Common social flaws that most of us (myself included) are guilty of.

Being how I am, I like to observe how people react to certain situations. MMORPGs are easily one of the best places to find how a multitude of different people react to stressful situations. Some of these aren't just reactions. Some of the following examples are mentalities that we carry around with us. Lets get started.

Flaw #1: Believing yourself to be better than those around you, no matter the lack of evidence.

This is probably the most common of the flaws, I'd say. Quite a lot of people carry around an inferiority complex when playing MMORPGs. While there are indeed better players than others, a lot of the people that carry this mentality around are, in fact, not near as good as they believe themselves to be. A skilled and humble player truly is a rare breed. I think if some of us were to observe ourselves and our actions at a later time, we'd be downright disappointed at how we handled certain situations and treated others.

Flaw #2: The loose cannon.

This is actually something I find myself guilty of from time to time. This is a person that simply looses all sense of composure after very few, or very small mistakes. This person might also try to justify themselves with excuses such as "You're wasting my time!" or "It's not my job to teach you how to play the game!". I can think of, at least, a handful of times that I displayed myself as nothing more than an ass, and later found myself regretting my reaction. Being a loose cannon doesn't necessarily mean you have anger issues, as some may think. It does, however, speak volumes on how badly you handle stressful situations.

Flaw #3: The Troll.

This is someone who not only goes out of their way to get a negative reaction out of someone, but they find enjoyment in doing so. While we should all be able to laugh at a little lighthearted trolling every now and then, I think it's safe to say that we've all ran into that troll that really did get under our skin. Just someone that enjoys annoying people and making them angry (umad?). They also like to spread their anger-invoking shenanigans to forums...like these. As stated below, the best way to handle a troll is to simply not give them the reaction they're looking for. While that can be hard to do sometimes, a simple blacklist can go a long way.

Flaw #4: Being unable to take criticism.

Another flaw that many of us are guilty of. So many people take great offense to anything directed at them that doesn't happen to be a compliment. This is a flaw that I, thankfully, can say that I'm not guilty of. As long as you weren't personally attacked, there really isn't any reason to take offense. Perhaps someone offers you sound advice, or makes it known to you that you're doing something wrong. Instead of taking it as an insult, try considering the criticism first. You might actually learn how to do something better. People sharing information with you isn't a bad thing. Even if they do so in an immature way, they might still be right. Don't just assume that you know everything there is to know.

I'm sure there are other flaws I could have pointed out. I'll leave the extras up to you guys. If you enjoyed the read, throw it a like. If you didn't enjoy the read, that's OK too. At the end of the day, we're all human, we're all different, and we all handle situations in different ways.

Maybe you read it all, maybe you didn't, maybe you only read this sentence. Either way, I hope you enjoyed the thread. :cool:

I think it would be a good idea to add 'the person who reacts to trolls' onto that list, as the troll itself won't cause much havoc, unless there is an actual reaction.

Other than that, I think this list is comprised of the worst vices of MMORPGs these days. But, it's not just human behaviour, it's also facilitated by the mechanics of the game. The independence from other people in the game is one of the bigger reasons, as to why these vices are so widespread.

#1 is seen a lot in the mindset of "It's not me that has a problem, it's other people who can't do it!"
Not that there isn't truth to that sometimes - All the good skill in the world as a healer or DPS won't stop having a bad offtank from making Garuda EX a nightmare, for instance. But the idea that you personally can't play any better is pretty ridiculous.

I am not guilty of any of those.


ps - negative criticism is actually a bad thing and you can't fault someone for getting upset if that's what you meant. I think you meant positive criticism.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Garlyle

#1 is seen a lot in the mindset of "It's not me that has a problem, it's other people who can't do it!"
Not that there isn't truth to that sometimes - All the good skill in the world as a healer or DPS won't stop having a bad offtank from making Garuda EX a nightmare, for instance. But the idea that you personally can't play any better is pretty ridiculous.

