Working EXP into endgame

I had this idea while farming up Atma: Is there some what SE could develop a system to use post 50 (or post cap) exp as a currency system of some sort? Let me try to elaborate.

In FFXI we had the Merit system. This clunky system served to have us as the player kill time gaining xp in order to increase our battle stats, like healing and/or sword skill. The subtlety of this system is that it gave players something to do after they reached cap that wasn't too different from what they had already been doing for the majority of their journey to 50: EXPing.

Now in the scope of FFXIV (which is a completely different game, I'll agree), I think that we could benefit from a system that turned its eye on something that translates from FFXI's stat value to FFXIV's battle effectiveness: gear.

Now i'm not calling for a revamping of the atma system. I think aside from some tweaks, it is fine how it is. But to illustrate my point, I would like to use the atma quest as an example. Lets use the portion where you have to start. Collecting the 12 Atma stones.

Current system: 1 stone from fates under the veil of RNG.

Purposed system: 1 stone costs 600k (although that seems kinda low, maybe 800k) EXP that you accrue and then trade into an NPC once you reach that amount.

Reason: Basically, How many FATEs and how much exp would I have gotten from the FATEs I did to get the atma anyway? Can't I just pool that exp, while feeling like I am making progress and use it for the Open-world Content?

Current System: Fight Leviathan for a chance to see the mirror drop and then loot for it.

Proposed system: A Leviathan Mirror costs 1Mil EXP to purchase but you have to get the weapon from the fight itself.

Reasoning: This would support farm parties. Without putting the bulk of the stress on mirror drops and who claims it/gets to roll on it, as well as encouraging players to do the fight, but also to do other, older content and still make progress.

Caveat: A player would need to unlock and down the content that they would be able to purchase rewards for. Example, A fresh level 50 would not be able to purchase a Leviathan Mirror before first doing the quest to unlock the fight and defeating the Lord of the Whorl.

The benefits of this could be that people can choose how they want to collect EXP. Be that in FATEs, Big Boss Fights, Roulette, Maps, etc. While making this available to every player on the basis of "they can reach it eventually". This Opens the entirety of the Dungeons and content to all players instead of funneling it into specific dungeons like Hard Modes and such. Under our current system, the number one question asked after players run a new dungeon is "Can this be speed-ran for tomes efficiently". This limits the content and it develops a mentality of speed running among the player base. If EXP can be turned into endgame usable currency then Time is less of a factor in the average dungeon run, and basic kill and progress becomes more of the focus.

Will some reach this goal faster? Absolutely. But this could alleviate the jarring nature of EXP grinding to 50 only to shift the focus abruptly to statics and boss fights. A player might not get as pissed at the slow nature of a dungeon run if he/she is getting experience towards their goal as opposed to just looking to end the run to get their myths. Speed runs would still be a thing, but now the trash mobs are somewhat viable. My point is to transition the efforts we put into leveling our characters into the things we do at endgame. Currently the flow of play is to exp as efficiently as possible, then farm myths as efficiently as possible; similar in theory, but myths come from a percentage of the entire developed content. Well that and people hate to feel forced to do FATEs. If the option to do FATEs comes from the player then the salt on the wound might not sting as much.

I used atma as an example because, arguably, atma farming is one of the most laid back things in the game currently. Because of this I get the sense that SE wants everyone to do atma eventually. So why not put to use something that we all do anyway.

And this doesn't have to apply just to Atma. Could be applied to sets of armor. But this could be a system to avoid the phasing out of other tokens, like what we saw with Philosophy stones.

Now this isn't without flaws. Because it doesn't have a soft weekly cap like Sol. Tokens that means people farm like its Harvest Moon if they wish, so this might not apply to all bits of endgame content.

And for simplicity sake, we could just call this a Bonus Level System, where an Elemental Horse Mount could cost 1 bonus level (or 532000 EXP @ 50) where an Atma stone costs 2 Bonus Levels (much more exp than I proposed above, sorry I rounded up to make it a whole number).

