Reraise..?

So, everyone is apparently getting a raise spell this update, and they're probably adding weapon skills for DoW classes that will raise people in the future, like Red Lotus Raise and Savior's Intent etc. Everyone can haz a rez, wheee.

Can we get some Reraise spells, so that our mages can auto-revive themselves? If the only person that can raise dies and is required to Return, that disrupts the flow of battle, especially during a quest that required the party to fight their way through aggressive mobs to reach the objective (like Nanawa Mines).

And have people bitch about the game being even easier still?

I dunno how much of a need there is for this though. If the mage dies it was either due to poor planning or poor playing. Should they really be allowed to just auto-revive and negate it? I think if the party is doing so poorly that the mages die they should have to live with that.

reraise and reresurrect were in the dats, I'm actually quite pissed about not having it, what use is it if I die too, we all return, YAY! (facetious) BOO!!!!! Shame on you SE

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arcell

And have people bitch about the game being even easier still?

I dunno how much of a need there is for this though. If the mage dies it was either due to poor planning or poor playing. Should they really be allowed to just auto-revive and negate it? I think if the party is doing so poorly that the mages die they should have to live with that.

---

"Easy" and "Convenient" are not the same thing and I loathe people that can't tell the difference. Not having to walk for minutes at a time, being able to take a chocoferryairshiplolmount? Convenience, not "easy". Not having to wade through aggressive mobs to get back to your levequest in progress because you're the healer? Convenient, not "easy".

Posting negative comments in the form of "and people complain the game is too easy already" about every suggestion? Convenient AND Easy, with the benefit of requiring 0 INT!

Maybe you should chill a little bit there buddy. Everything that makes the game "easier" people complain about. I personally don't mind the conveniences much like dark matter repairs or other forms of transportation. I think the only reason people would accept something like this is because it was in XI.

Not having to walk may be convenient but wouldn't knowing you have that kind of room to screw up be considered more easy? If you know you've got at least one free extra life you can just throw away with little consequence, would you worry as much about dying? People have proven on this game at least that unless there is some penalty they will play poorly. Apparently no one plays well for the sake of playing well anymore.

If the mages play well and the party knows what they're doing, ideally you shouldn't even need it. There are occasional unavoidable circumstances where death is not the fault of the player but those are few and far between. If the mages play poorly, die and then the party wipes then that is their fault. Should they alone be given a free extra life and allowed to come back mid-battle?

Believe me though I know the difference. Easy is the absence of difficulty, convenience is the absence of frustration. Time spent =/= difficulty but free extra lives makes things a little easier.

Edit: I should probably also mention that I'm not against the inclusion of Re-raise. However when people constantly complain about difficulty they shouldn't go around asking for free extra lives.

Seems to me that they'd reserve that sorta thing for a WHM specifically. From a balancing point of view, you wouldn't want every class to be able to reraise, would ya?

Reraise is being saved for WHM.

I would really like to see Reraise as well. It's always cool to see the healer pop back up to save the day! I would have to agree that it is most likely being reserved for WHM only. It would be cool to see it in other ways as well, like Goddess's Hymnus.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arcell

Maybe you should chill a little bit there buddy. Everything that makes the game "easier" people complain about. I personally don't mind the conveniences much like dark matter repairs or other forms of transportation. I think the only reason people would accept something like this is because it was in XI.

Not having to walk may be convenient but wouldn't knowing you have that kind of room to screw up be considered more easy? If you know you've got at least one free extra life you can just throw away with little consequence, would you worry as much about dying? People have proven on this game at least that unless there is some penalty they will play poorly. Apparently no one plays well for the sake of playing well anymore.

If the mages play well and the party knows what they're doing, ideally you shouldn't even need it. There are occasional unavoidable circumstances where death is not the fault of the player but those are few and far between. If the mages play poorly, die and then the party wipes then that is their fault. Should they alone be given a free extra life and allowed to come back mid-battle?

Believe me though I know the difference. Easy is the absence of difficulty, convenience is the absence of frustration. Time spent =/= difficulty but free extra lives makes things a little easier.

Edit: I should probably also mention that I'm not against the inclusion of Re-raise. However when people constantly complain about difficulty they shouldn't go around asking for free extra lives.

---

Nobody said anything about difficulty. It's about convenience and things that can potentially break a run, like the only person being able to raise having to Return to a place that's not convenient to travel back to.

As for "if everyone is doing their job well".. no. We'll see how that pans out with the coming enmity adjustment. Right now, nobody is really certain how the wacky enmity system works, and there's little to no consistency.

