Thief/Assassin/Rogue/Ninja Class

I think the mentioned class above in title are the one of the most anticipated classes that players are waiting for. I personally love sneaking around, and doing behind target DPS. Coating your weapons in poison or paralyze potions. So my question is how do you think Square Enix will implement this class? I personally feel they are going to build it upon and around the Thief class in FFXI, which I do not mind, But I hope they can take stuff from other mmorpgs, and make hide a 30 second cool down, and add weapon coating, Backstab, I know a lot of people will hate this but I really loved how WoW did rogue, and I hope SE really looks at that, and takes notes from that.

Because FFXIV is no longer FFXI a slower paced game play, it is fast paced, and thief needs to be fast paced, and not slow paced like in 11. The class should start out weak and then become on of the best single-mob DPSes. Some more questions, what classes are you guys looking forward to? and why, an how should they implement the class in this game, remember you have to think of the moves, and how they will be implemented into the class and game. Like Blue mage, sorry to say I just don't see how this class would work in this game, without being very restricted, or being over powered. I mean I guess they could do it similar to 11, and restrict how many stunning attacks or threat attacks, and let you set up if you want to be tank, dd, or healer.

I mean it could be interesting. But they would have to limit moves like say how bombs get berserk and another mob has an ability that is the same as berserk but a different name, maybe make it only allow being able to use one of those abilities. I don't know, Im looking forward to talking and learning your opinions and what not

As long as there is no stealth It will work. Imo stealth mechanisms end up being gamebreaking at pvp in several games. GW1 followed an interesting model for the assassin role, shadowsteps and high speed, which basically focus on what an assassin in game should work. Get in, kill your target, get out fast.
Emphasizing in why I am against stealth allow me to bring this simple analogy. Rock(plate), paper(casters), scissors(assassins). Paper kills rock, and scissors kill paper, but rock who should kill scissors, can't. Because rock can't find scissors :).

First off, you can break the 1k character limit via editing. Reading 3 separate posts that are supposed to be a single one (especially when said posts aren't even broken into paragraphs) is just annoying.

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Originally Posted by Sethorus

As long as there is no stealth It will work.

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This I agree with for much the same reason though I'll mention that it also has a tendency to break PvE somewhat as well (mainly by allowing the stealther to skip pretty much anything and everything they don't feel like fighting). Stealth only exists in game as a DoL ability for good reason: they're not a combat class but they run around where there are often enemies so they need to be able to explicitly avoid combat to do their jobs. Combat classes don't show the same need because they're supposed to kill the stuff they get into combat with (and picking fights rather than avoiding them).

Stealth/combat avoidance is, however, something of a trademark capability of the THF/NIN in the FF series as well as across MMOs in general, so I doubt there will be nothing reminiscent of true stealth. I would expect them to have an ability that causes them to disappear/vanish for short periods of time (5-10 seconds; until they attack, of course) that acts as their enmity drop (but not complete enmity drop) and possibly a DPS CD of some kind (first attack is auto-crit). The CD and short duration would prevent PvP abuse, the lack of a complete enmity drop prevents it from being your "lol, out of combat" card, and the explicit combat benefit gives you a reason to use it more than once in a blue moon (enmity dropping/management is largely unneeded because tanks can simply generate so much so easily).

In general, I really do expect it to follow a similar general playstyle as MNK and DRG: dancing around between back and flank to maximize damage. MNK already manages pretty fast paced combat (GL reduces their GCD significantly) so I'm pretty sure it'll follow a similar model, only with standard combos and more burst. I'm confident we'll get Steal/Mug but I sincerely doubt that it will actually provide loot instead of some variety of unique resource management. I've actually got a THF/NIN build in my signature that basically lays out largely what I expect to see (the rest of the thread gets pretty deep into discussion on the top).

I grew up in FFXI as WHM in 2005. I became a NIN in 2008, then COR in 2009. While going back to WHM in 2010, COR was my go-to job during serious play while using WHM as needed.

That being said, I'd like COR in FFXIV, but I doubt it will be the same, like how BRD is different in both games. If COR does remain the same or close (I felt WHM played the same), I'll be all for it.

I liked RNG as well, but playing as BRD and RNG led me to becoming a COR.

