There should be more punishment!

First, why are people queuing in Duty Finder only to leave as soon as the dungeon begins?

That being saud, I think a 30-minute penalty isn't enough. One thing that COULD be done is:

- Keep the 30 minute lockout from content.

- Apply a 60-minute lockout from getting loot of any kind (except gil or items collected from a side quest).

I bet this keep players IN the dungeon or help to decide if they really want to queue to begin with.

It's 11:34am right now. I have yet to complete a dungeon for my Atma quest since 8:42am.

Yeah, people are being silly, but think of it this way: Their leaving opens a spot in party where everyone who hasn't left is willing to tough out the dungeon. Try queueing in progress more often and you'll probably find a 0/3 where your role left.

I propose that a persistent debuff (24 hour duration which is refreshed if another stack is added) be applied if you leave a duty first (or are vote kicked/voted to kick), and if it reaches 3, DF functions are locked out. I also propose this debuff be viewable by anyone as a shaming mechanic, and that vote kicking someone denies them the ability to collect that days tome bonus from that roulette.

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Originally Posted by r2rknot

(or are vote kicked/voted to kick)

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I don't like this. I understand punishing somebody for leaving the dungeon early, but not for votekicked.
You are already punished by your party by forcing you to not finish the dungeon, it would be unfair to get another punishment.
And most of the time, the reason for votekicking a member is not a valid reason.

This crap again every few days another one of these posts comes up please just post in a existing thread...se can ignore lots of little threads but not a increasingly big one
I made a suggestion thread to prevent roulette abuse and it was pretty much ignored
at the end of the day the more tome grinds se puts in the worse it's gonna get IMHO

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Originally Posted by Sounders

I don't like this. I understand punishing somebody for leaving the dungeon early, but not for votekicked.
You are already punished by your party by forcing you to not finish the dungeon, it would be unfair to get another punishment.
And most of the time, the reason for votekicking a member is not a valid reason.

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Those people vote kicking also get the same debuff, so as to not make it attractive for abuse. Otherwise you get "Well I'm not doing this one, go ahead and votekick me, but I'm not tanking/DD'ing/Healing". And so far, every votekick I've encountered in my limited time has been pretty valid.

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Originally Posted by Ddmk

This crap again every few days another one of these posts comes up please just post in a existing thread...se can ignore lots of little threads but not a increasingly big one
I made a suggestion thread to prevent roulette abuse and it was pretty much ignored
at the end of the day the more tome grinds se puts in the worse it's gonna get IMHO

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Square Enix does need to polish up on their dungeon designing if its going to be the vehicle for advancement, I agree.

I'm more inclined to see the opposite happening. Total anarchy.

0 penalty for leaving.
All level 50 will have mandatory join in-progress.
No job restriction. Entirely possible to start a duty with 4 attackers.
Can change class in dungeon.
Vote kicking requires everyone's approval (except target), no reuse "cool-down". (vote kick immunity for 10min after one failed attempt against target)
Vote abandon removed.

Honestly I disagree with most of these suggestions. I understand wanting penalties for those who leave early but a blanket penalty just does not work. Since it's not appropriate to remove someone from the dungeon for being brain dead (which I've been finding more and more of lately), leaving the dungeon of my own volition is sometimes my only option. Sitting with a group of people and wiping on the same boss for hours is not my idea of fun. I'm all for helping others, but some people refuse to put in the time and effort to not waste other players time.

For example, I needed Sunken Temple the other day to complete my atma book. So I cued up on my tank and got into the dungeon. The "new player" think popped up. So I pulled like normal and announced mechanics that were pertinent to each pull or the boss. After we wiped at the first boss (half the party died to the first doom because they didn't understand the mechanic). We ran back and I kindly asked. If you are new to the dungeon please speak up and ask questions so we can explain the fight and help you. One of the players said, "I'm good been here before." complete silence from the other players. SO I explained again in more detail and we wiped immediately again. Same two players died. I asked them why they kept dying and they said, "Idk its hard" ...I asked what was hard and they said they kept dying and couldn't figure out what was hitting them. It was almost as if they had just completely ignored all my explanations. I then suggested that they should watch a video of the fight to help them learn the mechanics and they got pissed off. Really? you expect me to take the time to carry your lazy a$$ through the dungeon when your not willing to take the time to learn it.

At this point I just left the dungeon. I've got better more important things to do than to babysit people who should just go ahead and delete their account.

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Originally Posted by Nabian

Honestly I disagree with most of these suggestions. ... leaving the dungeon of my own volition is sometimes my only option.... waste other players time.

