Holding Aggro - Need Assistance

Been doing low level roulette (GLD 41) with no issues, but now I need to run higher level dungeons constantly to push to 50. I've bought the latest gear and weapon appropriate for my level. My MO is usually to pull 1st enemy or group w/shield bash, pop flash a couple times to keep the group on me. Then alternate between fast>savage>rage of halone combo with flash every 2-3 rotations or 1-2 if I have trouble holding onto the hate. I do use provoke, but I usually save it as a backup for if a mob gets away and I can't seem to pull it back in with anything else. This has always worked fine for me.

First high (ish) level experience @ Stone Vigil: used my same methods, but couldn't seem to keep aggro off the healer. By the time we got to the end the mobs were ALL over the healer. Flash, alternating between mobs with combos, provoke. I could NOT get them off my pt, no matter what I was doing. The party hated me. What am I doing wrong?

Help :confused::(

First off: Gladiator 41? Or did you mean Paladin? The difference between class and job is vital, especially since Shield Oath (Paladin-only) greatly boosts the aggro you generate. That's the first thing that I can think of, since I'm no tank expert, so not sure if some veterans here can tell if there is something wrong with your MO.

If you haven't unlocked PLD make sure you do that first then unlock shield oath through quests. For the rotation after that shield lob flash 2-3 times and start your halone combo. On groups with 3 or more mobs the halone combo can get tricky just weave in flash. If amob gets away and you use provoke follow it with shield lob to solidify your threat. I hope that helps

Mark the target you want groups to focus on. Then rotate your skills through the mobs. Don't just do your entire rotation on 1 mob. spread your rotation through the 3 or 4 mobs (that is the usual sized pull unless things go bad). Pay closer attention to the one you have marked. As other posters have said make sure you have Shield Oath up. Flash should only be necessary at the very beginning. once the mob is almost dead start to focus on the next one. ahead of th DPS switching over. If at that time you start to loose the aggro on that almost dead one don't worry. By the time it will focus on another player it should be dead.

Hi. As others have said, if you are not yet PLD, become PLD and use Shield Oath. It not only gives you more enmity but also less damage received.

Flash a lot. I have noticed that now when I do the low level roulette I flash much more than I did when I was leveling. When I go as WHM or BLM many times I find tanks don't flash enough (especially in the easiest dungeons.) Flash is not wasted (until the mob dies), enmity accumulates so i'ts not more efficient to save flashes for later. When there are more than 3 mobs you need to flash much more since it will take a lot of time to rotate attacks among them. Flash a lot then recover mp with the riot blade combo, on the mob you think needs it to keep aggro, or rotate.

If it's the healer that gets aggro, it means he is healing a lot. Maybe you and the rest of the party are getting a lot of damage and he has to heal a lot too. And it's a vicious circle sometimes since he has to heal himself which causes more aggro, he gets hit more, heals more, etc. If people avoid AoE attacks the healer will have to heal less and will create less enmity.

Provoke, as you say, is for recovering hate in an emergency, and it only will work if you keep attacking that mob.

It is much easier to keep enmity from the start than having to recover lost enmity. The party also helps here, trying not to steal hate from the tank and waiting till he has good aggro before attacking hard.

Stone Vigil is a difficult place the first times you go there. Try to have small groups of mobs and not make big pulls, this helps for keeping enmity and avoiding a lot of damage and heals. Edit: For parties that are having a bad time, sleeping mobs works fine in Stone Vigil. Aevis can't be made sleep. If you don't need it, it's quicker to not sleep the mobs, though.

I remember at that lvl I would shield lob pull, flash, flash again, then go into my Halone combo, as said not on just one mob, spread out. SO on mob one I wold do Fast blade > Savage blade, switch to mob two, Rage of Halone. Go to mob three and repeat as if mob one, then same to mob four. Flash as neccesary.

Instead of the second flash you could go into your Halone combo on the one mob then spread it out among the other mobs. I like the two flashes because the first will add hate and blind and the second just adds a lil more hate, and possibly blind on a mob that may have resisted. At times the best use of flash is every time blind wears. So when you see it wear, use it. If it's in the middle of a combo it's ok, it won't break it. The less you get hit, the more hate you keep.