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Originally Posted by Sethorus

Emphasizing in why I am against stealth allow me to bring this simple analogy. Rock(plate), paper(casters), scissors(assassins). Paper kills rock, and scissors kill paper, but rock who should kill scissors, can't. Because rock can't find scissors :).

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Oh that reminds me of that video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXX8URSUWm0

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Originally Posted by Kitru

I've actually got a THF/NIN build in my signature that basically lays out largely what I expect to see (the rest of the thread gets pretty deep into discussion on the top).

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I finished reading through this and several of your responses on the thread, and am a bit conflicted:
- If Thief were Ninja's base class, would the dependence on steal motif (which I can't see as turning into anything but a class-unique resource) fit into Ninja (and its 'ninja tools') without overcrowding and overshadowing Ninja's own mechanics?
- How do most people want the sort of layering to Ninja combat (ramp up, CD deployment, burst capability, drain capability, DoT capability, number of burst abilities and specials, ability dependence, ability sequencing) to work, and does that differ from what they'd imagine for Thief?
- If Thief isn't the second job, stemming from "Scout" or "Rogue", what should be? Frankly Dancer stemming from Thief just seems outright awkward to me (though this may be due to more unique mechanics and gameplay I'd already daydreamed about for that job), though the same could probably be said for any other single FFXIV class it would come from... Yet Assassin runs the same risk of seeming very similar to Ninja (and thereby Thief), sacrificing only perhaps some AoE dps, magic and defensive capabilities, etc. for additional single-target damage, perhaps some use of particular banes or breaks, or poisons.

This would make one job or the other likely lackluster, but on the other hand I don't think every job will differentiate itself from the opposite job or class's role any time soon. We're probably not going to see a tank from any of the dps classes, and any dps class stemming from tanks would probably be no more than disfunctional "heavy" hybrids. That's just where the class-->job system and our very much tank-and-spank gamestyle put us.

I think the dagger class may start as Thief or Rogue, with some melee-based abilities like steal MP/HP, along with a number of debuffs/DOTs, and can graduate into either:

Ninja:

Water Ball- Deals bludgeoning water damage with a potency of 170, Adds Silence for 3 seconds (Ranged, up to 30 yalms. Cooldown: 40 seconds)
Fire blade- Deals piercing/fire damage with a potency of 40, Continual Fire damage with a potency of 20 for 22 seconds. (Raged, up to 30 yalms. Cooldown: 3 seconds)
Shuriken- Deals unaspected slashing damage to target with a potency of 150, Reduces DEX and MND for 15 seconds (Ranged, up to 30 yalms. Cooldown: 85 seconds)
Shadow State- Become invisible for 8 seconds and lose all enmity, attacking or getting damaged by AOE will end invisibility, next successful attack will deal an additional 20% damage (This ends auto-attack until invisibility ends. Cooldown: 200 Seconds)

OR Assassin:

Premeditation: Increases evade by 40% for 12 seconds. (Cooldown: 60 seconds)
Exact strikes: Increases Crit% by 60% for 15 seconds. (Cooldown: 85 Seconds)
Pile Venom: All DOT and debuff timers inflicted by user on single target are refreshed. (ranged ability, up to 15 yalms. Cooldown: 40 Seconds) --This is based on the base Rogue class having a number of debuffs
Smoke Bomb: Casts Blind to all enemies in a 5 yalm radius and teleport 15 yalms behind your current location. (Blind duration: 10 seconds. Cooldown: 30 seconds)

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Originally Posted by Dixon

OR Assassin:

Premeditation: Increases evade by 40% for 12 seconds. (Cooldown: 60 seconds)
Exact strikes: Increases Crit% by 60% for 15 seconds. (Cooldown: 85 Seconds)
Pile Venom: All DOT and debuff timers inflicted by user on single target are refreshed. (ranged ability, up to 15 yalms. Cooldown: 40 Seconds) --This is based on the base Rogue class having a number of debuffs
Smoke Bomb: Casts Blind to all enemies in a 5 yalm radius and teleport 15 yalms behind your current location. (Blind duration: 10 seconds. Cooldown: 30 seconds)

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That sounds like a Monk on steroids with a little bit of Summoner and Dragoon in his drug cocktail.

