Where are the new jobs for EXISTING classes?

Ok SE is making new classes and jobs for those classes, where are the new jobs for existing classes? Are the rest of us going to be stuck with one job? (except summoner/scholar)

expansions, i guess

So we could have more situations where we have to choose the 30 bonus points between two classes? Nahh.

Hopefully they never do that with the SMN/SCH stat allocation fiasco.

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Originally Posted by MeeDeggiThePunisher

Hopefully they never do that with the SMN/SCH stat allocation fiasco.

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Except it's already planned to do so, and is working as intended.

Maybe if they worked on a FREE stat allocation system for those 30 extra points, it wouldn't piss off more people than it pleases. SE knows they'll only get hate by adding more jobs to existing classes, so that's my guess as to why they're holding off.

2nd jobs? Having to choose what to specialize in? What could be worse!

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Originally Posted by ispano

Except it's already planned to do so, and is working as intended.

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Working as intended is not the same as, "intelligently designed."

Dark Knight coming off from MRD (for example) would not be the end of the world. STR instead of VIT. OH no! (And I imagine there could be lots of situations where going one way or the other would not a huge deal). I like choices even at the expense of making one job "worse."

More importantly, where the hell is the class that's been there since 1.0 and still has a guild but still isn't playable after more than 3 years?

The rogue took them.

It would be nice if they actually improved what they already have in game. There are still a lot of classes that don't have their second job.

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Originally Posted by Nayto

The rogue took them.

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"Borrowed." Stealing is frowned upon in Eorzea. More of a Vana'diel thing.

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Originally Posted by MGunns

Ok SE is making new classes and jobs for those classes

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You will doubtfully ever see a second job for a class again, the class system does nothing but drag the abillity to be original with the jobs themselves. Rogue may as well not exist and just had Ninja as it's own self contained job...and go forward like that. The class system just hamstrings the jobs themselves.

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Originally Posted by Enepttastic

Working as intended is not the same as, "intelligently designed."

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Yet some people think it is. I for one think it's a good idea to make you choose.

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Originally Posted by Enepttastic

Working as intended is not the same as, "intelligently designed."

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Oh no, you have to specialize for a particular role? What horror.

Heaven forbid should anyone be different from another player. Imagine a game with creativity. Sounds worse than cancer.

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Originally Posted by JarinArenos

Oh no, you have to specialize for a particular role? What horror.

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specializing? To hell with that, for the low low price of only 10,000 you can easily redistribute your bonus points! Buy it now!!

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Originally Posted by JarinArenos

Oh no, you have to specialize for a particular role? What horror.

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While the sarcasm is charming, this is irritating for people who thrive on multi-classing. I see this as a system that will fade away in the future for the sake of diversity so I'm not too fussed about it, but being almost completely prevented from playing my Summoner is really lame. I enjoy it, I want to do it more, but I main a Scholar and I'm not going to spend 10k company seals constantly so I can not be gimpy when I want to have fun with another job. If I had to do that for every single thing I play it would definitely put a damper on my long-term stay in XIV.

Edit: Not to stray too far from the topic though, I imagine we'll hear more about this towards the fanfest this fall. It seems like they're saving any expansion-related announcements until then.

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Originally Posted by Purrfectstorm

Dark Knight coming off from MRD (for example) would not be the end of the world. STR instead of VIT. OH no! (And I imagine there could be lots of situations where going one way or the other would not a huge deal). I like choices even at the expense of making one job "worse."

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Meh, I don't even run VIT as WAR. Honestly don't think for a moment that the 540ish HP is worth anywhere near as much as what STR brings.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

You will doubtfully ever see a second job for a class again, the class system does nothing but drag the abillity to be original with the jobs themselves. Rogue may as well not exist and just had Ninja as it's own self contained job...and go forward like that. The class system just hamstrings the jobs themselves.

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I wish I could disagree with this but honestly, I can't.

I kind of agree. What happened with the idea that "eventually every class will have two branching jobs to choose from"? Personally I would rather have options. I figured since they started doing this with the Arcanist class that every class that would come after would also have 2 job options.

For me, Arcanist having two jobs is fine. I knew right away that I wanted to play as a Summoner and not a Scholar. Hell I still haven't even unlocked Scholar, because I have absolutely no interest in having a fairy pet, period (or looking like I just graduated). Plus, if I want to heal I have White Mage for that.

I understand people that actually want to play both Jobs are going to find it difficult to perform as well on one as the other due to the stat allocation, but honestly, with gear this isn't as huge a problem as people seem to be blowing it up into. Personally I hope they aren't waiting for a stat allocation solution before implementing secondary Jobs to current (and future) classes.

