This is not a demand but a plea.
I see small items granting in-game bonuses and the ventures coupled with additional retainers giving them a rather BIG advantage as some really nice items can drop from that and now they are getting 2 more per day, twice as much. This is PAY TO WIN; there is no escaping that. However as is it is minimal.
So to keep things from getting worse, and destroying my favorite game I have a suggestion; Sell Glamour items. A ton of level 1 nice looking items. Unique looking items at that, not just dyable versions of existing items, while that would also be nice.
This keeps the game play pure and allows you to make more money; because honestly if this game gets much more pay to win, I don't think I will be sticking around, and I think a lot of people here would probably agree.
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Its called time and gil management. The Retainers go out and do stuff on their own and bring back items on their own. These items can be rare and give the player more gill allowing them to spend time doing other things like leveling up classes giving them better Cross Class skills allowing them to beat T9. Its a round about way, but these extra 2 retainers DO help in T9. They effect the entire game. And if you can't get 8k seals per day, then I am not going to tell you :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Lyrinn
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My point of items that seem the most P2W is the Icarus Wing and Regain Feather. I never want to see these items ever again, or anything like it. I especially don't want to see them in the cash shop.
I just don't want things to go any further in this direction. I am not saying this is F2P anywhere here; I am saying I don't want greed to turn this game into a P2W and giving suggestions on ways for SE to making money while keeping the game subscription based.
This is not a thread proving what I said is true as to current content being P2W. This is a thread about making suggestions to SE on what they could do to keep the game making money, and more money with out effecting the challenge of the game. I will not post any more arguments on proving this game is going ever so slightly P2W any more, this is the wrong thread for that discussion.
How SE should make more money!
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05-29-2014, 02:32 AMBloodclawHow SE should make more money!
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05-29-2014, 02:34 AMWHS
How does this not make the game feel more like f2p? F2P shower the customer with ways to give the company more money. I have paid enough and do not want to pay anymore. Just want to enjoy what I have so far. Looking forward to patch 2.8.
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05-29-2014, 02:48 AMLyrinn
Do share what items retainers bring back that let you down T9. I want to see this P2W in action.
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05-29-2014, 03:00 AMmuwaMy retainers bring allagan coins I can sell for my T9 repairs, that's clearly P2W!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyrinn
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05-29-2014, 03:01 AMMoheeheekoThis, the only thing you can get to help in SCoB is stuff to make gil to get ilvl 90 crafted gear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyrinn
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05-29-2014, 03:03 AMCharismaCan you please tell me your source, for getting unlimited Venture currency?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodclaw
With 2 retainers u can use up all your Venture currency in no time, no 3rd or 4th retainer will give you any advantage at this point.
Also things like Fantasia, server changes and name changes, need to cost real money. I dont get how people see this as "first steps into P2W". -
05-29-2014, 03:06 AMQuizThat is next year sometime, how can you wait so long :oQuote:
Originally Posted by WHS
2.28 and 2.3 ftw though -
05-29-2014, 03:22 AMmuwaYou know you can buy ventures with grand company seals?Quote:
Originally Posted by Charisma
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05-29-2014, 03:25 AMNintenPyjak64Treasure maps give 20s at a time. My FC runs maps weekly and a few of us get quite a ton. Sitting on about 100+ right now so I shouldn't be running out for a whileQuote:
Originally Posted by Charisma
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05-29-2014, 03:29 AMCharismaAs long as you think farming company seals 12 hrs a day just to send off 4 retainers every hour is superior to actually farming content .. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by muwa
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05-29-2014, 03:39 AMBloodclaw
Wow, how quickly people jump to defend SE with out thinking about thing.