In FFXI, if an aggressive monster aggros a player while they're fighting or doing something else, as long as nobody performs any actions on that monster, than no actions performed by any player generate any enmity on that monster (If I cure spam someone who's aggroed a monster, that monster won't do anything to me if nobody in the party has touched that monster). In FFXIV, battles just feel like a free for all frenzy, and any little action performed by mages, even casting protect, can cause them to die. So there's much less to do with people "doing their jobs right" as it is "nobody knows what their job really is because of the wacky hate system".

Add in the fact that nearly every freakin' mob in the game uses ranged attacks, and even intelligent mages that know to keep the maximum casting distance between them and mobs are still defenseless from random death.

If there was a logical enmity system like FFXI has then I would be the first to agree with you that playing your job well is the way to avoid dying. But there isn't. And players don't suffer from "easy mode" mentality in FFXI because of all the conveniences awarded them. The average FFXI player (that has been playing since before the advent of Abyssea at least) knows their job mechanics pretty well. Doomsday phrases like "there won't be any incentive for people to play their jobs well" are just naysay.

There was a Dev comment on the french forum about reraise recently.

Someone asked if they were planning to add an item that would have the same effect as reraise and got that answer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Youmukon

J'ai fais parvenir à l'équipe de développeurs la suggestion concernant un éventuel objet pouvant offrir « Revie » (Reraise). Pour le moment cela n’est pas prévu. En revanche l’équipe va continuer de suivre l’évolution du jeu et pourra ci-nécessaire ajouter ce type d’objet !

---

Meaning:

Quote:

---

I sent your suggestion about an item giving a "Reraise" effect to the dev team. Right now, it's not in planning. However, the team will follow the progression of the game and if it's necessary, might add that type of item.

---

Then someone asked about the reraise spell and got that answer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Youmukon

Bonjour !

Bon ben mauvaise nouvelle :( Comme pour les objets, le sort « Revie » n'est pas encore au programme. Les développeurs m'ont confirmé de nouveau qu'ils étudieront comment le jeu évolue et ajouterons le sort ci-nécessaire. Ce n'est pas faute d'avoir essayé :mad:

---

Quote:

---

Well bad news :( Like for the item, the spell "Reraise" is not in planning. The developpers confirmed again that they will study how the game change and will add that spell if it's necessary. It's not because i didn't try :mad:

---

tl;dr They're not planning to add that spell.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arcell

And have people bitch about the game being even easier still?

I dunno how much of a need there is for this though. If the mage dies it was either due to poor planning or poor playing. Should they really be allowed to just auto-revive and negate it? I think if the party is doing so poorly that the mages die they should have to live with that.

---

stupidest argument ever.

Look at that dungeon video again & say im glad we wiped at that 8k AoE damage & we have no one to freakin raise us.
Great now we all have to HP and run the F back. (or we could let the Mage HP...run back & Raise us... great plan)

thats a nice waste of time inside a time-limited dungeon.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arcell

However when people constantly complain about difficulty they shouldn't go around asking for free extra lives.

---

Even if the mage dies, & res they still have to deal with the Weakness status. (wich is fine with me & i havent seen anyone complaining about btw wich is good)

Example. you wipe at last boss 10min left on timer. (mage dont have RR) but everyone got raise.
Who will Raise who, oh shit no one can. What do you do?

Make everyone HP, run back in before timer runs out (deal with weakness)
or
let only the mage run back and res 1 person,
waits for cooldown,
uses next Raise, longer cooldown
& finally last res even longer cooldown.

By the time the mage have raised everyone, only 1-2 people have gotten rid the of the weakness status & timer is down to 3min (close example)

Maybe even worse 1-2 members still dead to raise, cuz no point in melee to equip or even try using raise with weakness status on them. (cuz the casting time has been prolonged)

Anyone spot the flaw in this?

People should try not to die and learn from their mistakes? You know that 8k damage comes from what seems to be a walking trap mob, probably should learn to avoid that thing. We currently don't have reraise, how are you going to deal with it now? In any other game if you die you die, that's it. Learn from your mistake and get better. Had reraise not been in XI or other FFs this idea would get shot down in an instant.

Again, not against the implementation of Reraise. I welcome it but I feel like people should think about what they're asking for.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arcell

People should try not to die and learn from their mistakes? You know that 8k damage comes from what seems to be a walking trap mob, probably should learn to avoid that thing. We currently don't have reraise, how are you going to deal with it now? In any other game if you die you die, that's it. Learn from your mistake and get better. Had reraise not been in XI or other FFs this idea would get shot down in an instant.

Again, not against the implementation of Reraise. I welcome it but I feel like people should think about what they're asking for.