---

This. Add in "talking big and yelling at everyone else when youre also dying a lot" I had a heals and dps in a titan ex run jumping one everyone else when we wiped but they died multiple times during the fight. I quickly put them in their respective places for it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Karnyboy

I am not guilty of any of those.


ps - negative criticism is actually a bad thing and you can't fault someone for getting upset if that's what you meant. I think you meant positive criticism.

---

He meant some people don't know how to take advice (aka negative criticism). "Don't tank there, tank here." "Don't pull with provoke, use shield lob."
Some people get mad when given those kinds of advice.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ItzKris

He meant some people don't know how to take advice (aka negative criticism). "Don't tank there, tank here." "Don't pull with provoke, use shield lob."
Some people get mad when given those kinds of advice.

---

Precisely. Some people just don't like to hear that they're doing something wrong, or could be doing something better. Instead of embracing the fact that they could be doing something wrong, they instead take offense.

This game has an astoundingly toxic community. I'm not sure where exactly it all comes from.

I think part of it is the story and grind from 1-50 being facefoll -I have to actively try to fail and even if I do I'll get the echo buff- easy & endgame can be -holy expletive batman dodging weight of the land/twisters- hard. I think the discrepancy in difficultly levels here causes a bit of problem #1, but then I look at games like League of Legends.

The entire pseudo anonymous instanced dungeons with people you may never see again means there are little consequences and tends to bring out the worst in some people. Reputations don't follow you like they used to back in the day. I wonder if they did would people still be jerks

"Welcome to the world. Everyone's different, everyone gets treated different. You try fighting that, you end up dying of TB." -Gregory House, M.D.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OranKells

This game has an astoundingly toxic community. I'm not sure where exactly it all comes from.

I think part of it is the story and grind from 1-50 being facefoll -I have to actively try to fail and even if I do I'll get the echo buff- easy & endgame can be -holy expletive batman dodging weight of the land/twisters- hard. I think the discrepancy in difficultly levels here causes a bit of problem #1, but then I look at games like League of Legends.

The entire pseudo anonymous instanced dungeons with people you may never see again means there are little consequences and tends to bring out the worst in some people. Reputations don't follow you like they used to back in the day. I wonder if they did would people still be jerks

---

A thousand times this. One's possible marred reputation kept bad attitudes in check back in the day. Now we have these DFs matching cross-server and no one feels any repercussion beyond their capacity for moral behavior. Personally I would feel far too guilty and shameful to act as some as these twits do. I don't think I'm a bad person, and it shows in how I treat other people, even if strangers.

There needs to be a cross-server DF blacklist to bring back the consequences of mistreating your fellow party members in DF. If you're a complete twit long enough, soon will your DF queues extend from 30 minutes to 5+ hours as the system tries desperately to find players who are still willing to play with you.

This would force the person to either issue a public apology on the forums, or, make a new character and hopefully have learned for the better.

All of the above.

I'm awesome. Mom told me so; she's infallible. You say otherwise and I'll punch you.

This also appears to be a uniquely American problem. I'm not saying there aren't trolls and bad players in japan or Europe, but reuse the other language forums and you don't see nearly as many threads about how bad players act.

I almost did #2. There is a lot of game design that exacerbates loose cannons. Group content that is difficult and requires grinding does this.

I almost lost it on Levi Ex one time in a mirror farming group. The group I joined had 4 DD in all ilevel 90 gear, they couldn't dps down the first set of spumes in time on first attempt. I mentioned dps needs to be higher after first attempt. After second attempt I said if dps doesn't improve I'm leaving on after the next attempt. I left after next attempt giving reason why.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OranKells

This game has an astoundingly toxic community. I'm not sure where exactly it all comes from.

I think part of it is the story and grind from 1-50 being facefoll -I have to actively try to fail and even if I do I'll get the echo buff- easy & endgame can be -holy expletive batman dodging weight of the land/twisters- hard. I think the discrepancy in difficultly levels here causes a bit of problem #1, but then I look at games like League of Legends.