At this point I just left the dungeon. I've got better more important things to do ...

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For the sake of 1k chars, and to illustrate the OP point I shortened your response. You're exactly the reason this issue exists.

But your "this one time" is almost exactly that. One time. Numerous times have others had a 'role in need' go "lawlz not this one." leave and simply go eat dinner, queue. Those roles are not easily replaced. in addition, if you are leaving 3 times in a 72 hour period in my proposal, you are doing something wrong. Instances like yours are not common, while the other happens often. I don't' expect anyone that regularly leaves parties for ANY reason to enjoy being held accountable for the practice.

The better option would be a redesign of content where players don't feel the need to massively grind in one map for the best return. You guys are mad about a symptom not the root cause.

The punishment is perfectly reasonable just the way it is. There is too much chance for people to get overly punished for having legitimate reasons to have to leave a dungeon early.

Hell if I'm in a dungeon and one of my dogs start puking on the floor or my wife has an emergency and yells for me to come help her I'm leaving the dungeon. Would be very crappy for me to have a huge punishment for having to leave for a good reason.

I understand it's annoying that people leave, but short of it being a tank (which honestly isn't necessary in low level dungeons, I think i've 3 manned just about all of them with decent players) it's easy to replace and move on.

Seriously though, every dungeon below mid 40's is easy enough that 2 dps and 1 healer can complete them.

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Originally Posted by Poringing

I'm more inclined to see the opposite happening. Total anarchy.

0 penalty for leaving.
All level 50 will have mandatory join in-progress.
No job restriction. Entirely possible to start a duty with 4 attackers.
Can change class in dungeon.
Vote kicking requires everyone's approval (except target), no reuse "cool-down". (vote kick immunity for 10min after one failed attempt against target)
Vote abandon removed.

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THIS is brilliant, i think.
Would pretty much remove the problem completely.

The only parts of that I'd agree with is the class change in dungeon. By forming premades you can already circumvent standard party setups.

Having no penalties for leaving will only enforce the people who'll abandon duties from the start and removing vote abandon will basically bind people to bad parties, especially when the offending/underperforming player won't leave on their own.

This would only serve to further drive people away from doing dungeons, thus making queue times worse for everyone.

how about NO! you can't force people to play something they choose not to. Especially since a lot of people see long dungeons as chores anyway. tanking these dungeons are NOT fun.

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Originally Posted by scarletfoxxy

how about NO! you can't force people to play something they choose not to.

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Then why are you subscribed to this game?

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

First, why are people queuing in Duty Finder only to leave as soon as the dungeon begins?

That being saud, I think a 30-minute penalty isn't enough. One thing that COULD be done is:

- Keep the 30 minute lockout from content.

- Apply a 60-minute lockout from getting loot of any kind (except gil or items collected from a side quest).

I bet this keep players IN the dungeon or help to decide if they really want to queue to begin with.

It's 11:34am right now. I have yet to complete a dungeon for my Atma quest since 8:42am.

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I think the main reason was they were doing ATMA book dungeon (by roulette) as well...

If the problem is people roulette-shopping, surely a potential solution is taking away roulette bonuses for the day rather than duty finder use. If you're the first to leave a dungeon, you lose that day's roulette bonus. It's still entirely possible that it would negatively impact some people who had to leave for legitimate reasons, but roulette bonus isn't that important and losing it doesn't make the game unplayable for the rest of the day. And really, an IRL emergency is so much more important than tomestones that it wouldn't register as an annoyance beyond 'eh, bummer' if it came to that.

Really, I think 'more punishment' isn't the answer. A better way to think of it is to consider the roulette reward what it is: a reward for agreeing to run whatever dungeon you got thrown into. Losing it isn't a punishment, it's just not getting a reward because you didn't do what was asked of you.

In response to scarletfoxxy, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect people to commit to finishing a dungeon once they enter. I understand that tanking a long dungeon can be very stressful, but we're not talking about forcing people to do it. These are people who specifically queued up to do that dungeon because they wanted to. Or people who queued for it via roulette, with the understanding that the roulette bonus is a reward for sticking out whatever dungeon it throws you in. As far as I'm aware, short of accidentally queueing for the wrong thing there's no way to end up within a dungeon without first saying 'yup, I sure do want to be in this dungeon'.

