Total Brayflox HM fail last night

This is a little off topic but still dealing with the Speed Runs done in Brayflox. Typically I love a good speed run, quite a lot. I main BLM but to grind sol I queue up as SCH. I'm only i90 but typically I don't ever have a problem keeping up (except I'm PLD spoiled so sometimes in the first pull if its a WAR I have to spam heal for a second before I readjust). But, oddly, yesterday I only did one successful run. The other few I did the tanks, who were all geared higher (maybe i93-ish and up) were taking damage like CRAZY. And this is with the constant application of Stone Skin and Adlo inbetween pulls.

I mean, I don't know if I was just unlucky and these few tanks all decided not to drop CDs or something but for once I couldn't keep up. Usually I can mitigate damage, rouse Eos, pop a Sacred Soil and then help DPS (or Shadow Flare depending on mob damage output). Last night though? .....I had to spam Physick and barely had time to try and pop an Adlo-Lustrate. It was very frustrating.

Any ideas what could have been going on? Was it me? I kind of have this inferiority complex with healing cause I dont' want to let people down ._.

Happens when Tanks don't use CDs and don't dodge the AOEs. Then it is clearly their fault.

rather be healing an i80 who pops cds when needed compared to i100 whos too lazy

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Originally Posted by Aurelle_Delacroix

Any ideas what could have been going on? Was it me? I kind of have this inferiority complex with healing cause I dont' want to let people down ._.

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I get this a lot as a White mage or sch. They don't wait for a stoneskin or any buffing, then they run..and run...and run..their HP goes down, they're at near 50% by the time they won't..stop running and finally when the horde gets to them..they drop down in HP. They don't use a single cool down or dodge a single ability then I can't keep up sometimes (if i'm SCH with 3 stacks and have my ability reset I can push out 6 Lustrate and helps with the issue) then when they die? "Lol heals can't keep up"

I've done runs before with PLDs who decided that they would use Cover on the BLM as soon as they stopped running, at which point the BLM decided to just take hits and I watched helplessly and dumbfounded as the PLD completely melted in less than 2 seconds. It wasn't until the second time the PLD did this (and wiped us) that I actually noticed what he was doing. Thankfully he stopped it when I asked him to. Some tanks just need advice on how to SR if they haven't done it much, or at all.

This happens to me every time. It is why I hate getting brayflox in roulettes. I don't mind doing a SR with my FC but I hate doing them with random people. I'm well geared (i99 WHM i98 SCH) and I've done SRs with both but more often than not the tank will run off without buffs and then die cause they aren't using anything and then complain and either bitch out at me or just ragequit.

This is why SE should make a SR option. would be nice ^^

But yeah, if a tank doesn't use his Cooldowns.. it's like a healer that doesn't cure..

Don't forget to esuna/leech the superfun paralysis, it helps a lot with our mobility (I check and if not, I will use a spine drop on myself)

I use cover all the time in there, saves BLM or Melee when lagging and when 1st boss bombs blow up. I am working with the healer, popping CDs around, moving to get the adds on me as well.

Works ok I guess.

No matter what class you play, you can ask and talk about something that you are not sure. Then you should get an answer (hopefully)

As other stated, it could be the tank is semi-afk, don't care and rush Leeroy-style, well, I let them die in that case when I'm healer. You want to rush but you don't use your brain? There, 5 mins wasted.

You opt out? fine with me, I'll ask a FC mate to tank for us.

I won't pull all 10 first if I'm linked with one Melee.

So far I didn't get any complaints.

I am not looking to get it done in 5 min, only to get it done (and that dang OPO!!!!! grrrr)

OP - I guess if you did all that you could with your abilities and skills on your hotbar - you were doing fine ^^

@HaelseMikiro: The tank was doing fine with cover: Not bec you have 'protection' means you are a tank lol - the covered person still has to do everything they can to dodge.. (and if not, we need to use our 5 min long CD HG.. sigh)

This isn't your fault. Same thing happens to me. I'm i99 white mage and scholar and some tanks it's normal to keep them alive, others drop dead before a heal goes off.

It's pretty much because they aren't using their defensive cool downs and/or trying to dodge. Luckily I have some awesome tanks on my friend list to help avoid this problem.

It seems you were just really unlucky. I have had the same thing happen to me a few times where the tank even in il100 gear goes down too quickly. It's even worse when the tank just runs off not even waiting for buffs.

Like Abyss said, they want speed runs but they don't use their brains to do what needs to be done to get speed runs actually accomplished.

Also usually do fine in speed runs, but had this problem this Monday where I kept getting Brayflox in the roulette and tanks kept going down like wet tissue paper on the pulls.

Like others have said, the tanks in question probably aren't making an earnest effort to dodge aoes and use cooldowns.

I'm not a fan of speedrunning, but I taught myself how to do it since it is so widespread. I just get annoyed when people think I did something wrong when a tank literally disintegrates in the blink of an eye. It's similar to the problem of weaker dps on a speed run, resulting in the packs taking forever to wear down. People need to understand that it's okay to cut pulls a bit and slow down when you're just going to end up annoying the heck out of your healer in DF.

It's mainly that first part of the dungeon I don't like. After that, it usually gets a lot smoother.

Yeah the dps not killing the enemies in a timely manner can certainly result in wipes.

I had a black mage one time in a speed run, which was set up in PF as a speed run, who was not using Flare AT ALL. Just a Fire 3, Fire 2 and then Bliz 3 rotation.

