PLD BiS (Post T9) - Widely Accepted vs. Optimized Crit

Hey i just wanted to get your opionions regarding 2 PLD BiS sets. There is essentially a "Widely Accepted" BiS List that has been circulating for quite some time and is pretty much used as the Benchmark these days.

I found a post on Reddit (Credit goes to SluggySlugg) which is relative to the "Widely Accepted" set but essentially trades off:
+57 Crit, -9 DET, -44 SS, and -1 Parry.

Some believe that you should never trade off a main stat (Parry in this situation) for any amount of secondary stat.

I personally think -1 Parry is definately worth adding +57 Crit regardless of the primary/secondary stat debate.

What are your thoughts?

BiS (Widely Accepted)
BiS (Optimized Crit)


Edit: If anyone is interested in the Parry Stat i suggest reading this to get a better understanding of how its calculated.

TLDR: Apparently +13 points of Parry equate to a gain of 1% Parry chance/rate (0.08% per point)

i base all my stats on coil, so acc and parry are my major concerns, while it would be nice to have 57 crit i don't know if i really need that as a tank just trying to be a tank for T9 (when i get there). Rather the -44 Skill Speed really concerns me as well.

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Originally Posted by WingsofWar

i base all my stats on coil, so acc and parry are my major concerns, while it would be nice to have 57 crit i don't know if i really need that as a tank just trying to be a tank for T9 (when i get there). Rather the -44 Skill Speed really concerns me as well.

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I appreciate your input. Although i've heard Skill Speed is the most useless stat when it comes down (Excluding WAR for IB spam/MNK as long as they are above 400) to it as long as you are above a specific threshold.

for me, I'm goin for CRIT/DET/parry, and avoid SS. so my BiS will prolly be differ form most people.

here what it look like,
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/MK3F

only missing Body Pant, Belt, Ring, and a few oil and sand ><

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Originally Posted by Remn

for me, I'm goin for CRIT/DET/parry, and avoid SS. so my BiS will prolly be differ form most people.

here what it look like,
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/MK3F

only missing Body Pant, Belt, Ring, and a few oil and sand ><

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I think the stats on the site got messed up or am i missing something (364 acc) ?

I think calling Parry a primary stat is a mistake. Sacrifice 1 parry for a bunch of crit any day, twice sundays.

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Originally Posted by PROBOUND

I think the stats on the site got messed up or am i missing something (364 acc) ?

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that set will give me around 496 acc total, (with acc food., I should end up around 515-520 nicely) If my math is correct.
most of my right side has Acc (except allagan Ring) that plus, HA pant, SoL boot, HA belt and HA weapon.

I did math on excel using the official site DB as my resource.

Potato, potato secondary stats are barely worth discussing. Swap in a single str accessory will blow out your crit build.

People stack parry/VIT while main tanking until they are over geared. OTs have various rolls but the first swap in is STR accessories. (Full DPS str or crafted hybrids).

Personally I would go for crit and less skill speed. However you are really at the mercy of the RNG for a lot of the high allagen pieces, and you have a whole group of 7 people who also need sands and oils so its pretty much take what you can get until 2nd coil has been out a long time.

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

Potato, potato secondary stats are barely worth discussing. Swap in a single str accessory will blow out your crit build.

People stack parry/VIT while main tanking until they are over geared. OTs have various rolls but the first swap in is STR accessories. (Full DPS str or crafted hybrids).

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I'm speaking from the MT perspective. Furthermore the main reason i posted this was to get some type of confirmation on how the Parry stat is calculated (Linear vs. Non).

To essentially figure out how much of the parry stat is needed to increase the parry rate by 1% for example. Which would give me a better idea weather or not this -1 parry is worth the +57 Crit as many seem to be Divided on this subject.

The 1 parry is worthless. Most stats are thought to be linear but the game only shows whole numbers rounded.

1 parry vs 57 crit is a no brainer. But 57 crit vs 8 det 44 SS is virtually the same thing. As a MT even in BiS your DPS is very low. MT is also one of the last jobs in a group that will reach BiS due to sand/oil priority.

T9 was killed with an i94 ish PLD. So true BiS for a MT will have some slaying accessories since the VIT needed to win every fight is nowhere near i110 100% fending levels.

