It's going to be a no-brainer that Rogue/Ninja is going to be slashing based damage. You could lob them with the piercing damage group but curved shortswords/ninjato is their promo weapon at the moment.
Though, right now unlike other DPS, their slash resist down debuff is relegated to a tank, whom may prioritize (despite having an amazing hate rushdown) their mitigation combo over maximizing DPS, since obviously survival is their first priority.
So... do you guys think we'll see a change in storm's eye because of this? Will we be stripped of the slash down (if ROG/NIN become part of the slash damage group) and be given something else?
After all, they did this with BRD's 'rain of death' damage down debuff and handed it to MRD/WAR. So it kinda raises a slight concern.
That's kinda what I'm trying to get at though. Unless they have their own slash resist down that stacks with ours (which would be OPish I'd think) their extra DPS is on a role that isn't focused on damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskeybravo
There are also times where a WAR might be tanking a separate add/part like leviathan where melee can't touch. In this case, yeah he can go to that melee friendly add/part and throw down a storms eye (I do this to give better hate generation for the PLD.. but only at the start) but that's a lot of down-contact time going between the two things.
Ninja: "So.. about that Storm's Eye?"
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06-13-2014, 07:01 AMNaytoNinja: "So.. about that Storm's Eye?"
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06-13-2014, 07:04 AMwhiskeybravo
Don't really see why they would. Dragoon buffs both their own and a bard's damage. I can't really think of any reason keeping Storm's Eye as is would unbalance things.
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06-13-2014, 07:24 AMShinkyo
I see it as a good thing since it'll encourage WAR to use SE more often.
While it won't be up 100% of the time, it'll give good boost to the party's overall DPS.
Will WAR/PLD and 4 NIN be the new party setup :D? -
06-13-2014, 08:09 AMKojikenseiHonestly, 1 WAR 6 NIN 1 SCH is going to be freaking epic for some fights. "Titan EX in 0:45!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinkyo
Edit: Titan will die before add phase lol. -
06-13-2014, 12:39 PMMarxamYou'll also see 6 ninjas jump on Titan's head and stab him like the wanderer in Shadow of the Colossus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kojikensei
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06-13-2014, 07:57 PMFue
Well if its going to be as big of a difference as piercing debuff is for bards. Might just start doing double warrior for raids, just to keep that debuff up all the time.
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06-15-2014, 07:28 PMCidant
Honestly any war that's not keeping SE near 100% of the time should prob not be playing war so I believe they will just leave SE on war(hopefully).
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06-15-2014, 10:46 PMKillabye
What are your rotations to keep se up? I always get orange if I keep it in rotation too often but if it's that much of a buff I should be using it more I guess
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06-16-2014, 02:16 AMCrossSleet
Yeah....because +20% more dmg from tank is life saver. I wouldnt say that keeping SE is War priority and by any means measure that this particular tank is good or not.
Im not keeping SE...probably will take your words seriously and quit this job. Because of people like you people dont like to play tanks. Get over it dude. I can understand aggro issues but seriously? SE is measure of good war? Maybe we should switch between defeiance on/off to have 10 dps more? Good idea. Go and spread it.
''Honestly any war that's not switching defiance on/off to get near 10 dps more should prob not be playing war'' - best quota ever T_T -
06-16-2014, 11:15 AMCidant
On turn8/9 After opening with anywhere between a 900-1400 BB I never have to worry about threat and the only other time I even use BB is on add pickups, I rotate SP-SE For the rest of the fight and never have to worry about threat.
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06-16-2014, 04:41 PMDeloreanIf applying Storm's Eye was a 20% damage increase, you'd have to be mental not to use it.Quote:
Yeah....because +20% more dmg from tank is life saver.