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Originally Posted by Dixon

Exact strikes: Increases Crit% by 60% for 15 seconds. (Cooldown: 85 Seconds)

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Are you serious?

You think this is remotely balanced/appropriate how?

So change the %. This is not a change to the actual damage, but the chance of crit.

That or put ninja under pug. Then do a class call Rouge and place thief as the job.

Or take the traditional Final Fantasy approach and do Thief => Ninja

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Originally Posted by Exstal

Or take the traditional Final Fantasy approach and do Thief => Ninja

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Thats not a Traditional approach, I can only think of one FF in the series where a Thief would turn into a Ninja.

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Originally Posted by Atreides

Thats not a Traditional approach, I can only think of one FF in the series where a Thief would turn into a Ninja.

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That's mainly because there aren't direct class/job upgrades in most FFs. The upgrades are indirect in order to prevent turning any given job absolutely obsolete. With only a single exception (FFVI; Shadow and Locke), in every instance of an FF with both thief and ninja, the ninja either requires levels in thief (the Tactics games) and acts as an upgrade (similar stats but better) or shares a similar stat distribution that is simply better (thief is fast, evasive, and hits reasonably hard; ninja is faster, hard to hit, more durable, and hits harder).

The only reason that ninja is an explicit upgrade to thief in only 1 game is because, in that game (the first game), once you get ninja, you can no longer access thief. Because you still have access to said class, there should still be some reason for you to use said class (which is also why you see no significant ability overlap; there is some spell overlap, but only in cases where the categories are meant to have specific value: red mage overlaps with both white mage and black mage but renders neither redundant by not being able to access higher level spells; summoner has spells that are significantly stronger than black mage spells but does not render black mage redundant thanks to high mp costs preventing the same prevalence of use).

Furthermore, thief and ninja fulfill both the same niche (rapid stealthy attacker using light weapons) while using what amount to the same weapons (ninja blades are effectively upgraded daggers restricted only to ninja).

The only way that we're going to get both thief and ninja (in recognizable forms) is if thief is the class and ninja is the job. We're not going to get 2 classes because they would be too similar, and we're not going to be getting them as 2 jobs off of the same class because they're both DPS jobs (and the 5 abilities you get from a job are not sufficient to significantly distinguish the gameplay of one from the other; you'd end up with 2 jobs that are 95% the same, which basically renders one redundant and, as such, developmentally inefficient).

I really miss sneak attack trick attack. Why can't we have some of those old fun abilities put in?

I said this in a thread a little while ago and still stand by it:

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Originally Posted by MartaDemireux

I could see both Thief and Ninja coming from the same class, like others said likely Rogue or Scout.

I would put my gil on saying Ninja will be a DPS utilizing water magic (staple in the series), some sort of ranged attack via Throw (another staple, Thancred also showed us this ability), a poison or a blind (ninjas would do that IRL), the electrifying AoE attack (Yugiri showed us) and perhaps a buff/stance that added or enhanced a mechanic to their attacks. They would probably focus on attacking from behind for higher potency or combos like in the 2.2 cutscenes.

Thief could function as either a support DPS like Bard or perhaps even more likely as a tank. If someone steals from you, you don't like them. That would be a good theme to make them a tank. They could steal enmity from others and perhaps steal an enemy's energy for "charges" to use with other abilities. They could also charm and attract the monsters attention. On the other hand they could be a support DPS by stealing enmity from one player and putting it on another. They could focus on big burst damage like Dragoon. I could see them also stealing buffs and perhaps making use of them. Maybe a mechanic where they dispel a buff but if they do it a certain way, like from behind, they can get the exact buff for a short amount of time. Or, perhaps it activates other abilities or changes the effects of some abilities. They could potentially also steal a target's TP for their own use.

For the base class I would expect there to be an ability that is similar to DoL's stealth but with a short duration and for there to be attacks that capitalize on this ability to deal extra damage or even negate enmity generated. Both Thieves and Ninjas like to operate in the shadows and both had ways to make themselves invisible in XI.