The entire pseudo anonymous instanced dungeons with people you may never see again means there are little consequences and tends to bring out the worst in some people. Reputations don't follow you like they used to back in the day. I wonder if they did would people still be jerks

---

I think it's this game's number of new players mixed in with MMO vets. It just seems to be like there is a ALOT of new players compared to other MMOs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OranKells

This game has an astoundingly toxic community. I'm not sure where exactly it all comes from.

I think part of it is the story and grind from 1-50 being facefoll -I have to actively try to fail and even if I do I'll get the echo buff- easy & endgame can be -holy expletive batman dodging weight of the land/twisters- hard. I think the discrepancy in difficultly levels here causes a bit of problem #1, but then I look at games like League of Legends.

The entire pseudo anonymous instanced dungeons with people you may never see again means there are little consequences and tends to bring out the worst in some people. Reputations don't follow you like they used to back in the day. I wonder if they did would people still be jerks

---

I really would like to see how a game, that facilitates as easy/quick grouping as you can get, but within your own server, with the option to not get paired with people you don't wish to be paired with in the future. It'd be interesting to see how the community would become, if that sort of thing happened.

1) None of this applies to me because I'm better than your common player.
2) It's not my job to teach people how to fit into a community.
3) You mad?
4) Stop criticizing me it only makes you look bad.

The critisism point, i dont know about that. It revolves more about how much of a dick the person is.

I had two cases happen to me.

Case 1: I was on BLM, i have a Zenith on it, my ilvl is 75. I have an amazing paladin and i feel i know how to play it pretty well, but i dont want to tank all the time. I do know the fights and know how to beat things. I was fighting Garuda EX, a person was telling me my DPS output could be better. I took no offense, i know i hit minimum specs for the fight, but that it was more than doable with me on BLM. I rarely, if ever, got hit and we beat it down without much effort.

Case 2: I was on BLM, i have a Zenith on it, my ilvl is 75, we were doing some trash dungeon in the ilvl55 realm. Things were dying, fast, we were in no danger at all, and we were overobviously outgeared for the dungeon. A person told me my DPS wasnt that great. I took offense because it's a ilvl55 dungeon, i'm way overgeared for it, he's comparing me to what he is used to in Turn 2 Coil, and continued to berate my gear with "You're not wearing enough crit gear" because i'm obviously choosing not to wear any opposed to, you know, not having it.

To call taking offense to someone being a massive dick to you a "social flaw" on my part is a pretty big misinterpritation of the meaning of the word.

I have yet to ever find anyone in this game giving feedback the way one is supposed to. And as long as people set unrealistic goals for party members that they themselves might not even live up to, i will continue to take offense to anyone commenting on someone they deem inferior based on a moment's glimps.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raxion

Flaw #4: Being unable to take negative criticism.

---

Well I for sure wont take negative criticism. I'll take constructive or positive criticism but not a negative one.

Regardless the only thing I'm guilty of is hurting myself for giving constructive/positive criticism to other players that are replacing people with the same role as me in the long run for giving out my unique rotations to them. Now mega ethers cost twice as much. I ain't paying that much for mega ethers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OranKells

This also appears to be a uniquely American problem.

---

I'm going to agree that it is on the NA Servers. I've been in several debates where people have placed the blame on American players or those influenced by American culture, which I don't (necessarily) agree with.

Negative criticism is always going to sound combative. Society nowadays appears to be extremely sensitive toward anything that can be taken the wrong way compared to when I was younger playing online. It seems to be not just in games, but as a whole. However, people also need to understand that you don't have time to tell people things in the middle of combat if there is a message that you need to get out then and there, as quickly as possible. Unfortunately, me ranting about not being so sensitive isn't going to change the way anyone plays.

