Healing Turn 8 Question as SCH

Just wanted to know what everyone's opinion is as far as which pet to use whilst healing turn 8 as SCH. I've read threads how Eos is great with FC for towers, but also seen videos with people claiming that having Selene is the better of the two for dps purposes.

So what's your intake on the matter? I just thought it would be interesting to read into it some more before going at it in my own static group. Thanks

Also our set up is WHM/SCH. With me as sch, dispel/dotting if your curious.

It really depends on how your group is wiping. If your group is dying to things like enrage or dreadnaughts being up for too long, Selene can help that. If your group is wiping to things like AoE towers or just damage in general, Eos can help that.

Personally, I'd say if you are going 2 tanks, you should take Selene, and if you are solo tanking, you should take Eos. 4 DPS are more likely to need the benefit of Selene to meet enrage/dreadnaught timers. If you have 5 DPS, though, then you are likely better off with a little more healing oomph, since they should meet the enrage without too much difficulty. And you may want to go with Eos either way for learning at least. Don't get me wrong - if you need Selene to beat the enrage, you should swap to her, and even if you don't, there's something to be said about shortening fights to skip phases/reduce RNG, but if you haven't run turn 8 at all yet, you'll be more likely to benefit from Eos extending attempts so you can experience more mechanics.

I personally think Eos is the better fairy for the fight. You can more than make up for Selene's DPS-boost by off-DPSing yourself which becomes easier if you use Eos. Sure you can use Selene AND off-DPS but you have more leeway to do so using Eos, especially if you're solotanking it. Selene also makes the melee run out of TP even faster, which means more frequent TP-song. (Less of an issue if you only have 1 melee, we solotank it and have 2 melee). If there is some derping going on too, using Selene might also be the difference between needing a ballad (for the WHM or otherwise). At which point the bard would have to drop his own DPS via ballading and misses out on the opportunity to sing other songs on top of it.

I'm all in for using Selene when possible, but I don't see her being worth it for T8 - even when it's on farm and I know even my WHM can make it through the fight without a ballad at any point (with Eos).

I personally just use eos and pop Bio and Bio II whenever I can. Pretty happy so far.

If people are dieing to aoe damage, most likely you are doing the towers in poor order, or less likely your white mage is bad or your group is horribly under geared.
So selene 100%

Fairy choice literally shouldn't matter. Take your pick.

Eos all the way for a couple reasons:
SC->Rouse+Dawn can top everyone off after EVERY single explosion tower.
saving your mp and your whm buddy mp since its a long fight.
20% magic def helps a lot on many ocasions on that fight, mines, explosion, allagan field.
so if you dont have the dps needed to beat that fight, stop being a lot ...... and gear your dps first, cause i90 healers can beat the current content without problems, dps and tanks in other hand need more gear.

Edit: I forgot about the dot, just dont cleanse, its a waste of mp.
that dot ticks for like 300 and you are constantly healing the tank anyway, so just ignore. not only save your mp but you dont lose a GCD on the process.

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Originally Posted by Azell

Edit: I forgot about the dot, just dont cleanse, its a waste of mp.
that dot ticks for like 300 and you are constantly healing the tank anyway, so just ignore. not only save your mp but you dont lose a GCD on the process.

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Not that I disagree with any other points, but the dot ticks for about 600 per tick and is on a 15s timer, ticking 5x for overall 3000ish damage. Definitely not a waste of MP to cleanse it, especially before the Dreads if you solotank it. Can make for some nasty spikes in conjunction with other things.

Thanks for the replies. We do indeed solo tank it so I will be rolling with Eos for that. - Thanks much.

Absolutely Eos. In this fight you can make good use of all her abilities, especially if you are doing 1 tank strategy. As mentioned, this fight can put some serious strain on your and Whm's mps and Eos helps greatly with this. Namely in the last phase with multiple allagan fields where you want to use adlo pretty frequently (tank, allagan field's target, homming missile's target, etc...).

On the tank debuff, you should try to always dispell it, it's worth doing so. But I think it's a must when there is a Dreadnought around, it takes just a second to dispell it and the damage can get nasty there.

Selene is really good for farming purposes, but in harder content, you should almost always use Eos since it's most likely preventing unnecessary deaths or even wipes just by giving you and your healing partner some leeway.

If dps is too low i can assure you Selene will not necessarrely help you about that.
More S=tp burn faster and mana burn faster =bard must sing longer to recover that.Ofc it's you're wiping at like 1-2% selene will totaly help you.But if it's at 10% or + i don't think it'll help really.We solo tank this fight and Eos seems to be the best.

This is how my group do T8, we have WHM focus on Party (Cure3/Medica) healing and heal MT during Dread and have SCH focus on MT and allo on whoever got the allagan field

Eos is worthless on this fight...... when you take aoe damage you have like 30 seconds until you take more damage.

Selene is always a dps increase...

Solved.

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Originally Posted by Staris

Eos is worthless on this fight

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No, just no.

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Originally Posted by Staris

Eos is worthless on this fight...... when you take aoe damage you have like 30 seconds until you take more damage.

Selene is always a dps increase...

Solved.

