The less viable moves for WAR?

Just wondering what moves the WAR have that really doesn't have all that much place in endgame instances. I'm trying to only keep two cross hotbars to be better on my rotations. I want to add Internal Release for a cross class skill and am seeing Unchained not really used at all. I can swap out skills based on what instance I'm in based on further info.

Any endgame WARs can give me their opinions and I can go from there? Thanks in advance. :)

You should rethink your approach. You will need to use all your skills to be a good warrior (or a good player for that matter).

Or do I misunderstand your question and you only want to know which cross class skills to take?

Edit: Or start using macros to free hotbar slots (like putting Mercy Stroke on Heavy Swing or something).

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Originally Posted by Alphras

(like putting Mercy Stroke on Heavy Swing or something).

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This will work. I only needed one slot. Thank you. Guess it's time to try macros.

Macros on your GCD actions slow down your GCD queue time by fractions of a second, period. You should be using Unchained; that you're not tells me you're not maximizing your damage or initial hate generation.

Without knowing what your bar looks like, if you're dying for 1 slot I would remove Fracture.

What system do you play on? I recently discovered a way to add more skills to a hotbar. In the options menu, you can decide to make L2+R2 bring up another hotbar. You can even make order make a difference. For me, L2 before R2 brings up my wrath menu with a 2nd copy of Infuriate. R2 before L2 brings up my number markers. And I still have room for a few more skills.

I don't want to lose a fraction of a second and am only trying to use to cross hot bars. I'm relatively new to tanking so I'm learning my groove. I use Unchained but not as much as I should I guess. Fracture uses tons of TP which I need during longer battles so I might give that up for Internal Release.

I'm on a PS4.

Can someone give me instances where they use unchained a lot or a situational move at least. Just trying to learn.

Any time you're tanking for a long stretch is a good time for Unchained. Pair with Berserk. One example of a fight opener:

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Originally Posted by Kitru

HS>SS>BB>HS>Maim>SE(Vengeance)>HS(Unchained)>SS(Berserk)>BB(Brutal Swing)>HS(Internal Release)>Maim>SE>HS>SS>BB>Inner Beast(Infuriate)>Inner Beast

You can squeeze in the final Inner Beast, which will still benefit from the Berserk and IR, if you're lucky and have some skill speed.

If you're using it while already in combat, which attack string you use depends upon whether you're starting it from an SE combo or a BB combo. Either way, you simply alternate between BB and SE using the same basic timing: Unchained after HS, Berserk after Maim/SS, either Brutal Swing or nothing after BB/SE (if it's on CD or you shouldn't be stunning, use nothing), IR after HS, and then finish off the combo, follow it up with the complimentary one, and then use Inner Beast.

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Another, for fights like Titan and Leviathan where your "phase 1" window is much shorter:

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

Defiance/Infuriate > (pull) Heavy Swing (Unchained) > Skull Sunder (Berserk) > Butcher's Block > go from there. Opening with Unchainedzerk is pretty much guaranteed "never worry about hate again".

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

Macros on your GCD actions slow down your GCD queue time by fractions of a second, period. You should be using Unchained; that you're not tells me you're not maximizing your damage or initial hate generation.

Without knowing what your bar looks like, if you're dying for 1 slot I would remove Fracture.

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You just need to put Mery Stroke after Heavy Swing in the makro, so you won't lose any time.

I have 3 hotbars on my WAR. But I have them set up that my main 3 combos (BB, SP, SE) are in the exact same spots across all 3. 1st bar I have extra slots filed in with just extra attack skills, 2nd bar is filled in with damage buffs and such, 3rd bar is filled in with defensive CDs and whatnot. that way, no matter what bar I'm on, I can keep up my combo rotations using the same buttons, and switching bars for CDs or whatever the situation calls for. however, for me, its all in muscle memory at this point, and switching bars comes naturally without having to think about what I have where.

edit: there's actually also a few other abilities that are in the same spots as well over all 3 such as overpower, tomahawk and inner beast. I'm sure there's at least 2 more, but just can't think of what they are atm

Unchained berserk and internal release will generate a lot of threat. Sometimes I like to start a fight like garuda ex or whatever for massive initial threat building

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Originally Posted by Alphras

You just need to put Mery Stroke after Heavy Swing in the makro, so you won't lose any time.

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That's not why you lose time. You lose time due to not being able to queue macro'd GCD actions up to 0.5 seconds before the GCD is up. Unless you are a pinpoint precision robot, you always lose time.

Just get into the reflex of mashing Mercy between GCDs when it's available. It's not difficult.

You can put less frequently/situational moves on the dual trigger hotbar.

I set cross-bar 5 to be my dual triggers. Both side has face button X as holmgang, triangle as fracture (only time I ever use this is during leviathan). You can also slap on heavy swing on square as well (although I didn't because I've already put heavy swing on my two main cross hotbars).

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

That's not why you lose time. You lose time due to not being able to queue macro'd GCD actions up to 0.5 seconds before the GCD is up. Unless you are a pinpoint precision robot, you always lose time.

Just get into the reflex of mashing Mercy between GCDs when it's available. It's not difficult.