I also think the concept of "I In Team" (nb4MEinteam) could be considered a flaw. I've noticed that players in this game are extremely stiff and not flexible in the least. Everyone is so caught up in themselves and aren't willing to step out of their own box to help the team out. There is also a whole lot of "this is how I've been doing it for x months," when the part composition you are currently with has a completely different set of strengths and weaknesses compared to what that person experienced.

I have the opposite problem of number 1. I'm almost positive that I'm the weak link in every group. No matter what my FC/guild tries to tell me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ItzKris

He meant some people don't know how to take advice (aka negative criticism). "Don't tank there, tank here." "Don't pull with provoke, use shield lob."
Some people get mad when given those kinds of advice.

---

Well wouldn't that just be criticism?

Wish I saved a screenshot from my roulette last night, its perfect for this topic. I had a blm in amdapor last night, and I did a quick gear check to see what we had going on. This guy had allag gear, and was working on his animus. The rest of the group was equally equipped. So I would pull a couple groups at a time. The first couple waves, I noticed it was very slow killing everything off. Then I started to take notice of what was going on. The blm was doing Fire II, until empty, then blizzard III, then back again, not initiating Fire III to kick it off, no flare, if it was done it wasn't done with umbral 3. When there was only a couple mobs it was Fire III > Fire III > Fire III > Fire III > Blizzard III > Thunder/Blizzard III > Repeat. I advised this guy from the get go, I want to give him some advice, and I have no intention to offend.I explained to him how he should use Fire III only to switch to umbral fire, then do Fire I unless you get a freebee on Fire III. He said cool I'll try it. 10 mins into the dungeon, I didn't see him trying at all. So I kindly asked, if he had any intention to try it in the dungeon, and stated, it would really speed things up. At this point he said something along the lines of, "oh great another tank that thinks he can control the entire party, and everything they do". I was like woah, man just forget it, play how you want, I didn't intend to upset you. We get to the end of the run and he knew how to mark and do the doors, so I was happy with that. Maybe he thought it worked like FFXI, it never occured to me maybe that's what he thought. I'm not really sure. In the end the run took 35 minutes, and everyone was 85ilvl+, and we didn't wipe on any boss.

Anyhow this just goes back to whats been said. A lot of people are generally sensitive about being educated. They feel they do it well enough and its not something they feel they can improve upon much. I'm not sure if its just how our generation is, or what. But people are not willing to accept advice, because when they receive it, it automatically is assumed that advice = looking down on you. Or that it means something far worse then just, "here let me help you out friend." They interpret it as, "you suck do this or you are a complete noob".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raxion

Precisely. Some people just don't like to hear that they're doing something wrong, or could be doing something better. Instead of embracing the fact that they could be doing something wrong, they instead take offense.

---

People do not like to hear that they're doing something wrong in the tone and method most people use.

People on here seem to think that because I have a different opinion than they do, I must fall under the flaw of being a troll.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Karnyboy

I am not guilty of any of those.

---

and yet there's Flaw #1 right there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gormogon

Well I for sure wont take negative criticism. I'll take constructive or positive criticism but not a negative one.

Regardless the only thing I'm guilty of is hurting myself for giving constructive/positive criticism to other players that are replacing people with the same role as me in the long run for giving out my unique rotations to them. Now mega ethers cost twice as much. I ain't paying that much for mega ethers.

---

Negative criticism could be something as simple as telling someone that they're not doing something right. I think you have negative criticism confused with verbal assault, which is indeed not OK.

Sorry, not guilty of any of those... Im just too AWESOME *sniff*

Not guilty of any of those - we could wipe 5 times and I would not be bothered in the least, but I can be petty when peoplr won't let me do my job. If you run away while I'm casting protect or stoneskin at the beginning of the dungeon, I won't cast it on you again. Same goes for tanks who do it in my place - enjoy your crappy protect.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Drako

I'm not sure if its just how our generation is, or what. But people are not willing to accept advice, because when they receive it, it automatically is assumed that advice = looking down on you.

