Archer's future

NB: this has nothing to do with Archer's nerf, AA or whatever.

I was looking at the new weapons and noticed that almost all of the bows have Piety attributes. It seemed quite odd to me, but then i thought that it might have something to do with the upcoming job system (Archer's job is supposed to be Bard).

But I still think it's an odd decision... Considering what we know so far, jobs are gonna be for parties and are gonna be some kind of "specialization" of each class, so there shouldn't be any reason why you might want your a Conjurer not to be WHM or your Gladiator not to be PLD... but what's the point in turning the most powerful DD class into a support Job? o.O I mean, once it becomes Bard it can't be that powerful (judging from those bows, Bard is gonna be piety based, so in order to be effective in that class you have to take away some points from STR and DEX) so unlike the other jobs, that are gonna enhance what the class is already doing, Bard is gonna be totally different from Archer.
My point is, if when the job system is implemented Archer is gonna be Bard, are we gonna be willing to give up on the DPS and get a support Job? Or will we still want a simple Archer?

Honestly I thought Lancer was fitting much better to become Bard (and now all of the former dragoons are gonna kill me ; ; ) since it's slightly less effective as DD than Archer, but already has some buffing skills for the whole party (Surges and Comrade in Arms). I've got th feeling that it was supposed to be a DD/support class at the beginning, but the idea got scrapped by the new team because... well Lancer has to be Draoon, it can't be helped :D

Obviously these are all speculations since we still know nothing about the job system, but i'd like to know what you guys think about it.

maybe piety for new ammo in terms of elemental arrows.

like how rangers upped mind to get better damage off of holy bolts?

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Originally Posted by Alcide

NB: this has nothing to do with Archer's nerf, AA or whatever.

I was looking at the new weapons and noticed that almost all of the bows have Piety attributes. It seemed quite odd to me, but then i thought that it might have something to do with the upcoming job system (Archer's job is supposed to be Bard).

But I still think it's an odd decision... Considering what we know so far, jobs are gonna be for parties and are gonna be some kind of "specialization" of each class, so there shouldn't be any reason why you might want your a Conjurer not to be WHM or your Gladiator not to be PLD... but what's the point in turning the most powerful DD class into a support Job? o.O I mean, once it becomes Bard it can't be that powerful (judging from those bows, Bard is gonna be piety based, so in order to be effective in that class you have to take away some points from STR and DEX) so unlike the other jobs, that are gonna enhance what the class is already doing, Bard is gonna be totally different from Archer.
My point is, if when the job system is implemented Archer is gonna be Bard, are we gonna be willing to give up on the DPS and get a support Job? Or will we still want a simple Archer?

Honestly I thought Lancer was fitting much better to become Bard (and now all of the former dragoons are gonna kill me ; ; ) since it's slightly less effective as DD than Archer, but already has some buffing skills for the whole party (Surges and Comrade in Arms). I've got th feeling that it was supposed to be a DD/support class at the beginning, but the idea got scrapped by the new team because... well Lancer has to be Draoon, it can't be helped :D

Obviously these are all speculations since we still know nothing about the job system, but i'd like to know what you guys think about it.

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Doesn't Piety Effect Bloodletter?

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Originally Posted by Krausus

Doesn't Piety Effect Bloodletter?

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Yes.

10characters

Not trolling on your topic, but I fail to understand how this post came about. I never heard, read anything that would suggest this ARC <job> BRD setup. Could you relay a cite?

But taking from the subject, It's completely incomprehensible how the two could relate. Though I have my theory that classes won't be bound to just a single job, ex. CON <job> BLM or WHM. THM would seem best for a BRD. But I haven't put a lot of thought into it.

Job speculation is the worst hobby to invest in FFXIV imo. Gives me a headache. Simply too little official information.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

Doesn't Piety Effect Bloodletter?

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LOL I had no clue it was that simple xD but well, the question Archer/Bard is still valid :P

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Originally Posted by MyKotoShi

Not trolling on your topic, but I fail to understand how this post came about. I never heard, read anything that would suggest this ARC <job> BRD setup. Could you relay a cite?

But taking from the subject, It's completely incomprehensible how the two could relate. Though I have my theory that classes won't be bound to just a single job, ex. CON <job> BLM or WHM. THM would seem best for a BRD. But I haven't put a lot of thought into it.