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Great idea, but the thread creator doesn't want to handle all his skills manually (obviously).

I find that with the CDs after the action, I haven't had any real problem with activation anymore, for example, I have bloodbath activate after my war's first combo attack, and it trys to trigger a sec into the gcd, but I haven't felt any issues triggering the attack coming after say the combo finisher. I essentially have 1-5, control 1-5 and shift 1-5, and `, control ` and shift `.
I even have some CDs on an option select scheme. I use shift+3 i think, to use thrill, conva or second wind depending what's on CD.

So having a few macros kinda helps cause I don't use a mouse in combat. I can only imagine trying to play this on a gamepad.

You should always start a boss pull with Infuriate/Unchained/Beserk .


You literally will not have to ever look at your threat again after that.

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Originally Posted by MythToken

You should always start a boss pull with Infuriate/Unchained/Beserk

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If you're opening with those, you're hurting your enmity generation by a crapload. Your first BB is going to be genning 33% less than it could have if you delayed it by 15 seconds and, if you need more than what 1 BB provides in the first 10 seconds, you're doing something wrong.

If you want massive enmity, do this:

HS>SS>BB>HS>Maim>SE(Vengeance)>HS(Unchained)>SS(Berserk)>BB(Brutal Swing)>HS(Internal Release)>Maim>SE>HS>SS>BB>Inner Beast(Infuriate)>Inner Beast

Do that, and, unless there's another tank on the target in tank stance generating as much enmity as possible, you can do SE>SP for the rest of the fight.

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Originally Posted by Kitru

If you're opening with those, you're hurting your enmity generation by a crapload. Your first BB is going to be genning 33% less than it could have if you delayed it by 15 seconds and,

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That makes no sense


How exactly would your first BB be dealing 33% less damage with unchained and beserk?

If you are talking about maim and slashing debuff, that is dumb as hell. It's called snap aggro, by the time you get all the way through that rotation and back to Unchained and beserk (15sec) it won't matter anyways,
because I will already have insane aggro from my single tomahawk with unchained beserk.

If it takes you 15 sec to solidify aggro, you are doing it wrong.

It takes me 1.5 sec

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Originally Posted by MythToken

How exactly would your first BB be dealing 33% less damage with unchained and beserk?

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33% less *than if you delayed it by 15 seconds* (this is referring to the first BB combo used under the effects of the buffs, btw; not the first for the entire fight). If you wait just a *tiny* bit before blowing your CDs, you get much much larger returns.

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If it takes you 15 sec to solidify aggro, you are doing it wrong.

It takes me 1.5 sec

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If you seriously think that an unchained+berserk tomahawk is "insane aggro", I seriously have to wonder wtf you're smoking, especially since I can *assure* you that your buffed Tomahawk isn't going to mean shit if your DPS are opening hard.

A single BB combo is more than enough to solidify aggro until I can dump my significantly more effective Unchained+Berserk set up which is going to solidify aggro *for the remainder of the fight*. At best, you'll get 2 BBs (since you're wasting one of those UB + Berserk GCDs on Tomahawk) that don't get Maim or SE and you'll have to continue weaving in BB combos throughout in order to maintain your enmity cushion. I can throw out 3 BB combos total and have all of the enmity cushion I need to just use SE>SP for the remainder of the fight.

Using those buffs as you do is woefully shortsighted, significantly less effective, and your defense of it is basically pointless because an unbuffed Tomahawk is going to do the job just as well.

nah, i can do everything you do with my opening just fine. Toma + BB combo with unchained and beserk to start is a faster aggro ramp than yours by far.
After that it doesn't matter what I do, nothing is taking aggro off of me.

Aggro is a joke after the first 10 seconds for a warrior. You even support this with the idea that your 3x BB will hold aggro the whole fight.

Not to mention half the fights are tank swaps anyways, so your supposedly superior aggro doesn't matter again, and all that matters is SNAP aggro.

Snap aggro snap aggro snap aggro, not 30 second combo aggro then im good.

I

I agree with Kirtu, with the caveat that the straight Unchained-Zerk opening is somewhat worthwhile on fights with a very short phase 1 (Titan/Garuda/Levi EX)

What about Twintania? Where you literally have to rip it off the OT.


Titan ex
Garuda ex
Levi Ex
Mog ex
T5

oh so you mean the end game content?

Get off the paper number junkie train, and into the real world.

Maximizing your threat by making sure you hit every single buff debuff you have available is a joke. Threat is a joke.

Unchained+Zerk opening will do everything you need it to.

So you guys can have your 30 second 12 move combo all you want
meanwhile my dps has been going all out from the start,
while you are telling your group "hold on guys i havnt finished my full threat combo rotation yet" (nerd voice).

T5? Once you rip it off the OT you never have to worry about it again, unless your OT hit Twin with a Steel Cyclone or extra Flash or something. Which shouldn't be an issue because you pulled it off him with Provoke > Lob/Tomahawk, right? No? Oops.

An "unbuffed" BB opener, as with Kitru's not-Infuriate opening rotation, is more than often enough. Nobody's telling my group to hold back while I "ramp up".

Feel free to keep using hyperbole though. Really strengthens your argument.