IF Community Relations team members read this: I am not calling for a change to ATMA, rather I'm tossing out ideas for future content. If the Development Team decide to use FATE's and/or Tome collecting from specific dungeons again.

I look forward to comments.

Further more, theres lots of things that give XP as an award that can only be accessed at lvl 50, when you (currently) no longer need xp. Just feels wasted

Yes cause the one thing we need is.....more tokens.

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Originally Posted by Xairos

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Perhaps an item like 5% exp bonus scroll purchased using exp that is gained from a lv 50 class. Helps to level other classes ^^

It's not so much a token system as in "lets speed run Brayflox for those sweet myth" but rather a token system as "X costs Y amount of accrued exp".

You can get the exp however you wish.

They aren't likely to do anything with an impending cap increase. XI got merits because the Devs weren't planning to increase cap for a long time, if ever.

I can't say for sure how good or bad this would be for the game in practice, but I can say that for me personally, seeing the 'exp' I gain post 50 having some practical use would do wonders for my virtual quality of life.

So much complaining about Atmas. I say without knowing what the final product is going to be, trying to make progress on it easier is too early. If it happens to become anything like XI relics theirs no way anything will become easier and later steps will be just harder or more grinding then it already is through novus.

But, I do like the idea about having different purposes for exp just not atma or in that regard anything quest related

And in regards to my "complaing about atmas" That was just directed for the fact it was brought up as an example. With how many threads are on about atmas already giving it as an example was a poor choice just because this thread could very well lose focus and turn into another thread of RNG.

I would love to see a similar merit system in ff14. That's what kept me playing longer was that you still accrued xp even after cap.

On the note of wasted EXP after level 50, the easiest thing I could see them doing (which I'm surprised was never implemented in the first place) would be to have all that EXP get pooled in to your rested bonus for use on other classes you have not yet leveled, no?

I'd like to see a Merit system used to further differentiate Jobs from the same Class. Not much of an issue seeing as we only have Summoner and Scholar at the moment, but they're all meant to get second Jobs eventually. You'd just earn Merits on a Job, and use them to alter Class skills to boost that Job.

Scholar, for example, could change Virus to a buff which prevents one negative status effect taking hold. While Summoner could turn Physkic into another offensive spell. Bard could turn a few Archer skills into Songs or a way to recover MP to keep songs up longer (give Bloodletter "Restores MP" effect would be great), while Ranger (if it comes off Archer) could turn Swiftsong into a DPS skill.

It would somewhat fix the whole "If they add second Jobs, I have 50 whatever by default" issue. Yeah you'd already have 50 Ranger, but you'd still need to grind on Ranger to fully unlock everything.

The FFXI merit system was excellent. It was a timesink that didn't feel like one because you were making tangible progress with foreseeable goals that don't rely on RNG, ie. "If I gain 100k XP, I know I can increase a stat of my choosing PERMANENTLY by 1". Not only does it reward "hardcore" players for their efforts without overpowering them (you would set a cap for each stat of course), but helps reduce the complaints stemming from skipping mobs in speed runs, as well as atma/alex farming. This brings new light to SE's idea of keeping veteran players involved in old content to help out the new players (without pissing anyone off).

This should be easy to implement as well, just take a look at the upgrade system for Atma>Animus weapons, as well as the "Bonus Attributes" in the "Profile" tab for your character and the rest practically writes itself.

I like the OP's idea also, I just think more tokens and such are unnecessary.

I would love a Merit Point system, even if it was something simple and along the lines of the PvP Skill/AP system we already have.

They have said a while back that something like a merit point system isn't in their plans for now. They want to keep the game accessible to new players, and they said that if they let your character gain power beyond the level cap and gear, then it would seem like a daunting challenge for a new player to ever get up to the level of older players. So basically they are trying not to make the current players happy, but the people that aren't even playing yet. I would like to see this change, but I guess we can only wait and hope.