Job speculation is the worst hobby to invest in FFXIV imo. Gives me a headache. Simply too little official information.

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There was an interview on Famitsu (i think... not sure) where Yoshi said the first jobs are gonna be Paladin, Monk, Dragoon, Warrior, White Mage, Black Mage and Bard... he didn't say wich class corresponded to each job, but I guess it's quite clear...

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Originally Posted by MyKotoShi

Not trolling on your topic, but I fail to understand how this post came about. I never heard, read anything that would suggest this ARC <job> BRD setup. Could you relay a cite?

But taking from the subject, It's completely incomprehensible how the two could relate. Though I have my theory that classes won't be bound to just a single job, ex. CON <job> BLM or WHM. THM would seem best for a BRD. But I haven't put a lot of thought into it.

Job speculation is the worst hobby to invest in FFXIV imo. Gives me a headache. Simply too little official information.

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Basically Bard was confirmed as a job, people are speculating it will be archer because it fits even less for a Marauder, then again SE could surprise us and release Archanist at the same time they release jobs and it could go there.

I agree that Bard is a strange job to be connected to Archer, but as other's have said, it's speculation. But if it is true, I would be a bit torn. I loved Bard in FFXI, and I would like to see that role in this game. However, I really love archer (changes and all) in this game... It would just depend on how it is done, what changes are made, which is all at this point, pure speculation.

Ah yes Archanist. The class that always slips my mind. But the problem I see is bards wield instruments, there's no relation simply being guided by the armory system or should I scrap the idea because of the weapon? If my memory serves, Bard specializes in buff, debuff, enfeeble solo/aoe capability. Sounds like a relative to THM more than anything. But XI had Bards as pullers, so the idea on that level would trigger the thought of ARC, but still can't see it.

Again though, lol, this whole Job thing has nothing to aid us in our speculations.

Here is what "I" think:

PGL > MNK
GLA > PLD
MRD > WAR
ARC > ???
LNC > DRG
CON > WHM/BLM
THM > BRD

And why not:
ARC > RNG/SAM/THF

SAM might be pushing it, but XI has shown SAM's have a talent for bows. Speculate, speculate, speculate

CON > WHM/BLM would be amazing, but they already stated that there are gonna be only 1 job per class at first :/ Also I can hardly see new classes implemented before everything is fixed and this includes the job system implementation...

By the way, bard isn't necessary ralated to instrument, Dragon Age's bard uses bow and daggers and in GW the corresponding support job is Paragon, wich is using javelins.

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Originally Posted by Alcide

By the way, bard isn't necessary ralated to instrument, Dragon Age's bard uses bow and daggers

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This is definitely true, ARC > BRD makes sense in dungeons and dragons/dragon age/oblivion kind of settings, but it is strange for Final Fantasy's pure-party support "Bard"

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Originally Posted by MyKotoShi

Ah yes Archanist. The class that always slips my mind. But the problem I see is bards wield instruments, there's no relation simply being guided by the armory system or should I scrap the idea because of the weapon? If my memory serves, Bard specializes in buff, debuff, enfeeble solo/aoe capability. Sounds like a relative to THM more than anything. But XI had Bards as pullers, so the idea on that level would trigger the thought of ARC, but still can't see it.

Again though, lol, this whole Job thing has nothing to aid us in our speculations.

Here is what "I" think:

PGL > MNK
GLA > PLD
MRD > WAR
ARC > ???
LNC > DRG
CON > WHM/BLM
THM > BRD

And why not:
ARC > RNG/SAM/THF

SAM might be pushing it, but XI has shown SAM's have a talent for bows. Speculate, speculate, speculate

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he did say in the 4gamer interview that it'll be one job per class at the start. so WHM/BLM won't both be on CON when they hit.

still to early to tell until they release the rest of job announcments, one thing is for sure they already stated only 1 job would be available per class, so that effectively kills the CON = WHM/BLM idea unfortunatly.

As for bard and musical instruments, there has been other MMOs that Bards used bows in so really depends on how SE wants Bard to be this time around.

Don't forget about the bard in story quests. He has a dagger/throwing knives, reminiscent to GLA! :P ...or thief/ninja ... SE can do anything they want really. Though I'd rather THM got bard >.< I don't wanna be a black mage again lol.

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Originally Posted by Alcide

but what's the point in turning the most powerful DD class into a support Job?

