Simple fix to trading?

1. Remove the ability to queue different languages for Wolve's Den in all brackets.
AND
2. Add another 4v4 option that rewards ZERO EXP AND ZERO marks, for people that wish to just practice/play around. POSSIBLY add a game list (game 1 game 2 game 3 w/ description and maybe even password protected) So people can choose which game server in order to play with friends etc, and at the same time this will allow "for fun 1v1 duels"

The way I see it is if they remove language options in wolves den (which we don't need, at least for wolves) everyone from all servers will be queuing for the same server.. People can still try an queue dodge to try and win trade but since everyone is on the same language server now it would be nothing but a headache to try and q dodge if enough people are queuing.

Any thoughts/ideas?

Sounds about right.. Plus I would love the 1v1 duels.. I play dragoon and have a dragoon friend and we actually have done a couple of 1v1s basically whoever lost there team would forfeit the match...

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Originally Posted by KingAhmoseTheFirst

Sounds about right.. Plus I would love the 1v1 duels.. I play dragoon and have a dragoon friend and we actually have done a couple of 1v1s basically whoever lost there team would forfeit the match...

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Yeah, I think people should remember though that PvP is NOT balanced around 1v1.. I have a feeling as soon as they implement something like that you'll see a ton of QQ threads about how 1 class is OP against another

Liked this.

Hopefully you get some more likes.

To explain why people should like this, SE could consider doing this if we did.

"Is PvP farming allowed" Thread had 7500 views. That is over 100k worth of monthly I come for SE. This provides better options for all PvPers.

Ifa thread that focuses on banning the smallest problem with our current PvP issues can generate 100ks worth of collective bargaining power, but an actual thread that can improve PvP can't....

Satire incoming.
King, your 1 v 1's provided 180 exp, and 60 exp to 6 people who did nothing to earn their exp. And I'm not evening bring up the marks involved!(oh wait I just did.)

Why you giving out free exp man? Win traders everywhere man. Who do you think you are giving free exp to 6 players who did nothing to earn it.

Of course I am kidding, just joining in on the fun of trying to expand the definition of win trading. When 1 v 1's have nothing to do with win trading.

For real though, like this thread.

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Originally Posted by Epistane

2. Add another 4v4 option that rewards ZERO EXP AND ZERO marks

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This.

Giving the highest reward to 4v4 is like SE promoting wintrading.

Not even that, the whole system of random only match making is terrible. It wouldn't be so bad if there weren't rules that added time as a penalty for ranks.

I don't care if it provides exp or not, private or ranked PvP. Doesn't matter to me.

Either way, there should be a way to host or search for hosts.

A host match name, and average rank for team A and B, and a comment system akin to Party Finder would be a huge leap forward for PvP.

Trust me, if the three best teams in my data network had Private Matches up that I can choose to connect to, even seeing their combined average rank, I would connect to them 24 7. For exp or no exp O.o

Bump, really interested in what other ideas everyone else has. One person in my LS was telling me that removing languages wouldn't make a difference because of matchmaking, but like I said before with everyone queuing on the same language server now all you will see is a buttload of pops and withdraws, making it a headache to win trade.

The reasons why people "win trade" is because of the absurd queue times past Rank 36, as well as the huge time commitment because of said queue times.

Fix the queue times, you fix the trading.

Good suggestions, agreed 100%.

More XP per fight

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Originally Posted by Sounders

More XP per fight

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XP is fine, need to reduce XP by 50% each time that you play in 4v4 ladder against same serveur team

How much free time do you people have on your hands that you think the time sink required to progress from 0 to 40 is acceptable? It's orders of magnitude longer than it takes to go from 1-50 on a given class in PVE. That's the main reason people exploit the matchmaking system: because nobody has the time to do it the right way. Especially given that this is supposed to be a "casual" system.

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Originally Posted by Edenlys

XP is fine, need to reduce XP by 50% each time that you play in 4v4 ladder against same serveur team

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Unfortunately, this is one of the worst design ideas that anyone could do. In an MMO, the philosophy should be that you WANT to play with your friends, not that fact that you get HURT by playing with friends. As I stated before, the best way to fix this is fixing the queue system so that it lessens the avenue to even think about win trading.