Guys.. Guys.. We are kinda getting off topic here. Though I've learned the importance of Unchained a bit better through the banter.

I might try the 3rd crossbar setup where I press R2 and L2 to bring it up because scrolling through multiple bars can lead to some bad follies and this should help prevent me from being in the wrong crossbar at the wrong time.

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

T5? Once you rip it off the OT you never have to worry about it again, .

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Thank you for quoting and proving my point.

You do not need a gigantic threat rotation, its just dumb. You should be focusing on not dying.

Also don't pop your best Defensive cooldown at the start of the fight, p dumb too.

add Ifrit EX to that as well, because the dps will be killing nails and you will be tank swapping. So there really is not a single point where threat will be such a big issue that you should do a crazy threat combo.

@Kitru if your combo sequence is more DPS over time I would accept that argument, I still disagree that it is necessary for threat

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Originally Posted by MythToken

Also don't pop your best Defensive cooldown at the start of the fight, p dumb too.

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If you *need* Vengeance within the first 2 minutes of the fight, you're doing something woefully wrong (since you've all of your other CDs as well as IB). If you think that it's being wasted as a tank CD, I'd like to point out that the window in which that rotation has Vengeance active happens to be the most common period in which the first instance of regular burst damage mechanics occurs (Titan EX Mountain Buster, Ifrit EX Incinerate, Twintania DS, etc.).

The fundamental reason I use Vengeance at that point during my opening attack string is because of the Wrath stack and the reflected damage; the fact that it almost always gives me mitigation on burst attacks is just a side benefit. While it's not something you should factor into using it super often, it's important to remember that there's more to Vengeance than the DR.

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@Kitru if your combo sequence is more DPS over time I would accept that argument, I still disagree that it is necessary for threat

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It's significantly more damage over time (in fact, the use of the SE combo during the buffed phase is explicitly there because it's a DPS increase even if it reduces enmity gen, which would be maximized by only using BB combos) which is my entire point. Maximizing enmity generation during the buffed phase means using BB less often which translates into higher damage and greater utility/less healing required.

Enmity generation at the start of the fight doesn't matter. The difference between our usages is that I'm saying that it doesn't matter at all as long as you're not an idiot (Tomahawk>BB combo is more than enough to generate a solid enmity cushion) whereas you're saying that it doesn't matter as long as you use your CDs immediately.

Since I'm saying that opening enmity isn't an issue at all, using CDs to maximize it is wasting them which then beggars the question as to the most efficient/effective dispensation of said CDs if they're not needed for solidifying. By using those CDs in the prescribed manner (which can be done once every 2 minutes), you will get maximum damage contributions out of them as well as near maximum enmity (something like 90% of what you'd get with 3 BBs instead of 2 BBs and an SE while buffed), and the value of said maximized enmity is in allowing you to devote substantially fewer GCDs to enmity generation over the course of the entire fight, freeing you to devote those GCDs to more useful functions (since, as pretty much everyone agrees, it doesn't matter how big your enmity cushion is as long as you have one beyond the epeen of it) like damage and damage mitigation.

Well said



I also never said Tomahawk>BB i said buffed Tomahawk+BB > unbuffed BB SE combo


Sort of silly to think that there was no BB coming after a Tomahawk.


Anyways I hope this discussion has showed the OP the value of many of the warriors skills.

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Originally Posted by MythToken

What about Twintania? Where you literally have to rip it off the OT.

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Run in with OT -> Heavy Swing -> Provoke -> Skull Sunder -> Butcher's Block -> done

Yeah we got it.

I usually just 1 tank it, in which case i do go ahead and pop Infuruiate, but not unleashed and instead save the 5 stacks for a Steel Cyclone with some flashes.

Steel Cyclone can be useful OP, not sure if that is on your bar as well.



P.S.

HS>SS>BB>HS>Maim>SE(Vengeance)>HS(Unchained)>SS(Berserk)>BB(Brutal Swing)>HS(Internal Release)>Maim>SE>HS>SS>BB>Inner Beast(Infuriate)>Inner Beast

whats your SS at? because that last inner beast isn't happening before Beserk pacifys

the rotation is def more damage regardless of this, just curious

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Originally Posted by Desidious

Can someone give me instances where they use unchained a lot or a situational move at least. Just trying to learn.

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initial pulls
anytime i'm using bloodbath. brayflox SR's for example. esp if i'm using internal release and Berserk as well. which i always do if i'm using unchained.
dps checks
any boss fight where i don't feel i'm taking excessive damage.

Unchained can often come down to, am I needing that 20% damage reduction from IB consistently or not?

If I feel like I am surviving pretty well without it, and there are not huge damage spikes mechanics I have to use IB on, then I will always try to use Unchained to boost DPS.


Also I would largely ignore the giant combo sequence stated earlier in this thread, 99% of the time it's not very practical to use.
It's great on paper or on a dummy, but really as a War Tank your job is get threat which is easy, and then react to the situation while maintaining debuffs, dodging, anddoing as much dps as you can.

If you get bogged down in trying to get off the perfect rotation every time, which isn't necessary anyways, you are most likely not going to be focused on surviving or mechanics ect.