---

who cares, it's not like the mages gonna be spamming Reraise, besides most of those spells have long cooldown...
hell i couldnt care less if it had a 5-10min cooldown, anywayz.

I know exactly what im asking for, i want freakin RR if im going into a dungeon with a
mob that does "Random" AoE damage to the party if they are caught in its path.
(side note: now this is the type of battle ive been waiting for)

Id also like it cuz i dont need to take Bullshit from melees why i dont have RR in
the first place because they actually think we DONT NEED it...

seems even pointless to argue with a melee about it so i'll wait
until a few weeks after the dunegon is released.

Really? Looking down on me because I'm not a 50 mage? Again not against the implementation of it, I just foresee a ton of complaining about such a thing considering simply having raise be R14 caused a veritable shitstorm.

The MP cost of Reraise in FFXI is what made it prohibitive to use repeatedly.. when you are weakened you suffer a reduction in Max MP, meaning you didn't have a lot of leeway with your mana pool. You could cast a Reraise, raise and buff a few players and then you'd need to rest. As for learning from your mistakes, again, until the enmity situation is updated in a way that it makes sense, death happens for little or no reason at all currently. If you die casting 1 cure? You learn from your mistake by.. not curing anyone and letting them die? If you buff someone and die.. you don't cast any buffs and let everyone take much more damage, ultimately causing them to die? We aren't the ones that need to learn from our mistakes. SE is. And they could stand to learn from things that DO work, like the enmity system and raise/reraise spells in FFXI.

Also in FFXI, when weakened, your recast timers for spells are all doubled, so Reraise would lose its value in a situation where people were wiping repeatedly. In FFXI, this is less of a problem because White Mages have 3 tiers of Reraise, with 3 separate timers. In FFXIV, having 1 reraise spell and imposing a recast timer penalty while weakened seems like a good trade off to me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arcell

Really? Looking down on me because I'm not a 50 mage?

---

Not really, but if i were in a PUG (my bad, i mean Pick-up-group not Pugilist) why whould u expect me to trust
you in your Melee abilitys when i dont even know your play style?

For all we know we might be able to HP back to start of dungeon,
or even worse outside last know Homepoint.
Even so we all have to deal with the weakness, and casting spells
during that effect isnt making things easier. (especially Raise)

That would be awesome if some jackass forgot to set HP close to the dungeon wouldnt it.
(and that person is out of anima)

The point is, do you want a mage to save you or are you just gonna equip
your Cure 2-3, Raise yourself because you can?

Or actually let the mage do what he/she does best?
You cover my ass i cover yours, it's that simple.

It would be better if i could do both, cover my own ass so i can evetually cover yours.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Laughlyn

It would be better if i could do both, cover my own ass so i can evetually cover yours.

---

Or just lose the trust issues and make some friends you can rely on instead of sounding like a kid having a temper tantrum in a forum.

Yep looking forwards to reraise eventually as well, just for the fact that I solo a lot. As a beastmaster in XI reraise was my best friend. XD

I'm not even touching the other issue that was raised, it's not even an issue. muah ha ha.

I'm indifferent to reraise being implemented, but I think we should just see how the dungeons play out before arguing over this. For all we know there could be checkpoints to come back to if the whole party wipes instead of starting all the way over, but still at points where it's a bit of a setback but doesn't have people going "OMFG we gotta start all the way over????" Although, with SE, starting all the way over in a complete wipe wouldn't be a surprise ...

reraise would be a beautiful addition.

.............
.....................
and mail delivery

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MistyMew

and mail delivery

---

Can only dream for now :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ryndael

Or just lose the trust issues and make some friends you can rely on instead of sounding like a kid having a temper tantrum in a forum.

---

And what ud expect from people that dont think beyond their own eyeballs?

Oh btw, this kid is 35 years old so.... wtf is your problem?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chocobits

So, everyone is apparently getting a raise spell this update, and they're probably adding weapon skills for DoW classes that will raise people in the future, like Red Lotus Raise and Savior's Intent etc. Everyone can haz a rez, wheee.

---

Whoa whoa whoa. Just because CON gets a couple extra raises that do different stuff (with intense MP and cooldown costs), it doesnt mean anything about the other classes. Did you even see that the Raise II and Rebirth are exclusive to CON?

And even after reading the rest of the topic, it's all an exaggerated mess of speculation. I'm also personally against Re-Raise unless it's on a HUGE cooldown. If your party wipes, it's everybody's fault. If it was because a random person screwed your party, it's still your fault. You chose for them to be in the party.