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Originally Posted by Mcshiggs

They have said a while back that something like a merit point system isn't in their plans for now. They want to keep the game accessible to new players, and they said that if they let your character gain power beyond the level cap and gear, then it would seem like a daunting challenge for a new player to ever get up to the level of older players. So basically they are trying not to make the current players happy, but the people that aren't even playing yet. I would like to see this change, but I guess we can only wait and hope.

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Depends on how they implement the system. Rift's PA system or even EQPC's AA system, yes, that would leave the newer players behind a bit in comparison to someone who had lots of points spent. I think XI did pretty well where, yeah, you wouldn't be as good as the one next to you with capped merits, but you wouldn't be worthless either and it honestly didn't take that long to get what was "needed" to get you on par with them if you were prevented from joining an LS because you didn't have max Double Attack merits or the like. Rift and EQ could take a much longer time to catch up to someone who is maxed even with XP potions. But then again, XI doesn't have a "you can upgrade everything" system.

It could just convert to myth.
Problem solved.

2,000 exp = 1 myth.

Something like that.

I too find wasted EXP irritable I wouldn't mind a system where if you gain EXP on any class that is 50 to be pooled into a system that would unlock emotes, pets, mounts, hairstyles etc (non game breaking fun little additions)
Requiring perhaps 50x the amount of EXP required for the normal amount for that said level

seeing so much wasted EXP fly out the window :(

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Originally Posted by Bushido_Brown

On the note of wasted EXP after level 50, the easiest thing I could see them doing (which I'm surprised was never implemented in the first place) would be to have all that EXP get pooled in to your rested bonus for use on other classes you have not yet leveled, no?

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Yes. I'd rather see this now. But what happens when you have all classes/jobs at 50?

I'd be for a bonus point system following level cap, but preferably in a manner that doesn't trivialize other aspects of the game that are found in level 50 content. Stat boosts might be a little much, items to fulfill otherwise hated tasks would certainly be too much, etc. I'd rather it be along the lines of aesthetics or vanity in general. Perhaps titles, access to certain color options, visual changes to abilities/spells, achievements, "fun" items, etc. Perhaps even gaining access to changes pertaining to your audible options (e.g. ability to change themes) or character model itself (e.g. 2D-ish remodeling of minions or the player, similar to the minion of light).

I'd suspect the visual change to abilities/spells would be a very attractive task for people to under take. I'm gonna point out a WoW example, with Warlocks wanting green flames since launch over 10yrs ago. They didn't get it until somewhat recently, and it was through a very difficult solo questline. It provided the player nothing but an aesthetic change (and a difficult challenge), yet it was very much wanted by the player base. There was a ton of QQ about how hard it was, but that's kinda the point of it all... if you want this unimportant thing, that affects absolutely nothing but your looks, you're gonna have to work for it.

Heck, even if it just went into allowing people to gain items that further bonuses to exp on other combat jobs that aren't capped would be nice. Nothing too major I guess, but yeah. Things that don't affect your endgame progression would probably be the least impacting and accepted.

or you can convert all exp you gain at 50 (excluding challenge log, duties, and reward exp) and add it to to what your chocobo already gets.

I would say make some way to grow materia at 50 while not having to swap in gear that may have lower stats than what your already wearing.

Getting EXP as a level 50, Should go to Rested EXP pools. If you aren't capped Rested EXP.

My thoughts were to make the exp count towards the casual side (And the casual-hardcore bridge) of the game in the form of currency towards things like base-level gear (think "weathered"), maybe maybe mounts or minions (but not sure), and absolute put behind some rare drops with a high cost.

Like (just making a guess) have Leviathans Mirror be exp purchasable with the weapons only dropping from the fight. FFXIV isnt so skill value loose that currently a FFXI-style merit system could work. Yoshi said (i believe at E3) that ability-based buffs would be eased into since SE fears that certain options would become standards and then needed to be taken by everyone.