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05-29-2014, 03:40 AMNintenPyjak64
As long as it's vanity only, I'm totally for it. That's usually what I spent a majority of my money on in F2P MMOs. I love vanity/collectible systems too much
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05-29-2014, 03:48 AMFelis
I'm more for an online merchandise shop in europe
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05-29-2014, 03:55 AMBloodclawI am sorry but when did I say F2P?Quote:
Originally Posted by WHS
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05-29-2014, 04:01 AMCorfishEven if it is only Vanity, no. I bought the game, I'm paying the sub, I shouldn't have to spend more for special costumes. They should be obtainable in game, like most other pieces of gear. I'm okay with the occasional promotional item for real merchandise, but it should stop there.Quote:
Originally Posted by NintenPyjak64
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05-29-2014, 04:08 AMArrakI only have 3 retainers and 100 seals goes really quick. Technically I could spend up to 144 a day. Quick venture is where its at.Quote:
Originally Posted by NintenPyjak64
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05-29-2014, 04:15 AMRyansWow, how quick someone comes up with a ridiculous idea to "alleviate" the problems that they created in their own mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodclaw
Retainers bring nothing that actually help you in end game. Can you get some stuff to make money from? Sure. But what are you going to spend it on? Ilvl 90 gear is handed out from Brayflox and Coil 1-4 are pretty easy for the majority of players participating to farm. It's not defending SE, it's stating obvious rebuttals to a "cure" of a non-existent design flaw. -
05-29-2014, 04:27 AMBloodclawAdded question to OPQuote:
Originally Posted by Lyrinn
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05-29-2014, 04:37 AMBloodclawYou don't see how us as a fan and consumer might be groomed into thinking P2W is okay while thinking its not P2W? Fine then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryans
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05-29-2014, 04:45 AML-D-OmletteI'm still not seeing how this equals P2W. Everyone will get the necessary cross class skills eventually, and there is no gil threshold that determines when you get those skills. Even if I assume that another player gains a time advantage by using four retainers instead of two, that has no impact on my ability to clear T9. There is no prize for doing it before someone else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodclaw
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05-29-2014, 05:06 AMWelsper59
I'm sitting on over 12mil gil right now and have the extra 2 retainers. While I'm a Legacy player, I did start anew on Leviathan, so this is all from scratch. I can guarantee you that the extra 2 retainers have little to do with my gil acquisition. In fact, I can guarantee you that because of those extra 2 retainers, I've spent more time gearing them up (they're 50 from a while ago though) and gathering ventures coins or seals for coins than was probably worthwhile from any reasonable "P2W" system. The reason I still do it? It's fun to gamble with Quick Adventures, which being lv50 means next to nothing for.
Having the extra potential for selective goods I might need (like crystals) or an extremely low chance for decent/fun equipment is nice (I have SCH, DRG, and WHM mog weapon from QA, none of which I can use yet) but none of this really impacted what I'd do normally otherwise. I don't really use the extra retainers to sell stuff, at least not to the extent that I couldn't have done the same with my default ones (e.g. retainer 1: selling 12 items, retainer 2: selling 14 items, retainer 3: selling 5 items, retainer 4: selling 5 items, total of 36 items (less than 2 retainers worth)). They're honestly not as impacting as people might think they are. Yeah, they can provide you a low but steady income, but you're still spending venture coins and waiting for them to return to keep that up. I didn't get as much gil as I have now simply waiting for the game to give me it.
My point is that the extra 2 retainers provide little benefit to be even remotely considered a Pay 2 Win option. The amount of goods that I could get simply from the retainers, combined with an equivalent of time that a venture coin is worth, pales in comparison to what I'd get just doing what I normally do in a fraction of the time. -
05-29-2014, 05:15 AMBloodclawNot the subject at hand really.Quote:
Originally Posted by Welsper59
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05-29-2014, 05:17 AMMoheeheekoExcept there is NOTHING pay to win about 2 more retainers, not in the slightest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodclaw
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05-29-2014, 05:25 AMWelsper59You really should take out the P2W comments then from your original post. You're basically using extra retainers as a supportive argument to your idea that the game is moving to a P2W model. I do understand that you're saying you don't want that and that you're trying to provide non-advantage related idea for options, but that's something separate from the retainers bit. The replies about that, mines included, are shooting down your thought that retainers are P2W goods. They give an advantage, but I'd hardly consider it a "win" advantage, much less a worthwhile one (for that purpose). If, however, you're not using the extra retainers as a supportive argument, then why mention it? It's pushing a separate agenda and really weakens what you have to say as a whole.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodclaw
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05-29-2014, 05:29 AMNiwashiAbsolutely NOT. :mad: Going even further into a micro-transaction model is the absolute worst thing they could do. This is a subscription based game. Everything should be paid for by the subscriptions. That's their point. If they aren't high enough to cover costs (though I rather doubt that's the case), then the subscriptions themselves need to be raised until they do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodclaw
We should never have to buy stuff individually on a piecemeal basis in a subscription based game. Whether those extras are cosmetic, conveniences, or battle advantages is completely irrelevant to the issue, because those are all part of the game we're already paying for. (And cosmetics are P2W for everyone whose version of "winning" is getting the best looking equipment. It's as valid a playstyle as measuring "winning" by the amount of gil you have, or by the stats on your equipment.) -
05-29-2014, 05:35 AMAmberion^^- This so much. It's kind of sad that today, people only see MMORPG as fighting is everything in it.Quote:
(And cosmetics are P2W for everyone whose version of "winning" is getting the best looking equipment. It's as valid a playstyle as measuring "winning" by the amount of gil you have, or by the stats on your equipment.)