Yes, it's very simple.. tanks are not very good at avoiding enemies attack.. and don't use any defensive skills.
I know this because I ran Brayflox over 200 times. Even as a white mage, I have to use "precious" benediction and hope for divine seal cd.
It's just bad sometimes, it doesn't matter how geared the tank is, it's about their skills. You can't also communicate with geared players, because their excuse would be "hey, you see my gear? I'm good". That... That's why we need good guild or friends. It's risky using duty finder.
Stay safe, live longer.

Wow! Thank you all for you're responses! Yeah, I did what I could in there and admittedly, towards the end I did panic a bit but at that point I really couldn't do anything. Got to the point where I was the one who left and dealt with the 30 minute lock out, tried again, and then had to do the same thing. I know I didn't HAVE to but considering it never happened to me before I sort of felt like I was the problem. Eh...what's one week without capping sol right? >_>

But yeah, over all it did seem like the tanks weren't popping CDs cause all of the tanks in my FC do not die that quick and their lower ilvl and have lower gear than the tanks I had. I mean, gear can only get you so far. You still have to play to win not just lulz your way through stuff. Thanks for the words though everyone, I'll probably go back into bray tonight as SCH now with the weekly reset and keep my cool a bit better and just trek it out even if the tank ragequits on me.

There are two huge issues with these tanks that are not using their cool downs and/or trying to dodge/kite some of the attacks.

Number one, it is simply lazy on the tanks part while making the healer very stressed out.

Number two (and the biggest reason), is ultimately, if you wipe, that defeats the entire purpose of a speed run in the first place.

Just to give you an idea... this is the way how all tanks should tank.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aRnkWpx8F3c

Brayflox HM: without a healer. (Japanese).

Dont feel bad, im i99 sch and when tanks decided that they dont want to use cd and they dont avoid aoe, i have a bad time there, spam adlo, not physick, and use eye for an eye, even virus on one of the mobs

I'm an i91 WHM and can heal SRs of Brayflox with my FC just fine (including doing Holy rotations for additional DPS), but if I hit roulette? Generally it's a nightmare attempting to keep up.

99% of the time I run into tanks who won't pop cds and just eat AoEs on the trash pulls, then I get yelled at for either not being able to keep up with heals, or for not using Holy. It's like "Dude, I was busy attempting to keep you alive, I didn't have time to drop into Cleric Stance and start spamming away at Holy."

I'd much rather attempt a speedrun of Brayflox with a lower iLvl tank that actually knows to use their cooldowns than to run it with someone in i100 gear who thinks they can build hate then walk off for a snack until the mob is dead.

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Originally Posted by ColorOfSakura

I'm an i91 WHM and can heal SRs of Brayflox with my FC just fine (including doing Holy rotations for additional DPS), but if I hit roulette? Generally it's a nightmare attempting to keep up.

99% of the time I run into tanks who won't pop cds and just eat AoEs on the trash pulls, then I get yelled at for either not being able to keep up with heals, or for not using Holy. It's like "Dude, I was busy attempting to keep you alive, I didn't have time to drop into Cleric Stance and start spamming away at Holy."

I'd much rather attempt a speedrun of Brayflox with a lower iLvl tank that actually knows to use their cooldowns than to run it with someone in i100 gear who thinks they can build hate then walk off for a snack until the mob is dead.

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^ This. Lower ilvl tanks actually use their heads. Higher usually are too smug or too overconfident to do so.

Since this thread I've done more Brayflox runs (need to cap that sol!) and thankfully haven't had much of a problem. I must have been unlucky or something that day. However I have noticed, like what has already been said, that lower ilvl tanks use their heads more and actually pop CDs, dodge AoEs, or at least communicate with the party about different things.

Is it just me or is it extremely satisfying when you can drop a Shadow Flare, Bane your poisons all around, apply Miasma II, and even throw some Aero's around before really having to switch stance and drop an Adlo-Physick (Embrace depending) and all is still fine? Mmm, love those smooth runs.

When using a WHM, if dps is good generally I don't even need to heal on pulls anymore, just bosses. bray speedruns are group efforts, and it can only succeed with the right mindset and teamwork. If one side is rather weak, then another must step up and adjust. EG, low tank.. heal more, low tank.. dodge aoe (as the tank) low dps heal more, etc.

Hi, now a tank point of view. I personally prefer to divide the first pull in two, usually it goes fine. Even then if people are low geared you may have problems. I have died there in a small pull because "I didn't use hallowed ground", when I nearly never die there and don't use hallowed ground in a small pull normally.

If the party asks for only one pull, I do one pull, up the ramp to the right where there are no bombs. I use cooldowns one after the other, starting with hallowed ground, then sentinel, etc. and hope for the best. I worry more about keeping hate (circle of scorn, flash all the mp then recover mp and flash, maybe attack a mob that loses hate) than avoiding AoE, but I try to avoid if I can. Things happen very fast when you have a lot of mobs on top of you. I have had some successes in DF. Other times, in PF with people that want Speed Runs, we wipe. Everything has to go well, the healer be on top of everything and the mobs have to die fast. If mobs don't die fast enough, the tank and the healer can't do much.

The rest of pulls are usually easier, it's the first big pull the one who gives problems, at least for me.

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Originally Posted by JonBigwood

The rest of pulls are usually easier, it's the first big pull the one who gives problems, at least for me.

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I find the pull after the first boss to worse from a healers perspective since they can all choose to attack the same random person which can "one-shot" them before I can do anything.