SS sucks

/10 char

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

The 1 parry is worthless.
1 parry vs 57 crit is a no brainer. But 57 crit vs 8 det 44 SS is virtually the same thing.

T9 was killed with an i94 ish PLD. So true BiS for a MT will have some slaying accessories since the VIT needed to win every fight is nowhere near i110 100% fending levels.

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You bring up a very good point about SS and DET. When tied together they provide essentially the same DPS increase as the 57 crit. What you said regarding the slaying accessories is interesting. I have never heard anything along those lines to date. Where most Tanks are opting for 2 Noct Rings to make up the temporary VIT gains (1 Weathered 1 Upgraded)

People aren't flirting with BiS yet. So people are min/maxing until t9 is on farm mode.

That's the same reason i70 accessories are being talked about once again. People are reaching their VIT needs and stacking more STR plus secondaries.

I would take Crit over SS any day of the week. SS is not good. While the stat weight itself might be =. It just isn't good, we have no way to regain TP.

Furthermore parry is WAYYYY overrated. It just isn't that good, especially not as a paladin.

And yes OT's are going Slayings all day.

The only Benefit i can see with going with a high parry build (600+) would be to eat 3* food (Popotto Pancakes) as thats the base stat required before maximum effeciency, although i dont think its currently possible to achieve a base of 600 with our current gear choices.

Asside from that, until i see some numbers about how parry is calculated, i cant see a benefit in stacking parry as a PLD once you reach a certain threshold (560+) especially if you are using the Noct Hoplon which devalues parry even further.

I haven't done the math to support this, but given the nature of Bahamut's Claw in the final phase of T9, stacking Parry as a PLD might not be the worst thing.

Parry for a single burst attack (Death Sentence, Ravensbeak) is so unreliable because but since Bahamut's Claw is a series of five consecutive attacks, Parry rate becomes more reliable despite the fact that the DR% is the same. You're more likely to get SOMETHING out of Parry when it's a multi-hit attack.

Paladin is also in Shield Oath for the vast majority of this fight and the entirety of Phase 2 and onward. Any damage gains from Crit is minimized.

I think Parry is the way to go for PLD MT in T9, but like any secondary stat, it really doesn't friggin' matter because secondary stats kinda suck and the returns are so low anyway.

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Originally Posted by bokchoykn

I think Parry is the way to go for PLD MT in T9, but like any secondary stat, it really doesn't friggin' matter because secondary stats kinda suck and the returns are so low anyway.

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Yes i'm slowly leaning towards a high parry build as i've beed reading up on the stat (very long read) and it seems that the general opinion is that its linear with +13 points of parry equating to a 1% gain in parry chance/rate. (0.08% per point). That being said parry seems to still have value especially in stuations like you mentioned with T9 MT.

I wouldn't stack parry unless you get alot for minor Det/Crit losses, like 2:1 or 3:1 trade off. You can virus every Baha's Favor, and E4E other claws, in conjunction with PLD's CD. Our PLD had only 7.1k HP on our clear and it was not MT's durability thats holding us back. There is so little MT damage apart from Claw/Favor Claw on the last phase.

Det > Crit for tanks.

i whipped something up rq

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/MN1B

-24 crit, -63 parry, -31 SS, for +78 Det

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Originally Posted by NightReach

Det > Crit for tanks.
-24 crit, -63 parry, -31 SS, for +78 Det

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While i do love your gearset (Seeing a Tank at 300 DET 400+ crit is lovely), i cant help but feel 500 Parry is too low. I cant argue with a T9 clear however. If your MT had 500 Parry or less i'd have to give it up to your healers. I could be wrong though as i dont have any exp in T9.

The only thing i have to go on is what other exp'd tanks recommend.

I brought up this argument to Junep3i (BG's original Twintania clear MT, now with Collision and multiple T9 clears) and he shot it down quite easily and i was only suggesting a loss of -15 parry +64 Crit at the time. He seems to think giving up any amount of parry in a progression scenario is a bad idea regardless of a DPS increase. While i dont like to take the word of any 1 player as Gospel, it seems to be the general concensus of many others as well.

If the +13 Parry/1% calculations are correct, i cant see giving up 8% parry chance/rate being a good idea in favor any amount of DPS gains.

I'd love to hear some other opinions from T9 PLD's who MT as well.

^im not clear on your maths, but I will say this 7.69% parry chance is probably close to the amount of variation in actual attacks parried you will experience on any given encounter.