Hope it helps

Syn

When new 50 and maybe with the GC i55 weapon, you only need pray the dps is smart enough to take care aggro markers and hold dps when needed.

As the state of the game it is now, on your lv50 duties you will be paired with i90+ dps most of the time, so be prepared for losing aggro at every pull, every time. Spamming flash doesn't help, your mana so low that you will end it at first pull, and dps don't want you regenerate mana for second pull. Most likely if you hold 1 second more, some dps will go ahead to aggro next mobs and take them to you.

Hi guys, new to tanking, and I'm leveling my MRD toward WAR. Did my first dungeons last night, and I sucked the first time out. I knew it. I was like the fat guy, eating chips who knows why he's fat, but I have to finish this bag first, before I get going. I have Flash, though my MP keeps me down to using it only a couple of times, and that's if I don't Stoneskin. I have a lot of higher level gear that I have plundered previously, but I can't wear it yet, because of my current level. I flashed, I threw Tomahawk, I used Skull Sunder, and Overpower, but I had a heck of a time getting the aggro off the MNK, BRD and SCH. What can I do better or am I fighting the simple math that they are higher level and more equipped than myself? Also, does anyone have a good macro for marking? I use a PS4, and I might be better off just making a macro that says mark this target as next number. Yes, I have a mouse and keyboard as well. Any tips would help.

Hi, for marking I have added 1 & 2 in my crossbar. (enough to start a fight :) )

I am PS4 user, don't forget you have R2 then L2 or L2 then R2 as an additional crossbar.
Some like to add marking with a skill for example :
/micon Tomahawk
/mark target1 <t>
/ac Tomahawk <t>

For MRD, flash is a nice tool when mobs are not available to be catch by overpower or when you don't want to break combo chain, or to save TP. But it is normal that your mp can't stand an intensive use.

About aggro, depends If you got a chance to start enmity moves or your team went bersek :)

It is all situational there is not only one way, example you have some melees:
-> Mark and advance to pack
-> when in range Tomahawk n°1 and continue to advance
-> OPTIONAL : mobs names going towards you are orange and not yet red, you can use a buff they will aggro you
-> If all mobs in range of overpower cone do it, if they are around you flash
-> place mobs so they are not around you (you don't parry in your back if i am correct), and to ease melee dps, you flash/overpower while doing so
In an Ideal world dps start dps now and you can keep aggro, but they probably started after the tomahwk :)
-> if you haven't done a 2nd overpower do it now
-> Start enmity combos switching targets to control aggro bars and throwing overpower as needed.

All can be different in a AoE heavy team, you will be doing a lot more overpower

Thaliss is on point there. My MRD is only 26 but he rarely looses aggro. All I do with him is position myself to have the mobs in front of me and overpower away after I toss a flash. What was said about the orange name mobs aggroing you when you use a buff is correct, I do that on PLD. As for parry from back, not sure will have to test it, although I do know I can block while my back is turned on PLD which is odd.

I will have to get back on my MRD and see how things go with just OP spam ^.^

Syn

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Originally Posted by EricCartmenez

Did my first dungeons last night, and I sucked the first time out.

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Ha! :) Me too. I was too nervous. Don't worry, that goes away with some practice to get comfortable.

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I have Flash, though my MP keeps me down to using it only a couple of times, and that's if I don't Stoneskin.

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I've never used either as Warrior (just getting to level 50 now...). Overpower is better than cross-classed flash. I'm sure stoneskin can help, but healers can take care of this side of things themselves. Sometimes they can also get a bit miffed when someone uses one of "their" protective spells :) And a healer's stoneskin will actually be better than your cross-classed stoneskin too... they get some traits to buff it a bit.

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I flashed, I threw Tomahawk, I used Skull Sunder, and Overpower, but I had a heck of a time getting the aggro off the MNK, BRD and SCH. What can I do better or am I fighting the simple math that they are higher level and more equipped than myself?