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A) Eos is not worthless. Rouse+Whispering Dawn means the WHM might be able to skip a Cure 3, and Fey Illumination is available for every dreadnaught. Even if you NEVER use WD, Fey Illumination gives more healing than Selene.
B) Selene is not always a dps increase. She just lets classes use their resources more quickly. That may or may not be a good thing depending on what's holding your dps back. If they are running out of TP/MP, Selene does nothing for them. If there's a phase where they have to burst something down quickly and Selene's buffs let somebody get an extra global in, then she might be worth it.

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Originally Posted by Menae

A) Eos is not worthless. Rouse+Whispering Dawn means the WHM might be able to skip a Cure 3, and Fey Illumination is available for every dreadnaught. Even if you NEVER use WD, Fey Illumination gives more healing than Selene.
B) Selene is not always a dps increase. She just lets classes use their resources more quickly. That may or may not be a good thing depending on what's holding your dps back. If they are running out of TP/MP, Selene does nothing for them. If there's a phase where they have to burst something down quickly and Selene's buffs let somebody get an extra global in, then she might be worth it.

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Yep. My group has BRD, SMN, MNK, and DRG for DPS. The BRD has paeon on as much as he can as it is making Selene useless. With how much AEO damage the party takes and with dreads, there's no reason to not use Eos.

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Originally Posted by fuddlesworth

Yep. My group has BRD, SMN, MNK, and DRG for DPS. The BRD has paeon on as much as he can as it is making Selene useless. With how much AEO damage the party takes and with dreads, there's no reason to not use Eos.

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That's bad imo. Dragoons dont really have tp problems on that fight if you are not using selene. so only the monk is getting a real dps increase, but does he compensate for the 20% loss from the bard? AND for the 10% more dmg from the smn if he use foe?
so if your monk isnt doing 30% more dps you might wanna drop tp song, make the monk use his skills more wiselly and use foe instead.
spoiler alert: if that case is happening, your bard and smn are bad lol specially the smn.

if its a light party 1 heal 1 tank 2 dps use eos i say i place her in the middle of the boss room and she does her own work iv never used sele so i can't say but i will be soon

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Originally Posted by Azell

That's bad imo. Dragoons dont really have tp problems on that fight if you are not using selene. so only the monk is getting a real dps increase, but does he compensate for the 20% loss from the bard? AND for the 10% more dmg from the smn if he use foe?
so if your monk isnt doing 30% more dps you might wanna drop tp song, make the monk use his skills more wiselly and use foe instead.
spoiler alert: if that case is happening, your bard and smn are bad lol specially the smn.

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We do 1900 dps total. The MNK does around 410-420 and the DRG (missing i110 weapon) around 380.

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Originally Posted by fuddlesworth

We do 1900 dps total. The MNK does around 410-420 and the DRG (missing i110 weapon) around 380.

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I dont really understand how ppl can pull those number but takes forever to beat t8. In anycase selene is amazing for BLM and to a lesser extent SMn, faster med 2/Cure 3 is also pretty good. The skill speed doesnt really impact mnk too much. It really is just play with whats comfortable, no reason to converge on 1 strategy. Inflexible groups are bad groups.

Selene is almost always 100% useless unless you're doing fates or something. Use Eos. Turn 8 is pretty much a practice dummy so unless you have lots of casters people will start having TP issues. Not worth it.

Eos is nice for healing in later phases when you have double aoe towers. Most of the time a Medica II will be enough.
On our tries Selene buffs everyone's dps by ~ 30. (6 * 30 = 180) [Bard running out of TP]
For learning the fight you should use Eos, for later farming it you could go with Selene.

Tip: position your Faerie really close but behind the boss, so she won't get knocked around from the mines.

I have used selene for every progression fight. Simply put, the dps boost outweights anything Eos can bring to the table. Encounters generally don't require min-maxing your HPS, but rather learn when to heal and how to be more efficient.

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Originally Posted by neizero

I have used selene for every progression fight. Simply put, the dps boost outweights anything Eos can bring to the table. Encounters generally don't require min-maxing your HPS, but rather learn when to heal and how to be more efficient.

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Well, it's not necessarily an overall DPS boost, depending on what classes you have. BLM is the only one that really gets a large benefit from Selene; everyone else (and the melee in particular) are hurting for resources anyway.

Where it IS a DPS boost is in short timer mechanics - aka kill this in 20-30 seconds or bad things happen. There it's a measureable and meaningful increase, because assuming you go in with enough resources, it increases the number of skills you can execute prior to the bad things. Over the duration of an entire fight, however, the limiting factor isn't the number of abilities you can fit in but rather the TP or MP required to fuel those abilities. If you are waiting on TP, Selene could give infinity skill speed and it wouldn't matter.

I'm not saying don't use Selene; but I am saying there are reasons she might not make as big an impact as you assume.

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Originally Posted by Menae

Well, it's not necessarily an overall DPS boost, depending on what classes you have. BLM is the only one that really gets a large benefit from Selene; everyone else (and the melee in particular) are hurting for resources anyway.
...
I'm not saying don't use Selene; but I am saying there are reasons she might not make as big an impact as you assume.