So, let's say you are leveling a new DPS class and decided to do the highes't Lv dungeon avalible to you. You as a DPS class waited 30min+ to get into said dungeon just for me to leave as soon as I see it's a dungeon I personally don't enjoy tanking. Thus, wasting your time because we both know that no tank is going to join it in progress. And that's totaly okay and fine by some of you? Yeah okay.

Not true at all. I have had tanks and healers join in progress. I always mark the join in progress box when I do the daily roulettes on my healer in hopes of getting a run that is towards the end for fast easy tomes.

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Originally Posted by r2rknot

I propose that a persistent debuff (24 hour duration which is refreshed if another stack is added) be applied if you leave a duty first (or are vote kicked/voted to kick), and if it reaches 3, DF functions are locked out. I also propose this debuff be viewable by anyone as a shaming mechanic, and that vote kicking someone denies them the ability to collect that days tome bonus from that roulette.

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I got vote-kicked from a lvl 31 dungeon as a lvl 50 whm for trying to help explain a fight we kept wiping to because the dps didn't want to do anything but stay on the boss and not kill additional mobs needed to complete the dungeon.

The tank and I qued as a party and the dps qued as a party. 2 votes are needed to kick.

So you are saying I should be punished for trying to help?

That was a reportable abuse of the Vote Kick function. Sure, it might seem petty, but they were wrong to kick when you were just trying to help. Now I hope you were tactful in doing so, because verbally berating someone might be the exception to the rule, but I'm giving you (and anyone) the benefit of the doubt that you were nice about it.

Beyond this, I can't stress enough; the system itself is not flawed. The human element is. Stacking punishments will only backfire and draw people away from dungeons, making queue times even longer. So no, there should NOT be more punishments. I do however believe that - with SE's way of investigating player reports - individuals should be held more accountable. Yes, it makes more work for them, but it spares the entire player base from blanket punishments/restrictions.

People who want greater punishment for leaving the dungeon are (IMO) usually the people who suck at the game.
Just yesterday I queued for low roulette as normal. I got Cutter's Cry and I was the only high-level player, the other players were lvl 37 I believe. Well they were horrible but before you judge me I soldiered through the whole thing and at each boss explained the strategy extensively. We didn't clear it anyway. First they kept wiping for abt 20 mins at first boss because the healer wouldn't listen to me and kept dying so the adds would attack the rest of the group (I told her to focus on healing herself while I DPS and heal the tank cause she couldn't keep up...). The worm was fine. Then they kept wiping at Chimera cause they simply couldn't understand how the eyes work although I think the healer was following me. The tank disappeared 10 mins before the end so we voted abandon. BUT. [Continued in the next post]

i queue again. Get Cutter's Cry again. Get all newbies again. I think OK I'll try. I explained the strategy etc. ofc we die at 1st boss so I DPS and heal again. We kill the princess. Now the worm. I keep dying because the worm keeps attacking me (I don't mean aggro, he does this one attack where he turns around and attacks another player + this and the sand vortex) and IDK what the healer was doing. I quit. I gave up. JUST HOW MUCH MORE CHARITY WORK DO YOU WANT ME TO DO? This bloody game is supposed to be fun for me too you know? Why the eff do I have to be punished with a 24-h ban or sth for quitting in this situation?! Also I was super nice in there but the idiots wouldn't say a word. Eff that.

If you really want to put restrictions on it, why not just restrict the number of times a player can qeue for roulette per day outside of being vote-kicked. That way if the player wants to spend all their tries shopping around for the perfect party or the right dungeon, then they can deal with losing their chance at reward if they abandon one too many times. That way players aren't being directly penalized for abandoning futile situations or because rl throws something at them, but they are being deterred from making a habit of shopping around and then rudely dropping for next to no good reason. Vote-kicking/being vote-kicked doesn't need to be restricted at all, because the system can be abused and who wants to be penalized for trying to give helpful advice when some noob doesn't want to hear it.

How bout a new radical suggestion....

If you abandon a duty..... you have to fight your way out of a gauntlet of mobs.... (as if you are actually escaping and leaving a dungeon).

"Screw it, these noobies are horrible, I dont have time for this..... QUIT".... ok well you abandon duty.... but before you get zoned out to the world map..... you have to fight a gauntlet of mobs to reach the actual exit..

Im thinking the following requirements are necessary:

1.) Level sync to whichever dungeon level you were in.
2.) The gauntlet would be a time trial......proportional to the amount of time spent in the dungeon capped at 30 mins
3.) You can not re enter the real world until the 30 minutes have expired
4.) a treasure chest will pop at the completion of the trial, and the value of the loot will be reflective upon how many mobs killed (this way its not a complete waste of time)
5.) The abandoned party can get a buff of some sort scaled to how the abandonner is doing in the gauntlet.