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This might be the reason for archer to become Bard.
Archer right now does insane amounts of DPS while staying away from dangerous AoE, wich has led into the GLA/CON/CON/ARC/ARC/ARC/ARC/ARC partys for dungeons.
Why should the archer be able to do this? Why can they stay safe while outdamaging all other DPS?

The answer is: They wont anymore.

Archers will have to attack while also keeping up songs or whatever they do as bards. This will lower their DPS and posibly enhance the other party members DPS making them balanced with all the other DD in the game.

I've been playing archer lately and i found that my positioing makes it extremely easy to target my pt members and heal them in case of emergency. The position of the archer is highly suited for the role of a bard wich will most likely enhance party members with songs in the middle of the battle while shooting arrows.

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Originally Posted by Ashgarth

This might be the reason for archer to become Bard.
Archer right now does insane amounts of DPS while staying away from dangerous AoE, wich has led into the GLA/CON/CON/ARC/ARC/ARC/ARC/ARC partys for dungeons.
Why should the archer be able to do this? Why can they stay safe while outdamaging all other DPS?

The answer is: They wont anymore.

Archers will have to attack while also keeping up songs or whatever they do as bards. This will lower their DPS and posibly enhance the other party members DPS making them balanced with all the other DD in the game.

I've been playing archer lately and i found that my positioing makes it extremely easy to target my pt members and heal them in case of emergency. The position of the archer is highly suited for the role of a bard wich will most likely enhance party members with songs in the middle of the battle while shooting arrows.

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Remember jobs are optional and one can forgo the option of placing the title on him/herself. Think of them as titles that grant/prevent certain abilities/traits/stats. This would in no way deter the dps of an ARC unless they chose to be a Bard. Archers won't have to balance attacking with buffing, Bards will. You could still run as GLA/CONx2/ARCx5 if you wished.

I don't know about other Archers, but we have a decent MP pool and most max-level equipment offers a little MP+ if you're willing to wear some of it. I spend as much time shooting as I do using utility spells like healing, Siphon TP, even Sleep if needed. It has the capacity to be a supporter. Lancer is also in the same boat, having decent MP for being a melee. If you're super-hardcore, you can even push into high PIE tiers to use a (albeit gimped by not being a main-class affinity) DOT if nobody else is on deck.

And I don't know where people are getting the idea that Bloodletter is affected by PIE in any way. I do have a (baseless) theory that Foeseeker might have a PIE mod though. "Have faith in thy aim" and whatnot.

In dragon age, Leliana was a bard and she equipped a bow. Maybe that's where that whole thing is coming from.

I personally think Bard should come from a Minstrel class. Weapons are instruments.

Minstrel can open doors for Bard, Dancer, Mime.

Archer might go Ranger, Machinist, Hunter, Sniper, Sky Pirate.

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Originally Posted by Alcide

There was an interview on Famitsu (i think... not sure) where Yoshi said the first jobs are gonna be Paladin, Monk, Dragoon, Warrior, White Mage, Black Mage and Bard... he didn't say wich class corresponded to each job, but I guess it's quite clear...

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This is true except warrior was never confirmed,which leads to more speculation.Bard does make more sense for Arc then Mar though.Im not sure what job Mar will get maybe War but Im hoping Drk^^

http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?foru...260405082&h=50

The warrior job was news to me... I had completely forgot about archer and I was trying to figure out if marauder would maybe be paladin and gla be bard to mirror thancred.

Honestly, the job list from the interview (paired with the non-official translation) leaves alot to ambiguity. Speculating at this point is probably going to be way off the mark, since we have alot of square pegs with round holes... not to mention not enough holes for all the pegs to begin with.

Actually, I was just playing Final Fantasy V again and it dawned on me that you get the Hunter and Bard jobs at the same time (no others come with them). Maybe this is their way of tying the game into the series even more? I'll be much less surprised should they give ARC the BRD job now.

I see Archers having the same damage capabilities as they do now. Maybe with more versatility.

Job-wise after this last patch IMO Bard is the perfect fit for Archer. The short-range melees will keep their role as the primary DPS while Bard takes a more supporting damage-type role.

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Originally Posted by MartaDemireux

Actually, I was just playing Final Fantasy V again and it dawned on me that you get the Hunter and Bard jobs at the same time (no others come with them). Maybe this is their way of tying the game into the series even more? I'll be much less surprised should they give ARC the BRD job now.