---

It is and it isn't. From my personal experience it is just simple stubbornness in most cases. "It's my way or the highway"

As I was growing up I was forced to teach English to 3 of my cousins. I tried but eventually it never happened between any of them. They had a hard time in school and they wanted to blame me instead of themselves or their parents that didn't want to supervise it. They preferred playing on my SNES over studying and I understand no kids wants that. I'm even bothering with my niece since she feels that being educated is some sort of superiority complex and that she wont ever need all that knowledge, she flunked that year of elementary, and my nephew has a sense of inferiority complex where he says he understands but he actually doesn't. Had my neighbor wanting me to help with her math homework and she actually just wanted the answers.

Individuals will always have their own individual reasons for acting the way they do to criticism. Yet for the most part people are just stubborn overall when it comes to criticism in which from my personal history and experience is because they grew up in an environment where they didn't have to deal with it.

As for this generation though the rate of "zero tolerance" is only increasing because they don't have to put up with at home so to be expected to put up with it in gaming is just not gonna happen.

I remember towards the end of vanilla WoW even though there was arguments it was more of a passionate discussion on trying to get better attempts for the next time around and at least we put in solid attempts for weeks if not months on end during those raiding schedules. Around the time the first expansion was announced I was in a guild made of friends so it was way more tolerable and way more lenient. When I joined a friend to go to a high end raiding guild for a while it wasn't that bad either. Guess I was just lucky to have this kind of experience.

Yet in FFXIV ARR while it was challenging to get a group of people to handle AK as well as Garuda/Titan HM and BCoB yet it wasn't that bad. If anything it was just depressing how easily people gave up on the content. 2.1 and CT well even though there was a lot of bickering and whining and wipes it was tolerable due to all the leniency in the mechanics which for me just made it overall enjoyable as a raiding experience and with the better gear it motivated some people to give solid attempts with the extreme primals and BCoB that people would just give up on. Yet as for 2.2 I've yet to be in a party that's willing to give solid attempts and progress through Thornmarch and Turn 6 not even 5 attempts in and people call it and say it's not happening despite being in the last phase of those 2 respective fights. Hell even Atma farming is a big deal.

I wonder how fast things would change if you got negative commendations alongside the positive commendations... And if they were public (in the sense that players can see it alongside your gear when examining). XD Not saying that would be a good thing, mind you, as it would most likely be abused just like everything else. (Another big negative would be whether or not they were permanent (as in that case how would you know if somebody had changed their behavior?), and if you were to offset good with bad then they still might not care if they have enough 'good' commendations to not mind the 'bad' commendations.)

But yeah, I agree with all the posts about the toxic community. I'm firmly in the camp that believes that people make or break your MMO experience, and lately I've just been seeing so much negativity among players that it can really ruin my personal game experience.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Issac

There needs to be a cross-server DF blacklist to bring back the consequences of mistreating your fellow party members in DF. If you're a complete twit long enough, soon will your DF queues extend from 30 minutes to 5+ hours as the system tries desperately to find players who are still willing to play with you.

This would force the person to either issue a public apology on the forums, or, make a new character and hopefully have learned for the better.

---

I am wholly in favor of this!

How about the impatient people that kick someone because its their first time in an instance

or

the rude people that Kick someone after getting to final boss so that they can invite a colleague to join instead

I have encountered both of these and it's not very nice at all
:(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ItzKris

He meant some people don't know how to take advice (aka negative criticism). "Don't tank there, tank here." "Don't pull with provoke, use shield lob."
Some people get mad when given those kinds of advice.

---

Um.. "Don't tank there, tank here" isn't negative criticism - it's criticism, and could also be called positive criticism or constructive criticism. Nothing negative about it. Negative criticism would be "You're a rubbish tank, loser".

