This game is forcing me to speed run, more and more

It's so many dungeons now. Most DF groups I get anymore end up becoming a speed run. High level and even low level dungeons now. Most of those groups the tank doesn't even mention it. He just runs ahead and starts grabbing everthing, while I just follow and wait for him to stop.

So I'm forced to just use the PF and try to manually set up parties for normal runs any more.

Doesn't that go against what Yoshi wanted? I mean DF is there to reduce the wait times, but you end up with people that don't want to do the content the same way as you do a lot of the times.

Speed running everything, is really starting to kill this game for me.


PS. I know I could always play a tank, but that is seriously not my style of play, and don't wana be forced to tank either.

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Originally Posted by Dimitrias

but you end up with people that don't want to do the content the same way as you do a lot of the times.

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...Did you really expect any different?

I was PLD and I met a dragoon who starts to pull all mobs for speed run

the healer and I just decided to let him die and he eventually left coz he never said anything about speed running the dungeon :)

and we did speed run after a blm joined us.

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Originally Posted by Dimitrias

Doesn't that go against what Yoshi wanted? I mean DF is there to reduce the wait times, but you end up with people that don't want to do the content the same way as you do a lot of the times.

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Yes, it's there to reduce wait times for people who can not, or choose not to preform full party. It is not there to ensure the dungeon is run in the manner one would like. If you have any expectations for the manner in which the run should be done when you DF you're causing yourself added frustration.

I personally would rather speed run when i DF/Roullette. It's not possible when many times there's a tank with around the same HP as my BLM i joined as. I suck it up, and run how the group wants to run, and so should you from the opposite side of the fence. Or as you said. Make a PF.

Why would you not want to complete a dungeon quickly?

Joined a DR Brayflox HM as WHM. I requested we didn't do Speed Run sized pulls and that's how the dungeon proceeded. If you don't ask [before people take action]you won't recieve

Not sure how to satify as a "speed run" ^^;
but according to dungeon design, there is a time limit counter so it imples to complete it asap?
IMO "fast complete award" should be added bcoz faster completion definitely is a better result in accordance with the time limit counter design.

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Originally Posted by Nicobo

Not sure how to satify as a "speed run" ^^;
but according to dungeon design, there is a time limit counter so it imples to complete it asap?
IMO "fast complete award" should be added bcoz faster completion definitely is a better result in accordance with the time limit counter design.

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I am for Speedruns but taking the 90 minute time limit counter as an arguement for that is like taking 10 minutes to run 100 meters for a challange

it's just how the game evolved.. this is like moaning that resident evil FORCES you to kill zombies /headdesk

You cannot put on the game the behavior of people.

Anyway, I'm now starting to do exp roulette with my brand-new whm, I just tell the tank I'm gearing and he pack less mobs accordly. Run were speedy anyway, just the 40s extra for pulling 3 packs instead of usual 2 (or 1, if everyone i90+) before boss.

Edit: the run need be slowed anyway, if DF makes a setup without AoE dps. Packing more mobs is only more pressure to healer but don't change anything on completion speed.

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Originally Posted by Nicobo

Not sure how to satify as a "speed run" ^^;
but according to dungeon design, there is a time limit counter so it imples to complete it asap?
IMO "fast complete award" should be added bcoz faster completion definitely is a better result in accordance with the time limit counter design.

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Speed runs are generally done by pulling all mandatory trash up to a boss, AoEing it down, killing the boss, and repeating until you're done. If you have the gear for it, it greatly speeds up dungeon runs. Alternatively you can avoid much of the trash either by simply not aggroing it, leashing it somehow (see the teleporter in Prae), or sac pulling.

In 1.0, there actually were rewards for completing the dungeon under a certain amount of time. These were removed in 2.0.

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Originally Posted by Zaft

Speed runs are generally done by pulling all mandatory trash up to a boss, AoEing it down, killing the boss, and repeating until you're done. If you have the gear for it, it greatly speeds up dungeon runs. Alternatively you can avoid much of the trash either by simply not aggroing it, leashing it somehow (see the teleporter in Prae), or sac pulling.

In 1.0, there actually were rewards for completing the dungeon under a certain amount of time. These were removed in 2.0.

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Thanks for telling me 1.0 had it and the concrete description for SR, so now I am quite sure a lot of "speed run" problems were actually just playing inappropriately but not really a speed run.