As far as Thief as a class leading into Ninja: I greatly disagree. As we have seen from current classes not one of them shares a name with a traditional FF job. I expect that to continue. It was only in FF1 where Thief upgraded directly into Ninja and if we go by those standards then Warrior would have gone into Paladin. Thief in the rest of the series has always had a separate identity from Ninja when they appeared together. Thief has also varied quite a bit depending on the game much like Scholar did so this is a great place to give it another identity of its own in a similar fashion.

Examples of THF's variance:
FFI: Can escape from battles.
FFIII: Can now steal.
FFV: Can now mug (attack while stealing), boost movement speed and detect hidden passages.
FFX-2: Can now steal MP, HP, inflict Berserk and Stop status effects and force the enemy to run.
FFXI: Can now transfer enmity of own attacks to another player, steal enmity from other players, steal buffs from enemies, inflict Terror and focuses on quick critical multi-hits.
FFT: Can now steal a units equipment and EXP as well as inflict Charm.
FFTA: Can now counter attacks, steal abilities directly from the enemy for use and prevent the theft and damage of your own equipment.
FFTA2: Same as FFTA but with the ability to steal the units Smash Gauge, a new battle mechanic.
FF4HoL: Can now steal from multiple enemies at once and gains an instant death ability.
BDFF: Can now convert their speed into an attack that ignores defense and recovers it's own HP when stealing an item.

So with that variance I could most certainly see a tank coming in the form of Thief in FFXIV. Throughout its history it's always had a focus of stealing but always had something different. A combination of HP/TP stealing, Terror/Stop (could function as Stun here), AoE stealing (for enmity), Berserk/Charm (could function as a provoke), countering attacks, stealing a party member's enmity and burst damage could make for an interesting tank. Evasion tanking is tough to balance though but it could potentially be done with a stance that allows the build of charges gained with stealing actions to either mitigate damage or evade it.

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Essentially what I expect:

Rogue/Scout (DPS):
Stealth/Hide (PvP: blocked out or have very short duration)
Attacks focus on hitting from behind. Fast, critical hitter.
Buffs to evasion.
Steal & Swipe but won't steal items. Perhaps used in mechanic for other abilities or temporary potions. Only usable while in stealth.
Accomplice - equalize the enmity of you and another player.
Flee - increased movement speed, stacks with sprint but not with Swiftsong.

Ninja (DPS):
30: Throw - Ranged attack.
35: Blitz - AoE lightning damage.
40: Water Veil - Ranged water damage and silence.
45: Smoke Bomb - Ranged damage and Blind.
50: Mirage/Utsusemi - Buff that allows your back attack bonuses to be applied at any direction. Allows short duration of stealth while in combat. Bonus damage while in stealth.

Thief (Tank):
30: Vigilance: Tank enmity/mitigation stance. Allows counter-attacks. Changes some class abilities to generate enmity. Adds a mechanic to theft type abilities and can be used while not in stealth. Steal upgrades to Mug, Swipe to Pillage for increased enmity and added damage. Accomplice takes some of the other players enmity and adds it to your own etc.
35: Life Steal/Pilfer HP: Steals HP from target. High enmity.
40: Detect: Anticipates attacks for reduced/nullified damage.
45: Larceny: Steal an active buff from target. If no buff steals TP and deals critical damage. High enmity.
50: Perfect Dodge: Long cooldown 100% mitigation.

Thief varied a lot in other games so it can be changed significantly in this one like they did with Scholar.

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Originally Posted by Insidious

I really miss sneak attack trick attack. Why can't we have some of those old fun abilities put in?

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There will be a sneak attack most likely. Thief/Ninja will be about burst DPS. The point of the job will be take down your foes fast and hard but if you drag it out you will lose. So yes to stealth and yes to shadowstep and yes to poison applying to weapons.

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Originally Posted by BigBoss3237

There will be a sneak attack most likely. Thief/Ninja will be about burst DPS. The point of the job will be take down your foes fast and hard but if you drag it out you will lose. So yes to stealth and yes to shadowstep and yes to poison applying to weapons.

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In before SE makes it so that you just do debuffs only. No stealth involved.

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Originally Posted by MartaDemireux

Thief varied a lot in other games so it can be changed significantly in this one like they did with Scholar.

