The new 1.18 Battle System enhancements thread!

Hey guys! We finally received our new battle system, and to be honest my initial opinion was positive!

It's semi obvious that the battle system left some open ended features for us(the players) to speak our minds about before the upcoming 1.19 Patch, witch will bring rise to the more solidified adjustments. (This is what I took from it at-least)

So with that in mind, let's talk about what more we would like to add to the solid foundation we have received in patch 1.18.

First of all, I would like to see a few steps in the actual engaging process simplified a bit.
I think once we are in Active mode, we should only have to click/select our target once to instantly engage with them. While on the other hand, if we are in passive, we would need to highlight the enemy first, then click/select again to engage.

Some other things I would like to be seen, might be along the lines of some kind of "attack" button, and auto-lock on the target with the ability at the press of a button to lock-off if needed, that way we can turn around etc..

Tell me what you guys would also like to see???

A lot of them are intermingle with the incoming job system, and BR revamp, and UI problems.

I think we have too many skills so far, and some of them need combining or taken out.

It's slowly forming into FF11-next gen, which isn't a bad thing as it's pretty slick for its time. We can do some eventual stuff like combos and chaining, and fusion ideas, but the ground work is good so far.

If they can get the BR revamp, it more or less fill up any gaps people find "boring".

The UI...well we can stick to macros, or they can finally increase the columns. (which they are)

I just made a new character to test out the system from fresh. And I won't lie, it is definitely a solid system. It is much more flued, and doesn't lag the character animations like the spamming of the 1 key did. On top of that, I noticed the action I was obtaining between ranks 1-7 were less than normal? I only obtained 2 actions, I seem to remember always getting something every 2 levels? That surprised me, but in a good way, maybe we do have less actions.

However, as positive as the battle system is, I hope they come out with a really good tutorial for it, cause I had to figure out everything from scratch, including auto-lock, how to turn off auto-attack during combat, how to engage, and how to determine if I am engaged at all.

They really need to do something on the keys/mouse end of the spectrum cause It was very luggish, luckily I picked it right up with a controller lol

I don't think they took into account that the removal of and/or addition of 30 second recast times on normal attacks would severely hinder the use of over half of Battle Regimens. Its quite a problem.

Is it me or does auto-attack seem really slow? the combat just isnt as fun now that fights are dragged out because I can only swing an axe every 4s. Some the recasts are ridiculous, 60s recast on heavy thrust or full thrust. I only end up using them once (if at all) in a fight making it next to useless

Typically I use my main attacks as Full Thrust (for TP) and Heavy Thrust. You can imagine how fighting felt for me after this change. Being that they were the main two attacks I've selected for myself I was going, "What? Seriously? I have to wait a minute to hit it again?"

PLEASE lower that back down. Fighting felt horribly slow and that was with monsters over a dozen levels lower than me, and I hate to think that I have to pick all new moves just because of bad recast times.

Stuff besides the recast times seemed fine, but, like I said, the moves I used they upped to a full minute so it took a huge chunk out of my fighting. It feels like my two favorite moves are going to be near-useless now because of how little I'd get to use them in combat.

(To note: I liked the fighting in this game because it was fast and I was constantly selecting different moves according to the occasion. Now it feels like I'm selecting different moves because they're the only ones my recast timer isn't on, not because I was getting ready to use them.
I'm at least glad to hear not EVERY move was nerfed that much, just the ones I liked. It used to feel like I was doing a lot in a fight. The last few fights I felt more like I was standing there.)

In general, I like the feel, but as stated, the recast timers on the basic attacks are way too high. Cutting them in half from a 30/60 second recast to a 15/30 second recast would feel a bit better. I, too, thought combat felt a little slow with the way they set the basic attack recast timers. And to top it off, now some of them require MP. The long recast in addition to the new MP costs is just too much. I'd be happy with the MP cost if the timers were halved.

Yeah, I think I would have died if I fought a normal monster the first time. My fight basically went:

"Oh, new icons, and are they bigger now? Cool."
*walks up to monster*
*Full Thrust*
"...? I can't use it again for 1:00? ...Ok, Heavy Thrust it is then, I guess."
*Heavy Thrust*
"...I can't use that against for a minute either?? *glance back at Full Thrust, timer is at about :50* Umm, well I guess I have enough TP to Skewer it..."
*Skewer II*
"...So now what? I just used my TP and the timers on my normal moves to get more TP are still at :45. ...I guess I'm getting TP from getting hit?"
*Invigorate*
*Moonrise/Skewer/something*

For monsters way lower than me that pretty much made up the entire fight. But yeah, it felt super sluggish and weird that I couldn't use my basic moves. I would lower those down to 0:15 or something.