And also to note OP, just because you can't figure out enmity, it doesn't mean there isn't reason to it. You obviously haven't played the higher content because enmity is easily controlled and easily managed with players that know what they are doing. And aggro adds NEVER attack a second player unless you take any action against that mob or the player who has the aggro dies. The only exception to this is leve mobs which follow a special set of rules depending on who started the leve.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Laughlyn

And what ud expect from people that dont think beyond their own eyeballs?

Oh btw, this kid is 35 years old so.... wtf is your problem?

---

Then act like it. Cussing and moaning about your bad party experiences isn't constructive. The fact is that even though it's more than likely going to be implemented at some point, it is far from being needed. The answer to your last question should be obvious.

LOL I love Reraise

love it effect and also love the Halo ring over my head

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Laughlyn

Look at that dungeon video again & say im glad we wiped at that 8k AoE damage & we have no one to freakin raise us.

---

They died because they were to near to the trap(?) monster. One survived.
You can get raise with CON/THM rank 14. Everyone in the party should have the spell equipped. If one survive he can raise the mage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ryndael

Then act like it. Cussing and moaning about your bad party experiences isn't constructive. The fact is that even though it's more than likely going to be implemented at some point, it is far from being needed. The answer to your last question should be obvious.

---

You dont like my attitude?
Deal with it punk.

I never mentioned i had a bad party experience to you, please.. dont put words in my mouth.
Well doh, ofc it will most likely be implemented you fool.

We all know they gonna add whm...etc sooner or later but thats not the point.

Why give us a boat if we cant have paddles?
Meh, you prolly too stupid to understand that too.

You wanna harass somone, you sure picked the wrong female to try it on snort.

Psh, you telling me on how to act?
Hell you dont even know me & yet you bug in for no
obvious reason trying to pick a fight yourself, grow up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Felis

They died because they were to near to the trap(?) monster. One survived.
You can get raise with CON/THM rank 14. Everyone in the party should have the spell equipped. If one survive he can raise the mage.

---

>.> i know that, the point was "If no one survived", hence the word "Wipe". (wich would entitle full party wipe)
Obviously that mage (i think it was a cnj) was out of range, but if he werent he be beyond dead.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Laughlyn

You dont like my attitude?
Deal with it punk.

I never mentioned i had a bad party experience to you, please.. dont put words in my mouth.
Well doh, ofc it will most likely be implemented you fool.

We all know they gonna add whm...etc sooner or later but thats not the point.

Why give us a boat if we cant have paddles?
Meh, you prolly too stupid to understand that too.

You wanna harass somone, you sure picked the wrong female to try it on snort.

Psh, you telling me on how to act?
Hell you dont even know me & yet you bug in for no
obvious reason trying to pick a fight yourself, grow up.

---

I love how much you contribute to this thread. (This is sarcasm, btw.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JayvirDeforte

I'm also personally against Re-Raise unless it's on a HUGE cooldown.

---

I second this.

A full party wipe would be bad. But if one survive, he can raise person 2 then person 2 can raise person 3 and then person 3 can raise person 4 and then ....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ryndael

I love how much you contribute to this thread. (This is sarcasm, btw.)

---

Are we straying of the topic?

You havent contributed shit to this thread at all. (makes me wonder why you are even here)
If you are against it, just say so. (wich you finally did)

If you arnt prepared to discuss anything related to the thread topic maybe you should go hide in your corner again.

And holy crap, i've had enough of this BS forum.
Worst idea ever by SE trying to get people to discuss anything.

Was hell of alot better when you sent them suggestion & didnt even get any reply back.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JayvirDeforte

Whoa whoa whoa. Just because CON gets a couple extra raises that do different stuff (with intense MP and cooldown costs), it doesnt mean anything about the other classes. Did you even see that the Raise II and Rebirth are exclusive to CON?

And even after reading the rest of the topic, it's all an exaggerated mess of speculation. I'm also personally against Re-Raise unless it's on a HUGE cooldown. If your party wipes, it's everybody's fault. If it was because a random person screwed your party, it's still your fault. You chose for them to be in the party.

And also to note OP, just because you can't figure out enmity, it doesn't mean there isn't reason to it. You obviously haven't played the higher content because enmity is easily controlled and easily managed with players that know what they are doing. And aggro adds NEVER attack a second player unless you take any action against that mob or the player who has the aggro dies. The only exception to this is leve mobs which follow a special set of rules depending on who started the leve.