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The thief archetype hasn't really changed all that much across any game. They're always fast, high damage fighters with moderate survivability derived largely from evasion and some degree of stealth or other type of combat avoidance mechanism. You're basically creating an entirely different from what the actual archetype of thief (and is, honestly, antithetical to thief: you're making them explicitly insist upon being looked at *which makes no sense whatsoever*).

There is only one line of thought that would lead you to turn thief into a tank, predicated upon 2 central conceits: the knowledge that the devs are damned well not going to let NIN be a tank, and absolute insistence that THF be implemented as a job instead of a class.

Thief makes absolutely *no* sense as a tank. Thief has *never* been a durable class and has actually excelled at *getting out of combat*. NIN has actually been tankier because it's had higher hp and better evasion so acting as if, because NIN isn't going to be a tank, it makes sense for THF to be a tank makes absolutely no sense. It's absolutely ludicrous for THF to be a tank, even moreso than NIN.

I have said it time and time and time again: we're going to get either THF or NIN as a job, and the only way we're going to get both THF and NIN in game is if THF is the base class for NIN. Any other possible implementation is either redundant (2 diff classes, 2 jobs of the same role off of the same class) or completely absurd (either one being something other than a DPS).

Well thief can be a class for rogue and ninja be a class for assassin

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Originally Posted by BigBoss3237

Well thief can be a class for rogue and ninja be a class for assassin

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Why?http://static.ak.fbcdn.net/images/blank.gif

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Originally Posted by Exstal

Why?http://static.ak.fbcdn.net/images/blank.gif

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He is just following the same logic others have been putting here, making Thief the class and Ninja the job is just as bad as the example you questioned just now.
They haven't used a single classic job name for a class yet and I don't think they start with it now.
All we can do for now is speculate, maybe we know more when E3 starts, I'm looking forward for it.
I for one don't want to be Naruto but I do look forward for Thief.

This is what I was thinking:

Rogue be the class and have Ninja and Thief be the jobs that rogues can turn into

Ninjas will focus on AGI and be more stealthy and use more poison applying and maybe have a weaker version back stab or sneak attack or trick attack, and be more focused on DoTs, the ability to lose enmity by going into the shadows.

Thiefs will focus on DEX and be more apt for burst damage, longer stealth cool downs, being able to steal and mug, and shadow step to get behind target, and enmity transfer like with trick attack.


With this it would split the OP of rogue class in the other mmorpgs, granted id prefer the all in one class. but this would be the more balanced approach.

That would make them a ranged class which is very unlikely concidering we also get Gun using job aswell.
Dex = ranged damage.
Str = melee damage.
It's very likely that the Dagger class will work with Strenght.

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Originally Posted by Kitru

NIN has actually been tankier because it's had higher hp and better evasion so acting as if, because NIN isn't going to be a tank, it makes sense for THF to be a tank makes absolutely no sense. It's absolutely ludicrous for THF to be a tank, even moreso than NIN.

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Quick Key: Tankier, Offensier, Tied.

FFIII: THF - STR 63, AGI 99, VIT 63; NIN - STR 71, AGI 85, VIT 52. Tankier? THF. Offensier? NIN.

FFV: THF -STR +1, AGI +16, STA +2, MAG -6; NIN -STR +15, AGI +14, STA +3, MAG -10. Tankier? Tied. Offensier? NIN.

FFVI: Locke -STR 37, SPD 40, STA 31, MAG 28, ATK 14, DEF 46, EVA 15%, MDEF 23, MEVA 2%, HP Gain 48; Shadow - STR 39, SPD 38, STA 30, MAG 33, ATK 23, DEF 47, EVA 28%, MDEF 25, MEVA 9%, HP Gain 51. Tankier? Shadow (Gear: Locke). Offensier? Shadow.

FFXI (@75): THF - STR 56, DEX 70, AGI 65, VIT 56, INT 61, MND 44, CHR 44, EVA A+; NIN - STR 61, DEX 65, AGI 65, VIT 61, INT 56, MND 44, CHR 48, EVA A-. Tankier? Tied (Moveset: NIN). Offensier? Tied (Moveset: THF).

FFT: THF - SPD 9, HP Medium, ATK Medium, MAG Low, EVA 25%; NIN - SPD 10, HP Low, ATK High, MAG Medium, EVA 30%. Tankier? THF. Offensier? NIN.