I know it sounds silly but think of it this way..... The tank leaves 20-30 minutes into Stone Vigil..... well he has to fight his way back OUT of Stone Vigil.... he can run this 30 minute gauntlet killing as many mobs as he can SOLO!. Lets say he clears 80% of the mobs, his treasure chest would loot a green piece of gear so at least it was worth his while.... Meanwhile the party that was left to fend for themselves gets a 1% damage buff for each enemy killed, hence getting more powerful while the tank tries to escape. Everyone wins, and at least the abandoning tank is free to do solo content for the duration.

The person abandoning the dungeon can not sit in town crafting waiting for the lock out to expire/spam mor dhona, or do other productive tasks. He actually has to fight his way out, which would be a punishment in its own because it would be a dull grind your way out. If the tank chose to log out.... well thats his own perogative, and still wont escape the dungeon until the 30 mins are expired..... And more importantly if the abandoner decides to continue playing, at least his progress in the escape is buffing those that were left jilted at the alter.

That solution doesn't really make any sense. There's more than one reason people have to leave. Someone who had to leave because a RL situation popped up would not be interested in wasting time with that. I'm also going to suggest that people who demand ridiculous punishments like to wear full sets of crafting/gathering gear in expert roulette to spirit bind.

Doge if you had to log off for a real life emergency... thats fine. You wouldnt be logging back in for the 30 minute duration of your "gauntlet" and you would zone back in wherever you would have zoned out..... Had no intention of "punishing" those people.

My intention was to give a 30 minute buzz kill to those that join a dungeon, and leave the minute they see it is Pharos Sirus..... and my point was this. Just because i have the 30 minute lockout, it really doesnt stop me from anything... i can atma farm, i can craft, beastmen dailies, low level levequest..... the 30 minute gauntlet i proposed would force the "offender" into a mandatory content exit........ and based on their performance, they would be rewarded...... and meanwhile those that they left stranded would be rewarded with a buff based on your "solo" performance as well.

Obviously the proposal i made would need some tweaking, but it was a kinda cool alternative than the earlier proposals

@SkyHighDN
I'm going to run under the assumption the mob gauntlet's reward is made terrible; don't want people intentionally leaving to go in there (or that could be a mechanic in a new dungeon). Isn't this almost the same as what the OP suggested? "Keep the 30 minute lockout from (all) content." But with extra style?

@Doge
2 things are needed to fix that, they are easy but not sure how long SE plans on stalling.
1. Crafting and gathering gear is combat ilvl1, why did they assign them combat ilvls is beyond me.
2. You are automatically kicked from instance with full penalties if a battle is started with your ilvl below the minimum required amount.

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Originally Posted by SkyHighDN

How bout a new radical suggestion....

If you abandon a duty..... you have to fight your way out of a gauntlet of mobs.... (as if you are actually escaping and leaving a dungeon).

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Alt+F4, wait 5 minutes, log back in.

So how about no to your idea :D

But adding something similar that scales on party size would be a fun addition. Solo with Chocobo? go for it, less mobs, lower reward. Run as full party? more, tougher mobs, scaled rewards and things inbetween. Kinda scale how FATEs do.

@Poringing

I agree. Never meant for the reward to be great... like I said.... a piece of green gear.... thats all.... Alot of the quitters are running for myth tomes now anyways, so yea... I'd love to quit and run a solo punishment gauntlet for a pair of Torturer's Duckbills..... LOL

@Sapphic

How about yes. Upon Log in, you would still be in the gauntlet..for the time restricted penalty. Your rebuttal is moot

I still think this idea of increasing punishment is a horrible idea for a multitude of reasons. Main one being this is a game and punishment doesn't belong in a game that people play for enjoyment. It exists as a deterrent for that type of behavior but it shouldn't go beyond that to become an actual punishment.

I am guilty of leaving a dungeon when i get cutters cry, vigil, dzaemel, purely because I know that it's going to be 40 minutes of headache that I don't want. So, I see your argument that a DPS spends 40 minutes in queue only to finally get a dungeon, and yes it blows that their time might be wasted. But, if I'm queueing as a tank, my time will also be wasted, and spent doing something that is not at all fun for me for 40 minutes.

it is better to be a DPS and have to re-queue and do any number of different in game activities that one enjoys, rather than be a tank and feel obligated to spend 40 minutes doing something that makes me want to unsubscribe from the game.