The problem with playing PVP in FFXIV is that it is not very rewarding. You technically have to win thousands of times in order to reach the max level. Players are already complaining about the atma/animus. Once they found out that PVP is much harder, they just quit before seriously trying. Unless, of course, there is an easy way to reach max level (wintrading).

I really don't care if increasing the XP wound result to a large influx of r40 players. This way, everybody playing in lvl50 would be r40. Everybody would be on equal standing. Almost everyone would have identical gear. It will all boil down to skill. Wouldn't it be more fun knowing that both teams have equal odds of winning?

The wolf marks amount being increased would be nice, so you could gear other classes. There is nothing wrong with the xp reward amount, a tiny little bit more would be okay, yeah. But it's fine the way it is. I'm ranking up steadily and so are all those who enjoy pvp. The only problem is the match making system making queues much longer than they should be, and also constantly bugging out.

To all the peopole saying it's because of queue times.

Yes we all know this. Win trading was very rare/uncommon back in the original rank 30 grind.. but queue's weren't as bad then.. As the months have gone by the only thing that has happened are queues getting worse. This is NOT a QQ/condemning post about win-trading but rather suggestions for fixes.

But since it has been bought up, lets take a different look at how to fix everything then.

1. Put all datacenters together? In order to fix queues (not sure how this will work, I remember someone saying that if they do this it will just make server instances more laggy/buggy/etc?) correct me if I'm wrong
2. Remove matchmaking (not sure how this will work either, it's pretty much made queues worse for higher ranks but I guess it's helped out the lower ranks somewhat?)

ANY suggestions are good, even about queue times since it would indirectly help with trading

Also to the increased exp/marks... Ya'll forget that marks/exp used to pretty much be half of what we get now solo (pre 2.15). And it hasn't really helped q times, altho I did take a break for a month or two so I'm not 100% sure. PLUS it's been stated by a mod in general forums that they don't have any plans to make adjustments to marks/exp sooooo yeah...

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Originally Posted by Epistane

1. Put all datacenters together? In order to fix queues (not sure how this will work, I remember someone saying that if they do this it will just make server instances more laggy/buggy/etc?) correct me if I'm wrong
2. Remove matchmaking (not sure how this will work either, it's pretty much made queues worse for higher ranks but I guess it's helped out the lower ranks somewhat?)

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These suggestions are great, and there are many similar in this section. But everything inside here (pvp section) seems to fall on deaf ears, I'd really suggest someone to make a thread in the suggestions forum. Removing the match-making system is the number one priority to fix these (at times) ridiculous queues.

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Originally Posted by Epistane

To all the peopole saying it's because of queue times.

1. Put all datacenters together? In order to fix queues (not sure how this will work, I remember someone saying that if they do this it will just make server instances more laggy/buggy/etc?) correct me if I'm wrong
2. Remove matchmaking (not sure how this will work either, it's pretty much made queues worse for higher ranks but I guess it's helped out the lower ranks somewhat?)

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1. The datacenter would fix it, if it was just for PvP. The amount of load on a server just for one specific worldzone open is not that much. And if it is..they are running shitass hardware..
2. As far as I know, no one said remove matchmaking. The MMR has to be there, the fact is that for the amount of players that are currently playing...the algorithm that Square is using, does not work.

I posted this a couple weeks ago in regards to maybe enticing more folk to try (and stick with PvP). If more folk were playing in all queues/levels then the Wait times and queues would probably work much smoother and more like the PvE queues. However, I also think doing something like below, would also discourage Win-trading overall because it would be potentially less effective. Make it less effective, and people will stop doing it. (note: I wrote the below, pre-patch and was I like rank 13-14 at the time....post patch, i've had 10+ minute matches occasionally when I solo queue...I've also totally derped a couple causing fast wipes (grr when bene doesn't go off right/when in the heat of the moment wrong party member is targeted for a key heal)....and to those random strangers, so sorry :/)

Link: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...vidual-Rewards

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

So one of the problems with PvP, especially solo queuing is the long grind you have to do coupled with the low rewards given for losing...no matter how good/bad your individual team contribution was.