FFTA: THF - HP 5.8, ATK 7.3, DEF 8.4, MAG 6.8, RES7.6, SPD 1.9; NIN -HP 5.8, ATK 8.4, DEF 7.2, MAG 8.1, RES7.6, SPD 2.1. Tankier? THF. Offensier? NIN.

FFTA2: THF - HP D, ATK E, DEF E, MAG E, RES F; NIN - HP E, ATK C, DEF F, MAG E. RES E. Tankier? THF. Offensier? NIN.

BDFF: THF - HP C, STR C, INT E, DEX S, VIT C, MND E, AGI S; NIN - HP C, STR B, INT C, DEX A, VIT D, MND C, AGI S. Tankier? THF (Moveset: NIN). Offensier? NIN (Moveset: THF).

Based on the above we can see that using stats alone THF has been sturdier in most occurrences and NIN has been stronger. The only FF's in which NIN is a direct improvement to THF in all areas are FFI and FFVI. The times where NIN beats out THF as a tank via movesets number 2. In one case their stats are essentially tied for tanking and the other THF wins in the stats alone. In both instances it is possible to sub skills from the other job leading both to tank effectively. In the one instance where the ninja (Shadow) outclasses the thief (Locke) in both areas the thief can pull ahead in tanking via gear possibilities.

Since THF has historically had abilities called "Mug," "Bully," "Vigilance," "Accomplice," "Collaborator," "Counter," "Steal Limelight," and "Shake Down," we could derive the theory that in a group they have accomplices whom they collaborate with to bully, mug, and shake down their targets. This results in them stealing the limelight (getting attention) in battle but that's no worry for them as they are vigilant and can dexterously evade and counter the attacks with their own.

Also as far as thievery goes in the real world, being up close and personal with a group is an often occurrence. It's generally only when the thief is alone will they worry about being sneaky and sly escapists. When their friends are with them they'll often take what they want straight on. In the game we can apply this to playing solo in the class or without the stance to sneak around with stealth abilities and escaping danger with flee and then playing in a party where you can gang up on the enemy.

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Originally Posted by Kitru

I have said it time and time and time again: we're going to get either THF or NIN as a job, and the only way we're going to get both THF and NIN in game is if THF is the base class for NIN.

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Unless you show *proof* that you work for SE's dev team you can say *anything* you wish to and it will *only* be *speculation* just like the rest of us. You *speculate* time and time and time again that THF and NIN will not both be jobs.

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Originally Posted by Atreides

That would make them a ranged class which is very unlikely concidering we also get Gun using job aswell.
Dex = ranged damage.
Str = melee damage.
It's very likely that the Dagger class will work with Strenght.

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They could potentially split Ninja into both via stance. STR for up close melee attacks and use a stance for DEX and INT based ranged attacks. Throw is a staple ability for Ninja, would love to see it utilized along with their water and lightning spells.

Steal is Thief's staple, but since getting loot through skill is just horribly imbalanced, I think their Steal will be more along Siphons: Steal Power, Steal Magic, stuff like that.

Ninja should NOT, by any means necessary, gain visual Invisibility. Instead, they should focus on dealing a flurry of low-damages at high speed, relying on procs such as critical to deal their damage. In short, they're monks with lower TP consumption, lower skill CD, and lower damage per strike, resulting in overall similar damage output, but with more chances of something to proc in between, resulting in higher potential.

Ninja may very well have Stealth, but it'd be for opening strike OR to reduce / outright lose enmity.

Ninja's HP would be lower, but with higher chance to evade. This will make Ninja a curse in Titans where Tumult will make healers' life even harder, but a boon in fights with evade-able skills such as Garuda's attacks. Not that it'd make much difference when you get Shrieked

Why is is so imbalanced that a job gets stealth? You guys are acting like omg it wouldn't be fair they can go ahead in a dungeon. They wouldn't have to do anything. That's not true, a true ninja/thief job will have invisibility. And some kind of shadowstep and backstab. It's not like a 10 to 15 second stealth with a 30 second cool down will hurt. Have a set of skills that only work in stealth also

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Originally Posted by BigBoss3237