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were you doing the ffv for futures thing also? :P

It makes sense for Archer to get Bard. Again, they want you to have the ability to solo or play in a group. A plain old Bard (think ffxi for a moment) is a tasty treat to most mobs, but and Archer/Bard would be a force to be reckoned with.

Also, as others have pointed out, the Uldah Storyline Bard is no wuss, and I doubt they intend the class to just be a backline job. Lastly, archers DO stand in the perfect 'Party Buffer' position. An archer can buff both the mages AND the DD's without running back and forth too much (Again, think ffxi and bards trying to keep magic buffs on mages and damage buffs on DDs without over-crossing them).

Only things that matter, and would make sense would be...

PUG ---> THF
MSK ---> COR ;O

Nobody else matters, because I'm better than you all.

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Originally Posted by mmk

were you doing the ffv for futures thing also? :P

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No idea what that is o.O?

Edit: I was fiddling with the GBA re-released version if that's what you're asking. /confused lol

The PIE on almost all the new bows threw me off as well.

I kinda looked at it as melee have 3 stats to build. STR/VIT/DEX. And mages had 3. PIE/MND/INT(aware lots of mages build VIT too). I am already having enough problems as it is on Archer with determining which stats to raise when considering some stats barely do anything at all(hello dex!). Throwing PIE into the mix just hurts my brain even more. I would bet a lot of us, me included, have only base PIE, so 13 or something. Don't think none of us ARC where aware we were suppose to be building up our PIE stat as well lol.

Maybe I have just been brainwashed though in thinking Archer should be str/dex builds and mods. Something is definitely up though if they are putting PIE on almost all the bows now though. Maybe it effects Bloodletter DoT? Maybe our damage mods on weapon skills are dex/pie, like how DRK in XI was str/int?

idk... :)

There is no reason to discuss archers future

we already know what it is

they will put an arrow into the bow, and shoot it

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alcide

NB: this has nothing to do with Archer's nerf, AA or whatever.

I was looking at the new weapons and noticed that almost all of the bows have Piety attributes. It seemed quite odd to me, but then i thought that it might have something to do with the upcoming job system (Archer's job is supposed to be Bard).

But I still think it's an odd decision... Considering what we know so far, jobs are gonna be for parties and are gonna be some kind of "specialization" of each class, so there shouldn't be any reason why you might want your a Conjurer not to be WHM or your Gladiator not to be PLD... but what's the point in turning the most powerful DD class into a support Job? o.O I mean, once it becomes Bard it can't be that powerful (judging from those bows, Bard is gonna be piety based, so in order to be effective in that class you have to take away some points from STR and DEX) so unlike the other jobs, that are gonna enhance what the class is already doing, Bard is gonna be totally different from Archer.
My point is, if when the job system is implemented Archer is gonna be Bard, are we gonna be willing to give up on the DPS and get a support Job? Or will we still want a simple Archer?

Honestly I thought Lancer was fitting much better to become Bard (and now all of the former dragoons are gonna kill me ; ; ) since it's slightly less effective as DD than Archer, but already has some buffing skills for the whole party (Surges and Comrade in Arms). I've got th feeling that it was supposed to be a DD/support class at the beginning, but the idea got scrapped by the new team because... well Lancer has to be Draoon, it can't be helped :D

Obviously these are all speculations since we still know nothing about the job system, but i'd like to know what you guys think about it.

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Archer and bard could work... cant say it will give me any memories of FF though. Dragoon has played the dd/support role before specifically IX and XI albeit in XI players largely ignored the support side in favour of the dd side. Before that either Jump was their only skill or the whole dragoon thing was played down completely because all the characters were a mesh of the same abilities/magic etc. So no i dont think bard would have been a better fit for lancer and i wouldnt be surprised if dragoon is again a dd/support job.

Archer running around having to stop dps all the time to buff people, due to not being in Range? I am sure it will thin the Archer community, unless of course it would not work that way, just thinking of the FFXI bard.

Archer > Ranger would make more sense to me, but they didn't call the Ranger Job.

Was just thinking and found another plausible case for Archer to get the Bard job. In FFIV the White Mage, Rosa, used a bow primarily. That game sort of defied the FF-logic with that move. So with that, why can't it work in the opposite way with a bow class getting de/buffs? Just hope Ballad makes a return haha.