Since PvP grinding has more or less become a numbers game, with little chance for variance, this has lead to lots of win-trading and botting. If however, individual contributions were weighed in as well, and not simply 'did you win or lose?' Maybe more people would not only queue honestly for the PvP, but enjoy the grind.

For example, it's demoralizing as a dedicated healer to know that every match the other team is gunning for me (or a the blm), and not only are they unable to take me down, but I heal my party, raise my party, do some damage and my team STILL can't pull out a win. Seriously, there have been matches that have lasted 3-4 minutes simply because they can't take me down, but my team can't focus one of their members down either. (again this is in solo-queue PvP)

But no matter how hard I work I might end up with the bare bones in rewards....and in solo queues it's very likely to have a sub 50% win ratio.

Therefore, I think PvP could be greatly improved by not only giving the winning side the better reward but also including extra exp for doing your specific role well...win or lose.

For example:

Healers:
-Get a bonus if they survive over a minute
- heal over a certain amount of HP's
- raise
-use PvP skills
etc

DD's:
-Get a bonus if they survive over a minute
-Don't die
-Do x amount of DPS
-Land a killing blow
etc


Tanks:
-Using Protective Moves (including Stuns etc)
-Doing x amount of DPS
-Lasting over a minute
-Not dying
etc

By not only rewarding the winning team, but also individual effort, you will get more people interested in PvP, more people in the solo queues, and potentially shorten how many rounds people with losing records but decent skills would have to do.

Furthermore, this would maybe make people less likely to bot and wintrade because with a system like this, effort matters (for both the winners and losers) for the best potential exp.

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So just another type of idea to help the situation. Also, it'd potentially make it more fun, and take less time. No extra Wolf Marks as a reward would be necessary ...but allowing players to level just a wee bit faster based on both their team AND individual skills would be more rewarding. I see no reason why the leveling should take 1000's and 1000's of matches....if anything, it's the gear that should be the grind-fest....as it would keep people interested in playing.....AND even though they were 'max rank', they'd still feel as though their character was growing through the gear improvements.

As it is obvious, the only way to reduce the queue times is to increase the number of players. And the way to do that is to introduce gimmicks that would invite more people to play PVP.
Unless we get more people to play, queue times will always be the same.

Now since we're in the business with suggestions. Maybe some of you can make suggestions on how to entice more people to do PVP. I don't think the unlocking of all abilities at Rank 1 is working. Casual players who did a few PVP back are still not interested despite the changes from latest patch we thought was good.

So I'll stand by what I said before. Make PVP more rewarding. A lot of players were excited with the looks of r40 gear, most of them tried to do some PVP because of this. But when they found out that it would need thousands of wins before you could wear these, they lost interest and decided that it's not worth it, and thus never did PVP again. Therefore, we're back again to the old problem of not enough players in PVP, which again results to longer queue times.

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Originally Posted by Epistane

1. Put all datacenters together? In order to fix queues (not sure how this will work, I remember someone saying that if they do this it will just make server instances more laggy/buggy/etc?) correct me if I'm wrong

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I'm not sure, but I thought different datacenters mean different hardware. If I remember correctly, a single hardware cannot handle all of the instances, that's why they separated them into different hardware.
Now, if SE would make a datacenter dedicated to PVP, I imagine instances would take longer as data has to be transferred to PVP datacenter. And of course additional datacenter would mean additional hardware and additional cost.
Let's just admit that SE doesn't really care about PVP in this game. I find it hard to believe that they are making an effort to spend just to improve PVP.

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Originally Posted by Epistane

2. Remove matchmaking (not sure how this will work either, it's pretty much made queues worse for higher ranks but I guess it's helped out the lower ranks somewhat?)

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Of course this benefits higher ranks only. Newbies are again back to their losing ways. Another one sided suggestion IMO.