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Try this in low-level dungeons:

1. Tomahawk into the mob group
2. Run through all the mobs to get to the other side of them.
3. Use overpower (this will automatically turn you to face the mobs).
-If you're worried about losing hate, use overpower multiple times at this stage (2 bad guys = 2 overpowers, 3 bad guys = 3 overpowers...). You can even throw in an extra one if you'd like. Once you get used to things, you'll find you can usually get away with 2 mobs = 1 overpower and 3 mobs = 2 overpowers.
4. Then start your Heavy Swing - Skull Sunder - Butcher's Block (if available) combo back on the first mob.
5. Continue to use your Heavy Swing - Skull Sunder - Butcher's Block (if available) combo rotating through the rest of the mobs.
6. At this point... you should be worry-free. Feel free to do whatever you'd like. You can begin monitoring the enmity levels on the different mobs and just hitting whoever you think you should.

Also, after you get comfortable, try throwing in some cooldowns (Foresight, Bloodbath..) in-between moves. As a warrior, you'll need to get used to this for higher level fights.

If you're interested in some more reading-up... check out some of these posts:

This thread by Paikis is a good starter, and what I read up on when I started out:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...arrior-Tanking

Here's a post by Kitru (post #28) that talks about the different possible Warrior combos and what they can be used for:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post1857709

Here's another post by Kitru (post #38) on maximizing Warrior DPS (once you understand how to control enmity):
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post1860098

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Also, does anyone have a good macro for marking? I use a PS4, and I might be better off just making a macro that says mark this target as next number.

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I am on PS4 as well. I don't use any macros, though. I find them to be clunky... but others swear by them, so do what works for you.

Sometimes a macro won't "run properly" and can just mess up.
But always... a macro cannot be "pre-entered" into the system. That is, let's say you're doing your Heavy Swing - Skull Sunder - Butcher's Block combo. After you hit Heavy Swing, the Global Cool Down swirls around all your abilities and you can't use another one until that has completed. BUT... if you don't use a macro, you can "pre-enter" your Skull Sunder by hitting that button before the GCD has completed (during about the last 1/4 of it's clock-wise sweep). If you do it right, Skull Sunder will start up as fast as possible without you having to mash the button. This "pre-entering" helpfulness doesn't work if you convert skills to macros.

That's why I don't like macros, I like the control of using things on-demand and taking advantage of the pre-entering functionality. But find you're own niche.

I did find marking to be difficult for a while, but you get used to it. Helps a lot if you put them on a cross-bar somewhere.

How do you have your Cross-bars set up? I have 3 sets that I rotate through.

Set 1: L2 side contains all my "powerup" abilities (berserk, unchained, wrath-spending skills...)
Set 1: R2 side contains all my combo abilities (everything used a lot normally).

Set 2: L2 side contains all my "cooldown" abilities (foresight, bloodbath...)
Set 2: R2 side contains all my combo abilities (yes, again, exactly as setup on Set 1).

....Having my R2 side the exact same on Set 1 and Set 2 allows me to switch over to my cooldowns and use them while still running through my normal combos. This way I always have my normal combos available, and always on the same buttons, regardless of whether I'm trying to use my cooldowns or my power-ups.

Set 3: Just used for all the other stuff (running, warping, calling Chocobo...) I also have my numbering on Set 3. I'll mark stuff, then switch back to Set 1 as I run in and attack.
(My set 3 is actually set #8... shared between all my characters. Set 1 and 2 are character specific... it's amongst the millions of settings).

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Any tips would help.

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It's a big game with lots of information to get lost in. Try to remember to have fun! :) If you're not having fun... you're doing it wrong :)

Yeah, the L2/R2 thing is great, but if you were on R2 and meant to get the L2 bar, and you're running from muscle memory for speed, you can definitely zig when you should have zagged. :D Also, I have different classes, so my BRD needs things different from my WHM, etc. Yes, I know I can drag things in and out too, and I've got to the point that I set up bars depending on the task. Wish that hot bar switched when you change classes like bars 1-4. Be that as it may, thanks for the info. I found that it worked best if I ran into the faces of a mob and hit flash then immediately tomahawk and mark the first target(s). Cont'd next post due to characters.