For me, I kinda felt the way around.

In 1.0, doing speed run is a must if you want bigger chance of great equipment/item drops. Now in ARR, SR is not mandatory anymore. And I see more and more ppl enjoying slower pace. At least here at my current server which is JP, alot of them prefers normal runs.

For my current Soldiery farming, I'm signing up for Halatali Hard in DF rather than doing Expert DR...
If DR would give Lost City, people either leave right away or have problems actually handling Diabolos fight...
If DR would give Brayflox hard, it varies if people stay or leave (depends on party setup), and quite often tank pulls more than he/she/it can handle, putting all responsibility on the healer and dps to keep up. Without asking first if everyone is ok with speedrun.

I can handle brayflox speedrun just fine, but I don't like the stress that is associated with it, so Halatali hard it is.

Diabolos is super easy, just need 1 player doing the door duties, remember the pairs and mark them to help memorize it (door icon appears above it for short while though). Then open the 1st door and make sure it stays open before Diabolos cast that heavy AOE, sometimes that 1st door can be force-close by one of Diabolos attack. And when it started casting that huge AOE, run and open 2nd door. Basically just that.

When I get Lost City, I usually do the door duties cause it's kinda fun. ^^

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Originally Posted by sheepysheepy

it's just how the game evolved.. this is like moaning that resident evil FORCES you to kill zombies /headdesk

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That's a really bad analogy.

Under that same thinking you could debate that Brayfox has chests off the speedrun path, so henceforth it was obviously created to wander all the options.

I like speed runs. In order to farm for gear you need a good 300 or so runs for full armor set. Sure it's fun first few times but after that just want to get it done.

Generally the only people in this game complaining about the speed runs can't do them. Gear up a little and try again. Unless you enjoy non stop grinding something that takes months in which case I'd recommend runescape.

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Originally Posted by sylent09

I like speed runs. In order to farm for gear you need a good 300 or so runs for full armor set. Sure it's fun first few times but after that just want to get it done.

Generally the only people in this game complaining about the speed runs can't do them. Gear up a little and try again. Unless you enjoy non stop grinding something that takes months in which case I'd recommend runescape.

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Or people who generally find the normal pace of a dungeon relaxing and like playing at a pace that isn't a thousand miles an hour. The assumption that people who hate spend running have crappy gear is an absurd one. I realize the game is a grind, but having some immense desire to get everything fresh and shiny as soon as possible isn't on everyone's plate. I'm not even bothering getting soldiery gear until I get coil stuff because I like to enjoy the content, the only pace people set is their own.

Even as a tank, I get pushed for speed runs (which admittedly I like), but some people just aren't smart about it.

For example, I tanked Halitali HM in DFR the other day. Drew an obviously under geared Brd and Mnk as DPS. (a cursory look at the HP is usually enough info). Not a problem, I don't mind normal pulls. However, after the first two pulls, the Brd starts yappin about wanting bigger pulls. I just ignored them. Then we got to the first boss, which went down just fine, just extremely slowly. After which the Brd pipes up yet again: "NOW can we do larger pulls????". I finally look at him and see that he is only using a lvl44 pink bow. (!!). I finally responded to him "Why? The DPS isn't exactly over geared for the content...." Blessedly, it was the last I heard about it the entire dungeon.

i assume everyone who hates speed runs are monks or under geared healers! just my assumption!

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Originally Posted by Dimitrias

[...]PS. I know I could always play a tank, but that is seriously not my style of play, and don't wana be forced to tank either.

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Believe me, this doesn't solve the problem at all. If people see a tank NOT doing mass pulls and speed running, the bitching starts. People expect tanks to be able to pull a zillion mobs without losing aggro or dying. If you have ever asked yourself why there are not more tanks, this is one of the reasons why. Tank must start at ilevel 90 and 1.000 hours of experience before he hits his 1st dungeon. If not, call him noob and tell to "l2play".

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Originally Posted by scarletfoxxy

i assume everyone who hates speed runs are monks or under geared healers! just my assumption!

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If i96 WHM (Weathered Daystar, Cleric's, Allagan, Animus) is under geared.... sure. Assume away.

Hating speedruns is different from not being capable of speedrunning.
I'm capable, and have done them, but I hate them because of the stress associated with them and because I've run into way too many tanks and dps that fails at it.