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As it is obvious, the only way to reduce the queue times is to increase the number of players. And the way to do that is to introduce gimmicks that would invite

more people to play PVP.
Unless we get more people to play, queue times will always be the same.

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There is quite a lot of people playing now. Everyday I'm playing pvp a good few hours, and though I see the same people, it usually takes around 6/7 (on a good day) games or so to see them again, all the while we're both doing games every 5-10 mins. When 2.2 (or whatever it was) hit when the matchmaking was first implemented the queue times were insane (I'd say one game every 40-90 mins), and you'd see the same people every second game or so. The new armors and pvp skill changes have really brought a lot of people back to pvp. The only thing holding pvp back now is the messed up match making system.

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Of course this benefits higher ranks only. Newbies are again back to their losing ways. Another one sided suggestion IMO.

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No it isn't. The matchmaking system is broken and has been since implementation. Regardless of rank, you will constantly be paired with low rank members. I am high ranked and the vast majority of my games are with beginners. All the matchmaking system does is increase both of our queues. And not to mention it bugs out over and over and over. This happens to everyone regularly, and they sit in queues for 30 mins wondering why they can't get a game.. thinking pvp is not active atm, when it's actually in prime time.

I try to play 20-40 matches each day.
1/10 games are with high rank or similar than me. I am rank 24.

9/10 are with low rank or haven't got rank 20

The most i see is randoms player earns the achievement "Hungry Like a Wolf I”

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Originally Posted by rappa

I try to play 20-40 matches each day.
1/10 games are with high rank or similar than me. I am rank 24.

9/10 are with low rank or haven't got rank 20

The most i see is randoms player earns the achievement "Hungry Like a Wolf I”

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Whenever I play I usually get queued with a healer and it's his first match =( , then the other side gets a rank 40 healer ( fellow primal dcers know who Im talking about ) to balance out the ranks QQ

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Originally Posted by tehomegaking

When 2.2 (or whatever it was) hit when the matchmaking was first implemented the queue times were insane (I'd say one game every 40-90 mins), and you'd see the same people every second game or so. The new armors and pvp skill changes have really brought a lot of people back to pvp. The only thing holding pvp back now is the messed up match making system.

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No, the simple fact is/was the overwhelming majority of the population of players in this game is/was not interested in wolves den pvp from the moment they tried out a few matches when 2.1 hit.
When 2.2 hit this was aggravated by the fact that new pve content came out and even people who usually pvped didn't bother to pvp anymore as they were:
1- Too busy with pve stuff.
2- Waiting for 2.25, which was supposed to be "big pvp patch" to come out.
When 2.25 came out, the increase in people pvping again was highly noticeable by the fact that the queue came back from the dead(for a while it got really active), which alone proves that it isn't the matchmaking that's broken.
And now again, 2.28 came out, people were getting instant queues. Of course if you are higher rank than the average population(which isn't really that big a average) you'll get slower queue times as there isn't that many players to put against you to make a fair match.

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Originally Posted by tehomegaking

Regardless of rank, you will constantly be paired with low rank members. I am high ranked and the vast majority of my games are with beginners.

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Of course if there aren't enough people within your rank it tries to even out the average between the 2 competing groups meaning that high rank players will often get paired with low rank ones, this is the basis of matchmaking......

And yeah it bugs out, but it bugged out way before matchmaking was introduced. Now it just seems worse cause you're high rank and since there's less of us we get the short stick until more people rank up.

Simple solution(to crappy high rank queues ): Make the middle(20s and i90) rank and gear,as i90 and r20s is still highly competitive vs i100 and r30s while the latter still has a decent advantage, way more accessible so we don't have to deal with long queues only to get gimped players 60%+ of the time.

I'd be more willing to play PVP correctly if it wasn't such a crapshoot whether I'd win or lose. Sometimes I get paired up against folks my level, sure. But go figure a good portion of folks playing PVP are folks who play PVP often, and are decked out in rank 40 gear. And considering the rewards get shafted to hell on a loss, playing catch up just seems impossible really.