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We measured it yesterday at Turn 8. Selene is a huge DPS boost throughout the entire fight, although you burn TP a little bit faster, the DDs can manage it and BRD plays a bit more TP song, but this doesn't hurt his DPS because he pulls more off as well in song-off times. So the theory about burning TP too fast and loosing DPS is wrong. The fight is doable with both fairies :) Simply take the fairy which compensates the bigger lack. Kill is kill, strategies differ and there is no ultimate solution. Selene pushed our group DPS by 170+-20.

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Originally Posted by DosonTheGreat

Selene is almost always 100% useless unless you're doing fates or something.

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ahahahahha

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Originally Posted by Grotesque

Selene pushed our group DPS by 170+-20.

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I'm curious what your group's total DPS was.

Just use what what you like. Everyone has anecdotal evidence to justify why either fairy is better. There is no black and white answer, because if there was everyone would use the same fairy.

Melees should be getting tp song + selene to achieve 400+++ dps in that fight

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Originally Posted by fuddlesworth

I'm curious what your group's total DPS was.

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1700 with EOS, 1860 with Selene

With ppl getting 110 Weapons now, this will increase I think. And as you become more comfortable at the fight, you also can optimize the dps

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Originally Posted by Grotesque

1700 with EOS, 1860 with Selene

With ppl getting 110 Weapons now, this will increase I think. And as you become more comfortable at the fight, you also can optimize the dps

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Is this with 5 DPS or at least with a warrior DPSing? 1700 is pretty low. Sounds like the DPS aren't pushing out enough. I can see why Selene would help in this case.

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Originally Posted by Grotesque

1700 with EOS, 1860 with Selene

With ppl getting 110 Weapons now, this will increase I think. And as you become more comfortable at the fight, you also can optimize the dps

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O.o Selene should only be increasing total DPS by like 2%, if you went up that much its for other reasons. More comfortable with fight, better CD and pot usage etc.

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Originally Posted by Airikay

O.o Selene should only be increasing total DPS by like 2%, if you went up that much its for other reasons. More comfortable with fight, better CD and pot usage etc.

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I don't know. We just stick to Eos for easier healing. DPS doesn't seem to be any problem, one-shotted it today. Next week with two more ppl getting 110 Weapon even more of a breeze once you have your personal tower rotation. Turn 9 is pure fun. Can't even be compared to any of the previous turns xD

Now it's time for some healer loot, not even saw one healer piece yet QQ

Selene to help push DPS so can skip the last Dread Tower then swift summon Eos for the end of the fight

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Originally Posted by Airikay

O.o Selene should only be increasing total DPS by like 2%, if you went up that much its for other reasons. More comfortable with fight, better CD and pot usage etc.

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This.

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Originally Posted by Miew

Selene to help push DPS so can skip the last Dread Tower then swift summon Eos for the end of the fight

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And this is what I do. Healing the fight until Allagan Field is a breeze if everyone is doing their job, but after that, having RouseDawn/Covenant handy for certain towers makes healing a heck of a lot more manageable.

Also, every healer should be meleeing the entire fight. There's really no excuse not to when you'll be within melee range. Some DPS is better than no DPS if you're not comfortable enough to throw on DoTs between towers/dreads where hardly any heals are required.

How are people coming up with only a 2% dps increase for selene? You have 30% speed buffs up for 50% or the time. That's equivalent to 15% speed increase 100% of the time. The actual benefit based on movement and disengages during the fight will vary obviously, but for something like Turn 8 you shouldn't be surprised to see a 10% dps increase. Melee running out of TP isn't even a concern if your party comp includes 1 competent bard.
All new turns can be done with either fairy, just a matter of doing what works best for your particular group, but 2% is really low~balling Selene.

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Originally Posted by HaelseMikiro

How are people coming up with only a 2% dps increase for selene? You have 30% speed buffs up for 50% or the time. That's equivalent to 15% speed increase 100% of the time.

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This doesn't equate with 30%/15% flat gains (minus the combat variables you mentioned). It just adds 30% to your current spell/skillspeed - which in turn has flaccid returns. Eg. going from a 2.44s Ruin to a 2.33s Ruin.

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Originally Posted by HaelseMikiro

How are people coming up with only a 2% dps increase for selene? You have 30% speed buffs up for 50% or the time. That's equivalent to 15% speed increase 100% of the time. The actual benefit based on movement and disengages during the fight will vary obviously, but for something like Turn 8 you shouldn't be surprised to see a 10% dps increase. Melee running out of TP isn't even a concern if your party comp includes 1 competent bard.
All new turns can be done with either fairy, just a matter of doing what works best for your particular group, but 2% is really low~balling Selene.

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That really depends on your comp. We run with 2 Summoners who get shit all from the Spell Speed buff, for example.

I take selene and switch to eos for the final phase when allagan field comes out along with double AoE towers. You can switch over when the mines/dread tower pops, I find having both is a great way to get ahead on dps and keep the benefits of extra healing when you need it the most.

Depends on party make up, if party is predominantly DRG, MNK, and BLM I will go with selene otherwise ill use Eos.