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Originally Posted by Tashigi

It could just convert to myth.
Problem solved.

2,000 exp = 1 myth.

Something like that.

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Even converting EXP to myth's would be great as it would free up players to feel like they could help out their new-player friends by doing Dzamal Darkhold runs (or any dungeon or fight) and the veteran player would get something out of it as well. As the below person noted, it would need to be higher.

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Originally Posted by Tashigi

It could just convert to myth.
Problem solved.

2,000 exp = 1 myth.

Something like that.

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For something like Myth tomes, 2000 is actually very low. I can solo Haukke Manor norm, and yield over 2400 exp per mob killed. Obviously this is lessened when in a group, but the exp yields are significantly higher for higher level dungeons. Exp per mob kill does vary depending on the level of the dungeon. It'd honestly have to be along the lines of 50-100k exp per 1 Myth, when you put into account how long it takes to clear a typical dungeon (Brayflox HM is not an example of a typical dungeon) and get rewarded a bit of Myth.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

For something like Myth tomes, 2000 is actually very low. I can solo Haukke Manor norm, and yield over 2400 exp per mob killed. Obviously this is lessened when in a group, but the exp yields are significantly higher for higher level dungeons. Exp per mob kill does vary depending on the level of the dungeon. It'd honestly have to be along the lines of 50-100k exp per 1 Myth, when you put into account how long it takes to clear a typical dungeon (Brayflox HM is not an example of a typical dungeon) and get rewarded a bit of Myth.

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That----! Is...actually a pretty good idea. It'd even give a good incentive to helping people out with lower level dungeons consistently.

Exactly Ramzal! I would love to open the game up so that new players in your LS or FC who may be interested in leveling can be helped by the veteran players without a feeling of needing to be rushed or sped through. While the veteran player gets something valuable out of it as well.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

For something like Myth tomes, 2000 is actually very low. I can solo Haukke Manor norm, and yield over 2400 exp per mob killed. Obviously this is lessened when in a group, but the exp yields are significantly higher for higher level dungeons. Exp per mob kill does vary depending on the level of the dungeon. It'd honestly have to be along the lines of 50-100k exp per 1 Myth, when you put into account how long it takes to clear a typical dungeon (Brayflox HM is not an example of a typical dungeon) and get rewarded a bit of Myth.

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That was just an example, can be any amount they deem "balanced".

I've been wanting some sort of post-level cap exp system ever since the beginning of ARR, and I'm surprised they didn't do this sooner, because other games like GW2 and PSO2 have something similar to this.

You have all of these Legacy players from 1.0 who have all, if not most, of their classes/jobs leveled up to 50 (besides ACN/SMN/SCH, of course, since they're new), and then you also have some people who simply don't want to level up certain jobs, for whatever reason. The game throws exp at us left and right, but for those of us who have everything capped, we can't utilize it for anything, so it'd be nice to have some sort of "meriting" or currency system involved so we could customize our characters' abilities in battle to our liking, or perhaps exchange a certain amount of exp or additional "levels" for something else. It would give Lv50 players something else to do besides "oh, I better run Brayflox 50 million more times for that Myth," or "I hope that one item drops in Coil this week," it would also make Levequests a lot more useful, and it would also reward the player for more time spent in the game doing what they want.

Honestly Id just like to see excess Exp converted to GC Seals or more Gil. Doing quests at level 50 that have Exp Rewards ( Beast Tribe/Level 45-50 Leves ) seems a waste. Why not have that useless Exp be converted to something we can use at level 50?

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Originally Posted by Lithera

They aren't likely to do anything with an impending cap increase. XI got merits because the Devs weren't planning to increase cap for a long time, if ever.

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Maybe they could at least let the exp accrue on your character (similar to Soul Memory in Dark Souls 2) so that when they do raise cap all that exp goes towards the new levels of the job it was obtained on?