(I guess there's auto-attack now, but I don't think I ever saw my guy use it? It must be fairly slow because I had a lot of pauses there where I was trying to figure out what to do.)

Oh yeah, positioning for AA can be a pain, especially for a short pugilist attacking a flying enemy. AA delay is probably a little high, too.

i havent been on yet so can anyone tell me if rage of halone is any stronger/different, or just a new animation.

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Originally Posted by BlaiseLallaise

In general, I like the feel, but as stated, the recast timers on the basic attacks are way too high. Cutting them in half from a 30/60 second recast to a 15/30 second recast would feel a bit better. I, too, thought combat felt a little slow with the way they set the basic attack recast timers. And to top it off, now some of them require MP. The long recast in addition to the new MP costs is just too much. I'd be happy with the MP cost if the timers were halved.

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Personally I think the recast timers for basic attacks should be a derivation on the weapons delay. (I will be using Gladiator skills for this example.) So if you have a weapon delay of 2.5 seconds then something like light stab should be about 75% of that speed since it was faster then the basic slash before which would give you a delay of 1.9 seconds. Heavy slash was one of the biggest stamina costing basic skills so something like 200% so a 5 second recast. Since heavy stab was between light and heavy slash something like 150% would be appropriate so 3.8 seconds. (percentages can be adjusted as needed.)

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

i havent been on yet so can anyone tell me if rage of halone is any stronger/different, or just a new animation.

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Restricted to use by gladiators
Now delivers a five-fold attack dealing piercing damage
PC motion changed

It hits a little harder in my opinion. Still a good move as a tank if you can keep the enmity on you while it charges.

Guys seriously, stop complainting... you asked for Auto-Attack, there you have it. It is fair that most secondary attacks have big timers, otherwise I could nerly spam Heavy Thrust, Pierce, Full Thrust, PLUS the automatic Light Thrust. The patch is meant for us to think, play with skill and not wasting our moves. Yesterday when I started playing my LNC I really felt like playing an FF series game... before I felt like idk... playing WoW or something.

They are trying to balance game, and for that, nerfing is needed. THM lost massive healing, well, don't you remember RDM NOT having Curaga on FFXI, you needed to level WHM to get that one, to make up with that RDM got refresh, phalanx, fast cast, awesome debuffing, etc... I'm sure something good is coming for THM, just wait.

First of all there is a difference between complaining and critiquing, secondly we all didn't ask for auto attack.

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Originally Posted by Tyro

Guys seriously, stop complainting... you asked for Auto-Attack, there you have it.

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I didn't.

I don't think moves like Full Thrust and Heavy Thrust need such a long timer. It felt weird that something like Skewer can be re-used in what, 10 seconds? But I couldn't use either of the basic moves.
I already used my moves before the patch a lot; I'd go through them depending on what would help the most. I wouldn't mind a little slowing down because it was very fast, but 1:00 is a pretty big delay time and doesn't seem to make sense compared to other moves.

Before the patch I was actually wondering how auto-attack would even work because I didn't use the same move twice in a row too often.

(Now having played a bit more I can work it, but I think there may be some un-intended problems. I was having trouble knocking horns off goats because my guy keeps auto-attacking them to death. I may have to turn my back to them or something.)

You, like many others complaining about the long skill cooldown timers are forgetting a key feature of FFXIV which it pains me to have to remind you.

Did you forget you have Marauder, Gladiator, and Puglist skills at your disposal as well? Are you trying to play FFXIV by spamming 2-3 keys? If you aren't using at least 1-2 full bars of active skills, you aren't doing it correctly.

"because I didn't use the same move twice in a row too often."

I think that would suggest I use more than 2 moves. I do have full rows and I use them all. I have LNC, PUG, GLA, THM, CON... I use quite a few abilities on my guy. I just don't like being forced to use Light Thrust inbetween other stuff instead of moves I preferred to use, and rarely getting to make use of some moves I used to like quite a bit.