I hope I wasn't the only one today (while happy about Rouge/Ninja) that was disappointed that they only had one new class to introduce. The signage specifically said "New Classes", so, hopefully we get more reveals on Wed and Thurs.

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Originally Posted by AeirTalies

Heaven forbid should anyone be different from another player. Imagine a game with creativity. Sounds worse than cancer.

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We're talking about an MMORPG right? So long as there's progression, there will never be player creativity when it comes to stats and ideal playstyle towards that. There will never be a "free choice" to what you should do to be optimal or efficient. It's essentially the same as the concept of dominant strategy. You have other options or a freedom to choose what to do and how to do it, but there is always going to be a "best" way to do it.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

You will doubtfully ever see a second job for a class again, the class system does nothing but drag the abillity to be original with the jobs themselves. Rogue may as well not exist and just had Ninja as it's own self contained job...and go forward like that. The class system just hamstrings the jobs themselves.

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Well, that depends how you view the jobs I suppose.

People are actually whining about stat allocation for two jobs?

... wow I just...
...just wow.

Just wanted to add my 2 cent on what I think is happening. I believe once we get the first expansion many of the classes will get new jobs. The reason rogue got released is because it is one if the classes that was promised from the beginning just like musketeer. I think we will see a gun class before first expansion. I don't predict an expansion anytime soon probably not before 2 years from release the way they are patching and updating the game. We will all have to be patient but I see a bright future when the expansion release with tons of new content that will keep everyone happy.

Hopefully they just cut the class/job separation altogether.

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Originally Posted by Enepttastic

Meh, I don't even run VIT as WAR. Honestly don't think for a moment that the 540ish HP is worth anywhere near as much as what STR brings.



I wish I could disagree with this but honestly, I can't.

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you grossly overstate the weight of str. 30-50 str is only about 10-15 dmg its even less on summoner where dots have a potency of 30-40%

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Originally Posted by CYoung187

Hopefully they just cut the class/job separation altogether.

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I don't think they would be able to separate the class/jobs. I'm just thinking from a technical perspective.

You never play Ragnarok Online then.

I hope they add 2nd jobs for all classes. It would feel unfinished when they just add more new classes with one job. Arcanist would feel like: "shoot, we need another healer but no time left, just link it to arcanist". Not to mention the attributes fiasco it comes with.

It's okay when you like to "specialize" (<-- you really think you specialize? lol) in one job. It's okay when you don't mind the corresponding job to be slightly gimped. Can it also be okay when there are people out there who want to play both without the slight gimp or having to Fate farm/Leve farm seals for the reset scrolls? Isn't this more of a choice instead of choosing one time what to spend your points on?

Why can't we just gil buy an item so we can reset it (wherever we want)? I'm all for choices, but this "specialize" thing did not pan out too well.

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Originally Posted by Purrfectstorm

Dark Knight coming off from MRD (for example) would not be the end of the world. STR instead of VIT. OH no! (And I imagine there could be lots of situations where going one way or the other would not a huge deal). I like choices even at the expense of making one job "worse."

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Actually alot of Warriors go Str, since they have more than enough HP and play off-tank most of the time anyway so might aswell do more damage.

When you branch multiple Jobs off one Class, then you have 2 Jobs that are essentially the same.
The only difference will be the 5 Job abilities.
Also, they generally stay with the same type of weapon. I'd like to see new weapons get introduced.
Furthermore, when you introduce new classes, you get a wider range of cross-class skills, which sure sounds good to me.

Besides that, i enjoy leveling.

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Originally Posted by Aery

When you branch multiple Jobs off one Class, then you have 2 Jobs that are essentially the same.

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Summoner and Scholar are pretty different. Sure they share the same basic attacks from Arcanist, but the last time I checked a healer and a dps were different roles.

Imagine you branch Dark Knight off Marauder.

You'd have a Dark Knight with an Axe? And what would Dark Knight do with the Enmity combo? Is he gonna tank?

I remember in an interview or live letter that SE wouldn't be afraid to change certain basic skills of the class to others for the job in order for them to accomplish different things. Changing 'Skull Sunder' to a more damage-intentioned combo wouldn't be unheard of. Same for gladiator really. This would have to break from the mold of 'each job only getting 1 ability every 5 levels', but it would be necessary really.

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Originally Posted by Aery

Imagine you branch Dark Knight off Marauder.

You'd have a Dark Knight with an Axe? And what would Dark Knight do with the Enmity combo? Is he gonna tank?

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Personally, I doubt Drk would come from Mrd. Because yeah.. Drk with Axes don't make sense. They are going for a traditional look to jobs. If they even were to add Drk to a current class I would think it would be Gladiator.