I think there are more essential skills to master in the role of playing a Warrior than managing to squeeze out an extra 5% damage in a role that doesn't even specialize in damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cidant
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06-17-2014, 12:58 AMSkull_AngelIt should equate to an 11% increase in damage when up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Delorean
Personally, I'm with the guys that push for keeping it up as much as possible; War only brings one utility with it outside of it's tanking abilities, and that's increasing it's damage. When you can execute your main priorities without issue you should be working on utilizing your job's other beneficial traits/actions, warrior's happens to be increasing it's ability to deal damage. Do you sacrifice your main priorities to do so? No, but you should squeeze it in whenever you are realistically able to. You don't have to push the envelope of what your class/job is capable of, but you're doing a disservice to yourself and your party members. -
06-17-2014, 12:59 AMGreyJorildyn
You'd be surprised... as a WAR who is generally overgeared for most content I run outside of coil (dungeons, primals, etc.) I don't even bother with Storm's Path. My rotation is pretty much flat SE > BB x2 constantly. I open with Berserk on the SE combo and go with into our bread and butter. It keeps my damage up and in the future will benefit the ninjas I party with (presumably if their weapons will be slashing based). I spent almost all my time in full DPS gear (ilevel 102 atm) so it helps even more.
A 10% reduction of a mob's slashing resistance results in about an 11.5% increase in damage based on some math I saw back a few months ago. But even if it was as low as 5% damage, it still all adds up. -
06-17-2014, 01:12 AMAlistaireIncoming animation lock deaths like drg gets when jumping. Still.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marxam
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06-17-2014, 10:27 PMRickmanUKHonestly IF rogues/Ninja's get a Debuff for Slashing... It'll Likly be Prior too 50, So Will it help with Lower Level Dungeons? Yes. Will it Stack with the Warrior one? Possibly, Will it be Stronger then the Warrior one? Again Possibly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nayto
I can Imagine that IF a Ninja is in a Party with a Warrior.. the Warrior will likly not NEED too do Storm's Eye. Then Again... We don't know yet. I Can Imagine Ninja's getting a Debuff for Slashing/Their own Damage type though, Or they might just get one that Effects All Damage Types.. Possibly a Poison effect. -
06-17-2014, 10:39 PMaerolol
I use Storm's Eye and Storm's Path like all the time (and have no aggro issues) so I'm quite sure Ninjas would love me :p
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06-18-2014, 07:58 AMHuntington
Why would a WAR never use Storm's Eye anyways? It annoys me when I have a WAR as OT and they only keep up one of the Storm attacks or Fracture. I try to always as the OT keep up all three of those so the MT can, if they are a WAR, use their highest damage combo and enmity combo back to back while getting Maim now and then. It makes their job easier and if they do it for you it works better for everyone.
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06-18-2014, 08:37 AMsubteraneanbird
Fracture is garbage though so please don't demand WARs to keep it up.
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06-18-2014, 11:11 AMHuntingtonThis is news to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by subteraneanbird
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06-18-2014, 12:13 PMAlistaireFracture is garbage for other jobs, that's what you've heard and are regurgitating. 300 potency for WAR, it'd be on par with Inner Beast if it ignored the damage penalty like IB does.Quote:
Originally Posted by subteraneanbird
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06-18-2014, 01:42 PMKitruIt's 300 potency over 30 seconds and is not affiliated with any of the WAR buffs/debuffs, not simply "300 potency". It reduces effective uptime of debuffs by 2.5 seconds, and doesn't generate Wrath. If you ignore debuffs and Wrath stack generation, Fracture amounts to just over a 2% increase in damage. When you factor in reduced uptime on buffs/debuffs as well as the reduction in Wrath stack generation, Fracture actually ends up being a noticeable DPS loss (and significant increase in TP consumption, as well).Quote:
Originally Posted by Alistaire
The only reason for a WAR to use Fracture is for the damage while they are leveling or as a "timer" if they have no other viable method of tracking 30 second intervals (like, you know, a "/echo blahblahblah <wait.30>" macro). At 50, it's a straight up reduction in performance to use it. -
06-18-2014, 08:59 PMJaykos
I don't even have a warrior at lvl 50 but anyway. To me it makes sense that a dps class would get a dps debuff to keep up like dragoon's piercing debuff. Seems a little weird that a tank gets that debuff.