...The problem is when the mob appears from nowhere and I'm fighting the boss, such as the end boss in Tam Tara. So I don't want to get the boss near the healer, but I don't want to run around grabbing aggro all over the room. As a WHM or DPS, I will run toward the tank, kiting the bad guys behind me in hopes that he or she notices and grabs them. In the case of Tam Tara and situations such as this, what's the best solution? Do I throw a T-hawk at them? Run in front of them and bring them back? Expect the DPS to take them? Whoever thought tanking was easy is an idiot! (points at self)

Usually when dps get aggro he needs run to you to take mob to you for grabbing. Tank cannot run all the room to take a mob because face the boss out the party is a priority in most cases. And make the boss roaming the room is bad thing too, unless needed by some boss mechanics.

Edit: there are also some adds that die so fast that is not even worth the try to tank them. Dps just have to kill them and maybe eat one or two hits.

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Originally Posted by EricCartmenez

So I don't want to get the boss near the healer, but I don't want to run around grabbing aggro all over the room. As a WHM or DPS, I will run toward the tank, kiting the bad guys behind me in hopes that he or she notices and grabs them. In the case of Tam Tara and situations such as this, what's the best solution?

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Yes, best case solution would be if you don't have to move at all and can T-hawk each guy and bring them to you. But you don't always get a nice line-of-sight to see where they all are for this... and sometimes they're out of range of T-hawk anyway so you still have to move.

When I do this, I just run around the room and pick them up as quickly as possible. 2 skeletons... try 1 overpower to pick them both up. Single spider-guy... T-hawk if you can. I tend to ignore the imps... DPS usually take those down on their own as they don't have a lot of health or do too much damage (thanks good DPS guys!). You might have to do something about the imps if DPS are new to the dungeon themselves and everyone else is ignoring them.

But, yeah... don't worry too much about running around the room, just try to do it quickly and settle down again. It's not ideal, but it has to be done... so just do it as fast as possible.
Once you have them all grouped, one more overpower may or may not be necessary... then you can kill them yourself (they don't have much health either) or the DPS will take care of them too.

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Cont'd next post due to characters.

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You can edit a post after to get around the limit... :)

Cold_Raven, that's a lot of great info!

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Originally Posted by Cold_Raven

You can edit a post after to get around the limit... :)

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I wondered how y'all were getting a thousand words and I was limited to thousand characters. LOL.

Always start a pull with Shield Lob. Always. If you do, the DPS are likely to follow your lead and begin attacking the target that was hit with Shield Lob first so that you don't have to waste time guessing which target they will hit first.

After that, use flash 2 or 3 times (only do 2 if you feel an urgent need to get threat on a target right away with a threat combo) and then do threat combo on the current target. When you feel that your lead in threat on that enemy is sufficient (as in, you have enough of a lead on a target that you can tell that it will die before it switches it's focus to a party member), switch to another enemy and do your threat combo on it. Try and throw in some flashes every now and then for those stragglers you haven't been able to hit with a threat combo yet.

And at that point all that's left to it is maintaining your lead.

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Originally Posted by Thaliss

-> place mobs so they are not around you (you don't parry in your back if i am correct), and to ease melee dps, you flash/overpower while doing so

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Pretty sure this is incorrect but not 100% positive. I tank all the time and pretty sure I still parry with my back turned.

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Originally Posted by EricCartmenez

...The problem is when the mob appears from nowhere and I'm fighting the boss, such as the end boss in Tam Tara. So I don't want to get the boss near the healer, but I don't want to run around grabbing aggro all over the room. As a WHM or DPS, I will run toward the tank, kiting the bad guys behind me in hopes that he or she notices and grabs them. In the case of Tam Tara and situations such as this, what's the best solution? Do I throw a T-hawk at them? Run in front of them and bring them back? Expect the DPS to take them? Whoever thought tanking was easy is an idiot! (points at self)

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Running the boss around the room in Tam-Tara as a tank isn't bad, I do it myself all the time because at that level DPS don't necessarily know that they need to take mobs to the tank if they get aggro. If the boss has a frontal cleave or other AoE attack, that's when you have to worry about keeping its face away from the group. A quick Tomahawk/Shield Lob and running over to group everything up for an Overpower/Flash to keep everything on you works just fine since the adds will be burned down quickly.