As for emnity combos, the +emnity could be altered with a Job Trait that changes +Emnity on abilities using that to something like +Damage or something that would increase base damage of the attacks. Turn Flash into Darkness, keep the aoe blind effect, make it more potent and also give players a damage buff for the duration. Instead of shields, add a sword grip for the secondary slot that also helps to increase the damage output making Dark Knight a dps class.

It's possible, would just take some reworking of the existing skills to make it work.

All that aside, I would still rather Dark Knight come from a new Class personally. But if they were going to add to an existing one, Gladiator would make the most sense, due to the fact they also turn into Paladins. Essentially just like Cecil.

LOL at all the people complaining about stat allocation. Stat allocation means didly squat really. All content that you would be using any alt classes on would not be required to have the 30 bonus points to actually complete. If i play on my summoner who is i80~ and all points in mind, i can out dps some people who are i85~ with all their stats in int. It really comes down to one thing... SKILL.

Iirc, someone parsed the dmg with/without 30 points in int. it was something like 15 dps loss. That really is not that bad considering you should be doing 300+ at full i90, where other classes can only squeeze out 280-290 in certain scenarios.

If all else fails, why not just put 15/15. i did for a while and never had any issues healing any of the endgame content with my scholar.

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Originally Posted by Axlle10

If i play on my summoner who is i80~ and all points in mind, i can out dps some people who are i85~ with all their stats in int. It really comes down to one thing... SKILL.

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Kind of a pointless analogy really. I can out DPS a level 50 afk Monk on my level 1 Summoner... Who'd have thunk it!

The sooner the bonus attributes go the better really. There's zero choice by class/job in your allocation with the exception of the aforementioned Sch/Smn idiocy. Play a tank, go Vit, melee DD go Str, Healer Mnd... Rinse repeat. This illusion of them being there to be allocated is nonsensical.

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Originally Posted by Parodine

I remember in an interview or live letter that SE wouldn't be afraid to change certain basic skills of the class to others for the job in order for them to accomplish different things. Changing 'Skull Sunder' to a more damage-intentioned combo wouldn't be unheard of. Same for gladiator really. This would have to break from the mold of 'each job only getting 1 ability every 5 levels', but it would be necessary really.

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He wasn't referring to turning it into a completely different ability. He was referring to being able to remove the high enmity tag from attacks for a DPS job coming out of a tank class so that you can actually DPS without being forced to tank.

The bigger problem with multiple jobs based off of the same class isn't single abilities but the entire suites of abilities. GLA and MRD have too few attacks, too many tank CDs, and too few DPS CDs to viably become balanced DPS (beef up the damage/attack and they'll still be way more survivable than any of the other DPS). Except for ACN and CNJ, no class has the baseline capabilities to fulfill all of the requirements of a healer in just 5 job abilities (healers require a maintenance heal, a cheap heal, a big heal, 1 AoE heal, a cleanse, combat rez, a not-unlimited mp restoration mechanism, and at least 2 healing/support CDs; there's also a strong argument for there being at least 1 other AoE heal that is situational to some extent thanks to WD for SCH). CNJ has too many heals and support abilities, especially those tied to traits, that would need to either be completely replaced (and saying "Cure changes into an attack with these attributes" is completely replacing it, not changing it) or completely ignored.

The only real possibilities for second jobs off of the existing classes are tank jobs off of LNC and PGL because all that requires is removing some positional requirements and replacing them with high enmity mods, and then adding a tank stance and filling out the suite of tank CDs (some other stuff would need to be tweaked too, like BfB getting rid of the increased damage taken). The tanks are too tanky to be turned into DPS, CNJ is too healy to be turned into anything but a healer, and no one but the current healers can actually get everything a healer needs.

2 job classes are not going to be the norm. They require that the class be built with 2 jobs in mind from the start: ACN gets a baseline heal, a combat rez, an mp maintenance mechanism (that also provides a resource system that further adds to the SCH playstyle), and a very easily co-opted system that allows them to shift from DPS to healer at 30 with no problem (the fairies provide maintenance healing as well as an immediate AoE heal right at 30, so that SCH has maintenance, cheap, burst, and at least *some* AoE healing, when ACN only has a single target heal) that further causes what is a DPS CD for ACN/SMN to become a healing CD for SCH (Rouse).

I get the feeling when they do release the second job soul for each class, it'll be at a point in time where the bonus stats from leveling will have a very negligible impact on the overall output of the class. If we're at a point where the "norm" is 1K in the primary stat, those additional 30 points will be a very minor boost to that. But then you have to ask at that point in time, what's the point of having these "bonus stats" from levels then.