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05-29-2014, 05:50 AMIkeda
How about no and uh freaking NO. Cash shops have NO business being in a P2P mmo. Don't care if you think they "can" make more money. I'll guarantee you they'll lose more money in lost subscriptions over a double dipping cash shop than they'd ever make from the stupid thing. Adding any sort of cash shop vanity or otherwise will accomplish nothing but speed up how quickly the game has to dumb down to F2P due to lack of subscriptions. They're already giving us more vanity items with every event and major update than I've seen any other P2P mmo even attempt to give.
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05-29-2014, 05:54 AMKayo
IF! SE reeeeeally needs the money then id personally prefer they just merge and use the freed up servers for a couple COMPLETELY ISOLATED f2p servers. You can copy/transfer characters to them but its a one way street. Open the cash shop for those free servers, have some way for p2p servers to get them in game (if through gold, so be it). Everyone wins. I dont know about anyone else, but what some dude(ette) does/buys/pays2win in another server is no problem to me... may as well be another game theyre playing.
Why developers go full f2p or hybrid sometimes is beyond me... they could keep both sides happy like this. -
05-29-2014, 05:59 AMYumi_umi
They screwed up during the start of 2.2 when they allowed retainers to solo ex primals and T9.
Getting ex parts was one thing but getting a drop from T9 when no one has even cleared it ( back then ) was a pretty dumb move on SE's part.
That then resulted in ppl selling it for millions ( smart ppl ).
Ppl then bought it and that lucky player got a few millions for what, a couple of gil if you convert seals into gil ratio.
Luck like that was bogus and made no sense at all.
So if ppl had 4 retainers that'd = to 2 more chances in recieving that fragment drop.
Other than that there's really no P2W atm. -
05-29-2014, 06:10 AMRose_Vilehart
I dont see any P2W yet.........then again i just came here from gw2 and that has a cash shop and i still dont consider that p2w (mostly because the gear grind to ascended is a month at most) so maybe i just have a bad eye for these things......
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05-29-2014, 06:52 AMBloodclawBull, any time you pay for ANY benefit it effects the entire game making it easier. Even the special head gear from the special edition is P2W as it gives you an EXP bonus till 10th level. So you are wrong and there is nothing else left to it other than you and everyone else's fan craze defense of SE.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moheeheeko
Just because it is P2W doesn't mean it needs to be game breaking or drastic, but it is still there. -
05-29-2014, 06:55 AMMoheeheeko
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05-29-2014, 07:01 AMRose_VilehartAnd? those things are tiny and as long as we voice to have them not put any more P2W things in the game it will be ok :/ at least its better than your solution which is to add MORE microtransactions into the gameQuote:
Originally Posted by Bloodclaw
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05-29-2014, 07:04 AMBarboron
No, that is all.
SE has been making money far longer, they also have more experience to say why this may or may not work or even be the optimal solution.
Sure they can make more money...in the short term, but if you go and watch some of the interviews with Yoshi-P, he mentions sticking with the subscription service as it is a long-term investment. Switching to cash shops and/or micro-transactions on top of a subscription service, will cause SE to lose a lot of trust in their fan-base. Something Yoshi-P was quite proud to have restored after the disappointment that was 1.0.
TL;DR: no -
05-29-2014, 07:05 AMRose_VilehartYes to this postQuote:
Originally Posted by Barboron
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05-29-2014, 07:58 AMNinix
Or, since we all pay $11-15 a month for the damn game already, how about they continue releasing glamour items for free in content patches like they have been?
I don't see how just because an item is "cosmetic", it makes it any better for them to sell them to players who are already paying a monthly sub for the game. I pay $15 a month precisely to avoid this kind of thing. I want access to all of the content without having to additional fees... this counts for cosmetic stuff just as much as other forms of content. -
05-29-2014, 10:11 AMShinkuTachiYou can do more than FATEing for seals. For example, when farming BL (hard), Halatali (hard), The Lost City of Amdapor, and even earlier dungeons; you can trade all those gear drops for GC seals. That's what I do personally.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charisma