Why is is so imbalanced that a job gets stealth? You guys are acting like omg it wouldn't be fair they can go ahead in a dungeon. They wouldn't have to do anything. That's not true, a true ninja/thief job will have invisibility. And some kind of shadowstep and backstab. It's not like a 10 to 15 second stealth with a 30 second cool down will hurt. Have a set of skills that only work in stealth also

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Not stealth. Steal. If you can steal from mobs, that provides an explicit economical advantage that other classes can't get. Unless, whatever you steal is normally dropped by the mob anyway. For example, you are farming Karakuls. They drop fleece, you steal a fleece but then you don't get a drop because you already stole the fleece. But that would be pointless.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

Not stealth. Steal. If you can steal from mobs, that provides an explicit economical advantage that other classes can't get. Unless, whatever you steal is normally dropped by the mob anyway. For example, you are farming Karakuls. They drop fleece, you steal a fleece but then you don't get a drop because you already stole the fleece. But that would be pointless.

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If you look back a few posts they are indeed saying stealth.

The reasoning is that it would give an unfair advantage to PvP. Easy answer to that is to nerf the skill in PvP or block it out entirely.

Please they just give mage jobs a skill that can detect stealth characters. that's all. and Steal, they can do awesome things with that like a mob that you have to steal its weapon cause it can only be kills by throwing it at it

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Originally Posted by BigBoss3237

Please they just give mage jobs a skill that can detect stealth characters. that's all. and Steal, they can do awesome things with that like a mob that you have to steal its weapon cause it can only be kills by throwing it at it

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But then you run the course of requiring a class/job for certain content. That's never a good thing. It could be used in a mechanic of some sort though.

Look, so youd rather have a game where its just plain old DPS the crap outta things and win? or have more strategy based bosses.

I mean they can make a thief class for the duty finder so that's what ya need

It can have a lot of strategy within its own mechanics as a class/job. I would not want any one fight requiring a certain class/job. It would be perfect in a single player game but say they do your idea in this game but the class itself is one that no one actually enjoys playing. It would be near impossible to clear the content if no one was willing to play the class. It's bad enough requiring tanks and healers for content when people don't enjoy playing those as well but at least that is a role with multiple classes that some people could enjoy in spite of the role.

What you're describing would, in my opinion, be good in future job quests. Ninja's could force you to steal with the class ability and then throw with their job ability in order to progress the quest. Other job quests could use a particular mechanic as well.

I just feel that SE went the wrong way with making all the classes/jobs restricted in doing only one job. They could have put more into each class/job. A lot more. Instead they took a lot from ffxi obviously then a little bit from every semi to very successful MMORPG and said lets hope this works. Almost as if their afraid to do their own thing. Its almost like the game wants to break out and become its own game, but it cant. I love the game, but it just feels so damn restricted. Its like everything is on the verge of being amazing and then poof your like aww man. It saddens me that there is no Notorious Monsters, or Hunts or anything to get decent gear besides dungeons, quests, crafting, and vendors. There are no dungeon quests nor is there enough quests to sustain getting all your jobs to level 50. Instead of giving each race their own cities, and their own background it feels like a copy of ffxi. They need to break away from ffxi, this is a new mmorpg this is not ffxi ver. 2, They don't need to stay true to Final Fantasy lore, because guess what? Each FF is a new world, and new lore. I want them to not be afraid to reach out and try something new, I mean yeah its okay to have some old things, but don't base the whole game off of it. I want to see new experiences with the game, I want to see them try something new, that's why I want this thief, or ninja class to be amazing. I hope they experiment. Yeah people want balance, but as my favorite class/job has always been thief/rogue/assassin/ninja. its fun sneaking around, shadowstepping behind people then whooping their butts then going back into the shadows.

I want them to make a new class, new mechanics, and just go with it

Ya know, if they introduce the Throw mechanic, we might start seeing off-hand throwing weapons. Darts, knives, grenades...though I'm not sure how to implement Steal, which is iconically a Thief ability. Maybe Steal could be used on enemies to obtain any item they might drop, and remove rewards from killing them, giving Thieves the ability to yoink choice material and run the hell away. The only limiting factor would have to be that you either can't Steal in succession, the enemies become resistant to pilfering, or that the rewards quickly diminish.