I'm playing to relax and have fun. I get enough stress at work.

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

If i96 WHM (Weathered Daystar, Cleric's, Allagan, Animus) is under geared.... sure. Assume away.

Hating speedruns is different from not being capable of speedrunning.
I'm capable, and have done them, but I hate them because of the stress associated with them and because I've run into way too many tanks and dps that fails at it.

I'm playing to relax and have fun. I get enough stress at work.

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The stress you say? If any video game stresses you out you shouldn't play games. I tank and have never felt stressed. It's stressful standing in a spot spamming cure 2?

I play mnk, sch, war and smn. I do not mind speedruns. However, I would not mind grabbing all the treasure chests. Also, I think if you lock out the monkey ( most people do in Brayflox ) then you have no chance of getting the monkey minion. Other then that... people in this game are in a rush like their hair is on fire. lol I think it's funny as hell.

Even with all the other ff games, I've always went at a steady pace. Grinded a lot in between areas. Enjoyed the whole story. Didn't rush through the CS's. Talked to all the npc's in the games. Even through multiple playthrough's I always played that way and tried to 100% those games. Never did, but always tried.

Even RE games, played um same way. That's how I've played all offline rpg's and other games all my life.

It's just the type of person I am, and speed running forces me to skip parts of the map, and cs's. I know you can watch all the CS's in the inn, but it doesn't feel the same. Just like being ported directly to a duneon, instead of jornying to it with your party, but that's a different topic.

Edit: Also during my prae run with the roulette yesterday, someone in the group said "This my first time" at the very beginning, and they still SR it anyways. Also I just started doing that roulette, and havn't done Prae in months. What happened with me was I forgot to click on the terminal and couldn't get the magitech armor on, so I went back but couldn't find it, plus mobs were still roming around up there. So I ended up just leaving :( Nothing at all was said at the part either, I'm surprised I was the only one that forgot to click on it. I have literally only done that dungeon 1 time before, but people just don't pay attention and assume everyones done it hundreds of times alrdy, but in my case that's not true.

Hopefully next time I run it, i'll remember to click on that thing, guss you just gota learn from your past mistakes like in RL.

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Originally Posted by AngelusOfEorzea

Also, I think if you lock out the monkey ( most people do in Brayflox ) then you have no chance of getting the monkey minion.

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SLIGHTLY off topic, but can anyone confirm this? I'm somewhat certain that I have seen the minion drop after locking out the monkey, I'm just not positive. Can anyone confirm or deny????

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Originally Posted by Dimitrias

What happened with me was I forgot to click on the terminal and couldn't get the magitech armor on, so I went back but couldn't find it, plus mobs were still roming around up there. So I ended up just leaving :( Nothing at all was said at the part either, I'm surprised I was the only one that forgot to click on it. I have literally only done that dungeon 1 time before, but people just don't pay attention and assume everyones done it hundreds of times alrdy, but in my case that's not true.

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unfortunately newbies are now the minority, and any community that runs itself democratically goes with the majority, if the majority speedrun, then the majority of players are happy speedrunning and businesses do well to try and keep majorities happy

I really don't understand the anti speed runs. I've been here since launch and I gota say after running 30-45 min ak runs after the sac pulling was nerfed doing 12 min tops brayflox or even 15 min halitalis is so much more enjoyable.

I can't fathom why a person would want to drag out something they could finish fast and have time for other stuff... In game or out.

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I can't fathom why a person would want to drag out something they could finish fast and have time for other stuff... In game or out.

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Agreed, however there can be a bit of a difference between a serious speed run and a run that just goes smoothly and quickly as far as attitude and expectations go. I'd much rather have a smooth and laid back 12-15 minute run than a pretty high strung, tense 8 minute run.

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Originally Posted by Alanon

SLIGHTLY off topic, but can anyone confirm this? I'm somewhat certain that I have seen the minion drop after locking out the monkey, I'm just not positive. Can anyone confirm or deny????

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I think it's supposed to be a suggestion, to make people want to kill it instead of lock it out.

I personally think they should just remove the ability to lock mobs out.

I don't speedrun but I don't feel pressures to do one either. I like enjoying the dungeon, looking around and relax. I say it upfront and if people have a problem they can either leave or bitch until I do - which isn't really a problem for me because queues are fast. Good luck speedrunning without a healer.