[Suggestion] FC Retainer

It will be great FC itself can hire retainers, to help FC make the Gil needed for housing and all the rest. Gil from sells go directly to coffer.

In respect to your FC retainer, it will not work too well because why would I want to sell good stuff with FC retainer to all goes to the FC, when I need to be making the gils for myself?

Better to implement a simple tax system, where the FC can set their tax rate on all the gils given by the game as rewards. IE: Earned 4k from quest, 2% goes to FC.

jc

Rather sell stuff in the FC retainer i donate the gil, than having a tax that take away the gil i earn without my permision...

Why don't you just make a voluntary donation for every sale your retainer have?

I have a retainer devoted specifically to FC items. Once I sell the items, I put the gil into the FC chest (plus a little extra because I like the total being a nice even number). I like having a devoted retainer because it helps me keep track of exactly what belongs to the FC, and what I personally own. I specifically purchased two extra retainers to make this process easier (three for me, one for FC). One of the officers of my FC has also devoted a retainer to selling FC items (drops from FC fundraising map runs, materia that comes from FC-funded SBing, and basically any items other people donate -- such as the myth items that are still worth a pretty penny). Of course, this requires really trusting people to 'do the right thing'. But... then again, you have to already place your trust in your FC leader and anyone else who has direct access to gil.

This is a nice idea because it allows more items to be listed on the market, increases competition and also allows players another option on how to contribute to a FC. It's a great optional way for players that don't often have much tangible gil or who don't like dealing with the market a way to help their FCs.

LOL, back to blowing my own horn, tax system works, it is as plain and simple as that.

1. It is fair, everyone pays the same rate within the FC (However, FC A may only tax 5% while FC B taxes 8%, but that is up to the FC).
2. It is already in place for the market, SE just needs to redirect the funding they already take out from sale and purchase transactions.
3. SE will need to add an additional layer to processing the taxation in term of quest/FATE/Levs, but the truth is, they already have the coding in place to do that as well, since SE already keep track of FC credits from those activities.
4. No worries about who is cheating the FC out of their funds, and having to rely on players' own royalty to their FC.

BTW, for some reason I do not believe the FC retainer is more about making gils for the FC, but really hoping for more inv space. To sell items to the market, SE can simply allow FCs to sell their items from the company chest.

jc

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Originally Posted by AttacKat

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1. It is fair, everyone pays the same rate within the FC (However, FC A may only tax 5% while FC B taxes 8%, but that is up to the FC).
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For above idea, I suggest different ranks should have different rates.
ie, master 60% tax, officer 20% tax, member 5% tax.
ofcoz it will be customizable and eventually a lot of FC will have "no tax" as selling point. ^^;

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Originally Posted by Nicobo

ofcoz it will be customizable and eventually a lot of FC will have "no tax" as selling point. ^^;

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LOL, in that case, that FC gave up their right to bitch about having zero FC funding to purchase that land/house.

jc

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Originally Posted by AttacKat

tax system works, it is as plain and simple as that.

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This would be one more reason why I wouldn't be in an FC. I am currently trying to understand the relevance of one in the first place. I can just form an LS for social, raiding, role playing... whatever I want it to be. There are lots of 3rd party tools outside of game to do calendaring, etc.

Is it a house? The rumor mill of personal housing would make this obsolete. So tell me what would be the point or benefit of a tax system to be a member of an FC. Or what is the point of an FC period.

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

Or what is the point of an FC period.

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Community? FC actions? Company Chest?

A guild is noticeably less necessary in this game than in others, but it still has it's perks.

I for one just like being in a group with friends.

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Originally Posted by Zythrone

Community? FC actions? Company Chest?

A guild is noticeably less necessary in this game than in others, but it still has it's perks.

I for one just like being in a group with friends.

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But can't a LS be your community or group of friends? Company chest is trivial and the FC actions are laughable. Reduced teleport costs? You don't even have to grind for it and one daily roulette will cover a weeks worth of teleports.

Housing is the one thing that gives FC's a purpose.

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

I am currently trying to understand the relevance of one in the first place. ... Or what is the point of an FC period.

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The FC currently does nothing much, other then being a group hangout. But then, part of this is because ARR is new, FC is new, and there are tons of content yet to be implemented, and hence FC is not 1st priority IMHO.

Some possible benefits:
1. FC bonuses, as we already have
2. Hosuing - Not working well ATM because market is still too crazy, and SE not removing the RMTs from the game isn't helping much. But the truth is, I can buy a small plot myself and get me a FC house, but why if personal housing is on the pipeline?
3. Shared task/chest/bank - This is borrowing from EVE-Online. This is one area where ARR seriously lacks, and can gain major benefits from when implemented with secured audits and features. Allocation/sharing of tasks such as craftings, gathering, and "team" building can offer major benefits. But this will require major enhancements in term of functionality into ARR. When we have this, FCs now can pre-allocate materials/task for members to perform, and in term helps the FC to get stronger, and members to level. But the first issue SE needs to address here is FC funding. None of this is going to happen if it all depends on how welling you are to part your gils on a personal basis - hence my push for FC taxes. Imagine, low level DoM/W/L gathers materials, deposits them into FC chest, crafters make gears/tools, which in term are used by everyone as they level up. *This*, is what a FC can become, a community that helps each other. But again, none of this is going to happen when it relies on how much gils you are welling to part on your own welling.