Just my 2 cents. -
06-19-2014, 12:05 AMlyndwyrm
I doubt that Ninja would get an additional slashing debuff, at least that could be kept up most of the time. Reason being, if slashing resistance was cut by 20% instead of 10%, it would be a total of 25% more damage instead of 11% more, which would make that 1 WAR, 6 NIN, 1 SCH/WHM combination incredibly silly, and 2 WAR, 4 NIN, 2 SCH/WHM would still have near, if not, 100% uptime on two targets.
I wouldn't be surprised if Ninja got some magic damage thrown in the mix, with the talk of hand-signs and whatnot, and the split in damage types could at least mitigate any damage loss from not having its own slashing debuff. This may be expecting a lot, but then we could have something kind of new, a class that uses two different main stats. -
06-19-2014, 02:24 AMDeloreanAnd 11% of nothing is still nothing; it is not a tank's job to focus on damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skull_Angel
It's something extra that you can do for your group, but I feel that to call it a disservice not to is quite an exaggeration.
Every game has a diverse mix of players and I think that it is important that the message we send to players is that they learn how to play their class first so that we don't end up with Warriors in our groups that are applying fracture right after tomohawk then complaining about not being able to establish a lead in aggro.
The idea of advanced strategies and being more open to copying them is something that will come naturally after reaching a certain level of player ability.
personally the only time i would use it is coming off an unchained & berserk burstQuote:
The only reason for a WAR to use Fracture is for the damage while they are leveling or as a "timer"
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06-19-2014, 02:59 AMKitruThis would be a legitimate argument if tanks actually provided no DPS. I routinely provide more than 50% of what a DPS would provide (and, oftentimes, if I'm tanking a single while the DPS have to target swap, which occurs in a large number of fights, I'll actually put out the same amount as a DPS). That's not "11% of nothing". That's "11% of 20% of the total raid damage".Quote:
Originally Posted by Delorean
Also, it's been said numerous times: just because damage isn't the #1 priority of a tank doesn't mean that it's not a priority at all. Tanks must first make sure they stay alive (this is everyone's first priority, in fact), secondly get/maintain aggro, thirdly minimize incoming damage, and, finally, maximize damage output.
It should also be mentioned that maximizing damage is not mutually exclusive with any of those previous priorities. In fact, maximizing damage oftentimes ends up being what you need to do to get/maintain aggro (BB spam does a crapload less damage and generates significantly less enmity than SE>BB>BB; SE>BB generates as much enmity as straight up BB spam while doing a crapload more damage).
A tank that does not work to maximize their damage output isn't contributing as much as they can to the success of their group, and, since tank damage is *not* completely ignorable (tank damage should always be ~20% of total DPS, assuming equal gear level and straight up tank/spank) you *are* doing your group a disservice by not maximizing it (or at least working to maximize it). If all you want to do is maintain aggro and reduce incoming damage, you can basically do a single high enmity UBIR rotation (the optimized one) and then throw up Storm's Path every 20 seconds; your damage is going to be crap, but you'll be doing everything that your role "requires" of you. -
06-19-2014, 04:10 AMDeloreanlol calling bad tank dps bad is like saying a dps in the 90th percentile of rankings is badQuote:
Originally Posted by Kitru
it's not even possible to do bad damage as a tank. just keep maim up and you will be within 10% damage of whatever anyone else is doing. -
06-20-2014, 03:23 AMZamiiholy crap you must run with some bad dps, personally i dont see tanks doing 350 dps, and thats not even 90% of what i consistently see from my static groups' dpsQuote:
Originally Posted by Delorean
now then, from a dps' standpoint (since i main a dps class), finding a war who is able to throw up storms eye most of the time would be great, but to expect 100% up time if the warrior has to do any tanking at all, its just not going to happen, sure it might be nice and all, but just look at all the bards that do good dps without a dragoon, at least ninjas should always have the debuff up some of the time, and ninjas wont even have to nerf their damage by singing songs.
with that said, players in general should always try to outperform themselves, in the case of warriors, one of the things they can do is throw up storms eye a little more, if it was even .1 dps higher than the last attempt because of it, then its better.
on a side note, storms path doesn't require 100% uptime, as a tank you should know when the spike damage is coming and plan accordingly, if theres no spike damage coming for a while, throw up a storms eye instead of a storms path.