Ive ranged from 20% parried attacks to 38% on the same fight with the same gear.

So my point is that, you would be correct if that 7.69% parry rate was guaranteed but it just isn't. It's RNG.

Over a 1000 fights will you get more parry than me yes.

But in the short term, we could have the exact same stats, and your parry rating could be 100 higher than mine, and there would be fights where I out parry you.
This is why I am personally against parry rating. It's nice to have, but stacking it is pointless.

Parry is diluted on PLD because of shield blocks.

But shield oath DPS is so horrid det/crit isn't changing t9s kill speed. (Or any fight that matters)

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

Parry is diluted on PLD because of shield blocks.

But shield oath DPS is so horrid det/crit isn't changing t9s kill speed. (Or any fight that matters)

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Id still never sacrifice 54 of anything for 1 point of parry.

The 15 points of parry vs 64 crit is interesting. You could argue the parry is worth it in this case, easy call if you were a warrior take the crit all day.
Not sure how it applies to paladins.

What do you guys think of Nightreaches gearset? 500 Parry (with Finger Sandwiches) for a gain +78 DET

It is interesting, but he is also losing crit, and SS. Which i don't think SS is good, but just pure stat weight wise, I think he is losing out.

Personally I would just try to get as much secondary stats as you can, without worrying about what they are. More stats = better in this game.

Stacking secondary stats have not really proven to be all that useful, for any class?


I will say some of the T9 MT paladins I have seen on lodestone are going full VIT and hitting close 600 parry.

So there could be something to that.

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Originally Posted by PROBOUND

I'd love to hear some other opinions from T9 PLD's who MT as well.

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I've jumped around on parry rating (currently 508 and using crit or accuracy food) to over 570 with parry food and noticed no appreciable difference in healing required over the fight with t9 clears.

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Originally Posted by Instrumentality

I've jumped around on parry rating (currently 508 and using crit or accuracy food) to over 570 with parry food and noticed no appreciable difference in healing required over the fight with t9 clears.

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Sure its a secondary stat with a small sample. Same thing could be said of stacking crit, det or SS.

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

Sure its a secondary stat with a small sample. Same thing could be said of stacking crit, det or SS.

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I could completely change all of my secondary stats in value by hundreds (Excluding accuracy) and it wouldn't noticeably change anything on t9 over a million billion hits as a Paladin main tank. I spend far too much time in Shield Oath for determination or skill speed to be telling, and parrying an attack versus not parrying an attack should never be the difference between life and death. Critical hit rating might have an argument because it counteracts the damage down on shield oath much better than the other two 'dps' stats.

But as a paladin MT on that fight all I focus on is ensuring proper cooldown usage for each mechanic and phase depending on healing requirements and healer mana. Other than that I could have 600 skill speed in i110 gear and just wouldn't care as long as I have the accuracy and vit that comes with it.

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Originally Posted by Instrumentality

But as a paladin MT on that fight all I focus on is ensuring proper cooldown usage for each mechanic and phase depending on healing requirements and healer mana. Other than that I could have 600 skill speed in i110 gear and just wouldn't care as long as I have the accuracy and vit that comes with it.

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Thanks for the info. I also have a similar feeling towards Crit as i do notice my DPS increases. Weather or not that matters is another debate alltogether.

I've been playing around with a 600+ Parry build so i hope to see if i can notice a difference. Perhaps there is a hidden plateau of sorts.

What are your thoughts on the Noct Hoplon? With the use of Bulwark it becomes comparable to a 2nd Sentinel cooldown from what i've been told. Are you currently using this in T9 or perhaps got lucky with the H.A Shield?

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Originally Posted by PROBOUND

What are your thoughts on the Noct Hoplon? With the use of Bulwark it becomes comparable to a 2nd Sentinel cooldown from what i've been told. Are you currently using this in T9 or perhaps got lucky with the H.A Shield?

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I have the HA shield, but I've done Nael with the Noct Hoplon upgraded. Bulwark works like a slightly gimp second Sentinel (In that since you're already blocking you can't block or parry for more reduction over the course of the cooldown). It does makes Bahamut's Claw pretty laughable in the final phase when you use it to solo soak Claws at ~41% reduction from blocks.

The HA shield currently blocks ~31% damage for me.