But ATM, FC serves no purpose, and hence why I am not in any rush to build up my solo-member-L8 FC up.

jc

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Originally Posted by AttacKat

4. No worries about who is cheating the FC out of their funds, and having to rely on players' own royalty to their FC.

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Relying on players loyalty to the FC leads to players actually having some loyalty to their FC. Not everyone maybe, but enough that it shouldn't be lightly discarded.

I doubt anybody would ever contribute anything if there was a tax system in place, any more than people just randomly decide to give the government extra money IRL beyond what taxes they owe. I like a system where we can give gil to our FC because we care about the FC, and I think we'd lose that if taxes were taken out automatically. Too many people would stop trying to contribute the the FC and start just demanding they receive enough value from the FC to make up for the taxes they're being charged.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

Relying on players loyalty to the FC leads to players actually having some loyalty to their FC. Not everyone maybe, but enough that it shouldn't be lightly discarded.

I doubt anybody would ever contribute anything if there was a tax system in place, any more than people just randomly decide to give the government extra money IRL beyond what taxes they owe. I like a system where we can give gil to our FC because we care about the FC, and I think we'd lose that if taxes were taken out automatically. Too many people would stop trying to contribute the the FC and start just demanding they receive enough value from the FC to make up for the taxes they're being charged.

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I agree with this. Like I said it would be one more reason for me to not be involved in an FC. FC's have no relevance and now I get taxed.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

I doubt anybody would ever contribute anything if there was a tax system in place, any more than people just randomly decide to give the government extra money IRL beyond what taxes they owe.

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^^This

I consider FC as a community. Members would help each other whenever they can and if they are available.

If an FC becomes a government, wherein members are forced to pay for their services through taxes, then members would start to demand for the results on where the taxes would go. They better not spend the money into some useless furniture that is there only for vanity. They better put something in place that would make it easier for me to play the game. Perhaps a group that is always available whenever I want to run Brayflox.

While I agree that "donation" builds more royal members, it will hinder the general purpose of the FC and steer it to a closed niche "elist" grouping like we had back in 1.x with the LS.

Why you want a tax system? Simple, FC needs funds to provide services to their general member, and these services should be available to ALL members, and not just a few handful selected members. Donation allows and actually encourages "buy-in" to such groups.

As I said, if not here, somewhere else, FC ATM is useless, and there can be tons of features yet to be developed (if ever) to make it a functional part of this game and allow the FC to actually benefit their members, things such as providing gear crafting services, market board, FC only events (FC item activated fates, dungeons, quests), just to name a few.

Some of you may view it as a gov't, taking from the rich and giving it to the poor, I look at it as a community service body, where it needs funds to operate. As of now, such system just do not exist.

Again, borrowing from a previous game, this is an example of what a FC *can* become: EVE-University

jc

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Originally Posted by AttacKat

to make it a functional part of this game and allow the FC to actually benefit their members, things such as providing gear crafting services, market board, FC only events (FC item activated fates, dungeons, quests), just to name a few.

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This is what I mean by FC as a community. Members would help each other by providing services to other members.

As the top crafter on my FC, I provide them free crafting services depending on what gear they need. Also, other DOH members who can help would also provide crafting services to other members.
As for dungeons, I would help FC members in their fates/dungeons/quests as long as I am not busy.
This is a community. Everyone is helping each other the way they can. There is no need to force members to pay for these services.

"Each time you loot money from an enemy, an extra 5% money is generated and deposited directly into your guild bank." This was one of the WoW guild perks.

It would work better than the tax system as people wouldn't lose out and the FC wins.

It could be implemented as a rank 8 action thus you have to spend the 6K odd fc points to get a bonus to earn company gil.

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Originally Posted by AttacKat

there can be tons of features yet to be developed (if ever) to make it a functional part of this game and allow the FC to actually benefit their members, things such as providing gear crafting services, market board, FC only events (FC item activated fates, dungeons, quests), just to name a few.

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It's the members of an FC who provide gear crafting services to their fellow FC-mates, and that's already available. An FC-specific marketboard would be nice, but it wouldn't require any funds from the FC itself, just a way for FC members to post stuff that's specifically for other FC members. Many FCs already put on events, but again, I'm not sure what the taxes would have to do with that.

Basically, other than major FC-wide purchases like a house, I can't think of anything an FC would spend its money on that wouldn't just take away the opportunity for members to contribute. If the FC itself (rather than it's members) provides crafting services, for instance, what about all the members who have leveled crafting classes? They'd be stuck with one less use for their skills and one less way to contribute to their FC.

And when it does come to major purchases like an FC house, members are going to want to feel like they're a part of that. Having the house paid for by taxes instead removes most of the chances for people to contribute to it.

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Originally Posted by AttacKat

Some of you may view it as a gov't, taking from the rich and giving it to the poor, I look at it as a community service body, where it needs funds to operate. As of now, such system just do not exist.

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Actually, a taxation system in this environment would be more like taking from the poor to give to the rich. Everybody who joins an FC would have to pay into it, but only the FC leader gets the money. Of course, you can always just hope the FC leader will do something you like with it, but if the money is just taken from you automatically, you don't get the chance to specify what you want it used for. So it'll be used for whatever benefits the FC leader and his/her closest friends, as those are the needs and desires best known to the person who gets to spend it.

For instance, I've given a significant amount of money to my FC when we were saving for a house, because at that point, we had a clear purpose of what that money was for. I wouldn't, however, willingly give money just so the FC leader can spend it on himself (which is effectively what any taxation system would turn into).