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Originally Posted by Nabian

Pretty sure this is incorrect but not 100% positive. I tank all the time and pretty sure I still parry with my back turned.

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You don't parry from the back or side.

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Originally Posted by EricCartmenez

...The problem is when the mob appears from nowhere and I'm fighting the boss, such as the end boss in Tam Tara. So I don't want to get the boss near the healer, but I don't want to run around grabbing aggro all over the room. As a WHM or DPS, I will run toward the tank, kiting the bad guys behind me in hopes that he or she notices and grabs them. In the case of Tam Tara and situations such as this, what's the best solution? Do I throw a T-hawk at them? Run in front of them and bring them back? Expect the DPS to take them? Whoever thought tanking was easy is an idiot! (points at self)

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There is no 1 answer for you. It depends upon the other classes in your group. Their abiltiy as a players and most of all your healer. Run each instance multiple times and know the mobs you will be facing. Then base your decision on that. Don't forget to test your healer to see how he handles himself early in the instance.

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Originally Posted by averlus

...used my same methods, but couldn't seem to keep aggro off the healer....

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Sounds like you have regen upon pulling. ^^;

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Originally Posted by Nicobo

Sounds like you have regen upon pulling. ^^;

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That is a good point. As a tank you need also be aware of any "outside" buffs that might have been applied to you that will direct aggro to another player. If you notice regen is still on, either remove it (optimal choice) or wait for it to wear. Even stoneskin being cast on you while you pull will direct the additional mobs towards your healer / caster.

Playing WHM recently has taught me a bit about that lol.

Syn

EDIT: LOL and if the heals asks why you remove my REGEN? Explain or (more fun) show with your next pull with it on ^.^ but by that point they should already know.

All of your accessories are for dps and not for tanking. Use jewelry that gives you VIT. You will be much easier to heal with proper gear.

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Originally Posted by EricCartmenez

...The problem is when the mob appears from nowhere and I'm fighting the boss, such as the end boss in Tam Tara. So I don't want to get the boss near the healer, but I don't want to run around grabbing aggro all over the room.

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Tam Tara is quite low level so it may well be that the healer or DPS that gets aggro runs away instead of running to the tank. The first reaction is running away from the mob, running to the tank is a learnt reaction.

Especially healers when the group is struggling a bit will have aggro of the mobs when adds appear. Typical case in low level dungeons is Haukke Manor normal mode last boss. The tank has to be very aware and pull aggro as soon as possible when adds appear. Tomahawk or shield lob first, move and attack if necessary. The healer or DPS should try to go near you if he gets aggro, but there might be AoE attacks and he shouldn't step into them. If you don't get aggro quickly you may find the healer is dead, and soon all the party most likely. The general rule would be trying to aggro all the adds as soon as possible. Getting aggro (while surviving :-) ) is the tank's main duty.

Pre-40, I had a few issues with hate on PLD. Prior to shield oath (or when doing low level roulettes pre-40), I found that if I had one DPS focusing on 1 mob and another DPS doing AOEs, keeping hate was actually a little difficult at times. Without the enmity bonus from shield oath, it took pretty careful use of flash and spreading out your halone combos to manage hate. Occasionally I would just rely on Provoke/Cover to handle things.

However, once I hit 40 and did dungeons that let me use shield oath, I found it to be easy mode, when it came to keeping hate. Shield Lob->Flash 2x-> Fast/Savage on one mob, Halone on another. Repeat, rotating which gets Halone. Once mob #1 is under 20%, ignore it and just focus on whatever is left. Repeat as mobs go down.