Doing something like knocking horns off a billy seems a lot more troublesome now. Instead of waiting and using Full Thrust to get TP and use the appropriate moves, my guy wants to keep hitting it with Light Thrust which does more damage, and I can hardly even use Full Thrust anymore.
I went ahead and turned my back to the goat but it was still troublesome. Full Thrust takes too long and the autoattack hits too hard and kills it too fast. This really needs a lot more tweaking.


(To Note: I'm not saying "get rid of the whole thing". I'm saying the way they did it certainly isn't perfect, and I'm voicing issues here so that it can be fixed.
Having a problem farming not because of level or anything but because of the controls is a problem. I had no problem farming these horns before, and now it's a mess of running around trying not to kill the goat by accident/not being able to use weaker moves to get TP. Changing some of the timers to be so high didn't improve things. They should have more reasonable timers.)

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Originally Posted by TengoMike

there is a difference between complaining and critiquing

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For some reason I feel the need to reiterate this point. I can't fathom how anyone could interpret this conversation as a complaint thread.

There is a huge difference between:

1. After experiencing the changes, I feel the system could better benefit from altering certain aspects.

and:

2. OMFG Why didn't they do it like I think they should?!?!?!!!!

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Originally Posted by Raim

I don't think they took into account that the removal of and/or addition of 30 second recast times on normal attacks would severely hinder the use of over half of Battle Regimens. Its quite a problem.

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They have mentioned that Battle Regimen changes would be coming, but not immediately.

Hi Syde, I do agree about the auto-attack having multiple ways to trigger it.

If we select the monster first, then go into Active Mode is closer to what I was expecting in terms of being intuitive.

I also think the combat animations are not always triggering and that some non-WS moves are resetting the attack delay, which makes things a little tricky to gauge right now.

But here's hoping for increased and more diverse battle tactics for success!

Some people just need the feel of pressing something to the sake of pressing stuff.

I never have problems finishing an enemy, with the AA. by the time I heavy and full thrust, I have enough TP to feint twice if lucky, which charges leads into a full buff WS spam. If the enemy is still living, it's still faster then the old way.

On glad and pug...omg I like never run out of stuff to do. Between shield skills, and Palanx, and all the counters you proc, you're sitting on TP manafesto. I can get 4 palanx and 2 WS out back to back with going inputs faster then animations will allow.

I don't know what people are talking about. It's probably all the nay-AA people. 60 seconds is already generous for zero point skills. The TP spam is already at WoW level which I usually don't like, because it's shallow button combo spams.

Heck if you have time to mull over it, you're probably curing or 2nd wind yourself in solo situations.

If this was a party with actual BR revamping. It would be incredible fast pace.

I like the fact I don't have to be going 112342. since half of it is now AA or macros. and I can even get out a shield bash finally on to interrupt or stunning.

It's been so long since those skills are actually on my bar....

If you like slow and painfully dull combat? sure but not everyone will like it this slow, I for sure don't. Sure Pre-1.18 was fast, frantic and spammy but now combat feels like a chore and for once I feel more like going out gatherin than fighting.

I dont see waiting around for what use to be a usefull ability for 1min to be generous. Its not just the combat and nerfs that the Devs went overboard with but thats for another sub-forum. Also like to note enemies arnt as slow as players, its seems like we've been hit by a slow spell all the time.

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Originally Posted by Skeloton

If you like slow and painfully dull combat? sure but not everyone will like it this slow, I for sure don't. Sure Pre-1.18 was fast, frantic and spammy but now combat feels like a chore and for once I feel more like going out gatherin than fighting.

I dont see waiting around for what use to be a usefull ability for 1min to be generous. Its not just the combat and nerfs that the Devs went overboard with but thats for another sub-forum. Also like to note enemies arnt as slow as players, its seems like we've been hit by a slow spell all the time.

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NO clue what you're talking about. I barely have any time to react as it is. I can do 4 phanax and 2 WS, which I couldn't pre-1.18. And if my shield don't block, I that's when I charge up TP using light stab and heavy. Add in a cure and shield skils... I'm doing more then I was doing 1.18 and better.

Before I couldn't phalanx or feint right, now I'm like doing it back to back at times since the 5 second timer is so tight.

I think your spammy attack skills are making you slow honestly. Do you even feint or any of the counter skills? They are supremely powerful now on solo.

If I didn't know better, I wold bet you're spamming all your skills and then complain you're running out of them.

I don't even do heavies much anymore, because I'm expecting the enemy to attack so I can proc my counter phalanx.