back on topic. I agree with Scarebears, 280ish for that gear level is good, and as you and your team get more comfortable with the fight it should increase a bit. T6 in itself can just cause some bad luck anyway. It's far from a training dummy fight where you'd attain much higher results with the same gear. From the initial description it sounds like the OPs might just be shy of having what they need to consistently use the burn strat. Too many times I see people get hung up on only trying to do the fight one way regardless of if they can execute it consistently. Sounds like with a touch more gear they will be in the position they want to be now though.

---

Your first paragraph was on-topic as well, hehe : D

Yeah, Obviously we we're executing well enough to live to the psuedo-enrage (10 stacks of slimes), so it is either a matter of l2p or get more gear. I will be trying to do a bit of both : D

We're going again Sunday so I am going to do some practicing in T5 or something with my lock-on targeting to see if I can notice a difference in my dps if I am hitting all of my auto-attacks. I really appreciate all the feed-back so far and if anyone else has more to say I'd be eager to hear it.

Sounds like you are doing great. Were you and the DRG both top DPS around 280-300?

What were the other DD's?
I'm generally top in that fight as SMN due to no down time on Bouquet and double/triple DoTs with a Bee and/or Pod.
I95 with Omnitome.
I think I'm close to 320 in that fight. Possibly more.

I lov the lock on when playing in ps4, I hated it before when I still playing mnk intensely. The way I practice is on a dummy and visualize that I'm fighting Titan ex. Visualize all the move and give ur self a 6second timer. And just practice locking and unlocking while ur doing ur rotation. Every fight I go into now I'll always lock on it has become super easy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

Were you and the DRG both top DPS around 280-300?

What were the other DD's?

---

DRG fell off last night - I topped every time hitting between 300-310 consistently with lock-on, DRG stayed in the 260s. BRD was hanging pretty well with everyone, and BLM improved his accuracy so he was hitting 270+.

I know I can still do better as I am still adjusting to the lock-on movement during mechanics and getting back in a timely fashion. I've never ran with a SMN before on that fight I don't think, but I could imagine if they know what they are doing they are deadly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ehayte

DRG fell off last night - I topped every time hitting between 300-310 consistently with lock-on, DRG stayed in the 260s. BRD was hanging pretty well with everyone, and BLM improved his accuracy so he was hitting 270+.

I know I can still do better as I am still adjusting to the lock-on movement during mechanics and getting back in a timely fashion. I've never ran with a SMN before on that fight I don't think, but I could imagine if they know what they are doing they are deadly.

---

Awesome improvement.

I would say that the BRD and DRG in your group may have to work harder as well. If you are using the LOS method then the DRG can easily apply all their buffs/debuffs which the 10% Piercing damage will boost BRD damage by a great amount. I don't think I've seen a BRD have to sing Ballad during that fight since it's not very long (so no -20% Damage)

I think the rest of your team should be hitting around 280, average. The BLM should have an AOE advantage with Bulbs, and Bees and DRG and BRD will have good burst damage on Bulbs as well. You may not even get to switch to bulbs if they burst them fast enough.

I'll look ya up in game, we'll go hit up some dummies and see if theres anything to improve on.

You're going to need a pretty exceptional amount of group DPS to survive the AOE attack from the slimes. All of your main DPS classes are probably going to meet or exceed 300.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WhiteWindHD

I'll look ya up in game, we'll go hit up some dummies and see if theres anything to improve on.

---

That would be amazing : D I'd definitely be into that.

T6 isn't much of a DPS race, as there is no enrage timer. 280ish DPS is fine, so long as bulbs/hornets are getting burned quickly. The mechanics of the fight reduce your overall DPS, I'm typically 50-70 DPS lower in T6 than on a dummy (on Dragoon), this is due to dealing with the mechanics and saving some burst moves for the bulbs/hornets.

Side note: we normally do super-slug.. Burn phase that portion does need high DPS, since it is a sort of psuedo-enrage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ehayte

snip

---

burn method is for 100/110 wep DPS not 95 wep DPS

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Empressia

burn method is for 100/110 wep DPS not 95 wep DPS

---

Yeah, we were just rockin' so hard we thought we would try. We switched to Super Slug and one-shotted it last night, lol.

The good news is this thread gave me some important insight that increased my dps!