---

I admit I haven't played higher level content, most of what I "know" as a new player is based on mid-level (25~) groupings, which are never a way to asses anything. As for quantifying hate in FFXIV, I haven't seen any numbers posted as they were for FFXI. I assume there's a type of volatile and static hate similar to FFXI, but I haven't seen the values of specific actions posted. To my eyes, hate is completely erratic and not based on who's bashing their voke macro, who's doing the most damage or who's curing the most. It's a random mish mosh where I can cast a protect and be laid waste mid battle. Some of this is from leve battles, which I didn't know were on a special mechanic. But then, doesn't that just prove that there are circumstances where hate ISN'T reliable and that things can go wrong in a second due to quirky mob behavior?

There's too much ego in this thread. Hate control in this game isn't anything to be proud of; it's more like you "lucked out" and that particular mob decided not to attack anyone but the tank. Until the 1.18 update, which may usher in some kind of consistency, I'd like to personally sink every ego-tanks' battleship.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chocobits

There's too much ego in this thread. Hate control in this game isn't anything to be proud of; it's more like you "lucked out" and that particular mob decided not to attack anyone but the tank. Until the 1.18 update, which may usher in some kind of consistency, I'd like to personally sink every ego-tanks' battleship.

---

When the mob lasts longer than a minute you can actually notice all the inconsistencies and compensate for them easily. idk who you're talking about as an "ego-tank" (whatever the heck that is) but at level 20-30 that doesn't exist. Hate needs a total revamp of course but the people who have learned to manage the current mechanics are going to be the same ones eager to get good at the new system.

Battle system and emnity changes impending!

Let's see how the new battle system flies first. THEN we can work out how re-raise would/could fit in it. This discussion is happening a week early and thus out of context .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Catapult

Battle system and emnity changes impending!

Let's see how the new battle system flies first. THEN we can work out how re-raise would/could fit in it. This discussion is happening a week early and thus out of context .

---

^this
Do me a favor and post this on all the other threads that are jumping the gun too lol

And possibly it was me who allowed the topic to go in a strange direction to begin with.

Bringing things 180: Let's stop the ridiculous enmity discussion. The thread was about Reraise. I personally would like to see it. Obviously some are against it on the basis that it could make the game easier, and there's a bit of elitism about "well if everyone was doing their job, who cares about reraise". One thing we can all agree on though, is that what "end-game" is currently (which I haven't even begun to see yet, but it's not that far off for me either), will drastically change. And there are still spells/abilities that can 1 shot unfortunate souls. So, I can see a place for Reraise in the future.

I do agree with the posters who have said they wouldn't be against it if it had a sufficiently long recast. FFXIV isn't FFXI and isn't built around the ability to reraise and continue fighting in the same spot repeatedly, and the ability to do so repeatedly would diminish the difficulty of the game. In FFXI, the term used to describe people that relied on spamming raises and reraises to continue fighting a mob (usually NM) that they weren't equipped to handle was called "zombying". I certainly wouldn't want to see zombying in FFXIV, but I still think having the ability to reraise in the middle of an important quest/mission/battle would be immensely useful. If it had a long recast timer (at least 5 minutes) and was limited to DoM only, it affected self only, and incurred the same penalties as a normal Raise, then (I would hope) it would be limited enough to not incur mega opposition while still being a useful feature.

I've talked to people and we enjoy the idea of reraise in the raids not only for survivability but as a requirement for certain strategies. I remember Ark Angels fight being nearly impossible without at least one wipe.

Reraise may be a White mage only spell maybe that one of the spell they would unlock doing the quest.

The enmity discussion was brought up by you Chocobits, of course people are going to comment on it. There's a hate meter and enmity algorithm changes coming and that's all I'll say on enmity. There's a difference between elitism and playing well, if I play well and don't die I don't think I'm better than anyone I simply think I'm doing what's expected of me.

Of course it needs a sufficiently long recast timer and a huge MP cost, if not it needs to be restricted at least to only once per battle. Seems insignificant in smaller battles but with those aren't going to trouble you much anyway. It's the bosses and large encounters I'm concerned with, those battles that can last up to the 30 minute mark. Those who have done the R46 story quest, can you imagine how much easier it would be with Reraise? I mean not to say it was that hard once you figured it out but that would take any guesswork or timing out of it lol.

Again I'm not against its implementation, I just find it hilarious that people are mostly only accepting it because it's an FF tradition. Had this never come up before people would scoff at the idea of a spell that brings the user back to life if they die.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DoctorMog

Reraise is being saved for WHM.

---

This is the most practical application and chances are the most obvious as they are probably saving it for whm job.

Edit: On a side note to OP they discussed before game released about ws's this time around doing more than just dmg/debuffs but of course it never poked its head. Just hope to God that when jobs roll around WHM for instance doesn't have majority damage ws's. They can add in unique buffs/heal/or support abilities and even have your tp raised by healing rather than damaging the mob. Makes it ALOT more practical, fun, AND immersive!