I think the point originally made was meant to be about normal/positive/constructive criticism being something that some people have a problem taking in a positive way, but for some reason used the phrase "negative criticism". I wouldn't blame anyone for getting upset about negative criticism, there is no need for it. Other kinds of criticism like the above example of "don't tank there, tank here" are obviously fine, and I agree with the point that some people need to be less sensitive to such things.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raxion

Snip

---

Liked the thread, but loved number #4. When I want to be that player that gives them advice, I try to give constructive criticism - you know, give a compliment, then give them advice on what to prove on - but it blows up in my face. It's even worse when the same people complain about their DPS being too low, or ask why people are being killed, or they begin to pin the blame on others, when it is them. It upsets me, but when it does happen, I have a tendency to not say a word now, because I am tired of having the thing explode.

Granted, I never used to take criticism well, but after quite a few critique sessions in my bachelor's and graduate courses, I learned it's not all bad. Here's the best advice I can give:

Be a bit more open minded and listen what others have to say before you act defensive, because the improvements you do as a result may just make you feel a bit better about your skill. Frankly, I was told my DPS sucked as a DRG before, but I stood there, took the advice, then did some extra studying on the side, and now my DPS is pretty impressive, but I have to thank those that told me that my DPS was pretty poor originally. I wouldn't have gotten far without 'em. :)

My problem is that I have low self-confidence, and that makes me too nervous to play properly around people I don't know. I'm fine when I'm in a group with friends, but I've been burned by so many trolls, haters, and hardcore speedrunners that I'm terrified of DF. It's like in RL when you are in a social setting with people you don't know, and you end up being so nervous that you say something stupid, tell a joke poorly, or trip and fall on your face -- even though you are normally pretty eloquent, funny, and coordinated in settings where you are comfortable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sivara

....

---

no sweat, you can always say in advance "if anything goes wrong, itss the controllers fault".., which an takeway some pressure (which I'm starting to say -.-' .. because it's true. the #@%!& lock on system is on the PS4, is kind of a big challenge)

what I don't like so much, are speedrunners (the game is so gorgeous, it should be played at a slow-ish pace..).. but other who insult because you do mistakes or whatever, are among the worst...

@ constructive criticism

when you just say, what to do or how to do it, it should really be taken as constructive criticism.., but younger gamers probably feel like they're being patronized or something and take it wrongly..

This is absolutely great idea!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Issac

A thousand times this. One's possible marred reputation kept bad attitudes in check back in the day. Now we have these DFs matching cross-server and no one feels any repercussion beyond their capacity for moral behavior. Personally I would feel far too guilty and shameful to act as some as these twits do. I don't think I'm a bad person, and it shows in how I treat other people, even if strangers.

There needs to be a cross-server DF blacklist to bring back the consequences of mistreating your fellow party members in DF. If you're a complete twit long enough, soon will your DF queues extend from 30 minutes to 5+ hours as the system tries desperately to find players who are still willing to play with you.

This would force the person to either issue a public apology on the forums, or, make a new character and hopefully have learned for the better.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Issac

A thousand times this. One's possible marred reputation kept bad attitudes in check back in the day. Now we have these DFs matching cross-server and no one feels any repercussion beyond their capacity for moral behavior. Personally I would feel far too guilty and shameful to act as some as these twits do. I don't think I'm a bad person, and it shows in how I treat other people, even if strangers.

There needs to be a cross-server DF blacklist to bring back the consequences of mistreating your fellow party members in DF. If you're a complete twit long enough, soon will your DF queues extend from 30 minutes to 5+ hours as the system tries desperately to find players who are still willing to play with you.

This would force the person to either issue a public apology on the forums, or, make a new character and hopefully have learned for the better.

---

While I like the message that a feature like this would send, I don't know how I feel about the idea of it. It would be an absolute death sentence for the more distasteful players. It would eventually come to a point of no return. There'd be no way for them to reform. They'd be permanently locked out, even if they changed their ways. I'd like to sock it to the buttheads as much as anyone, but something that ruins their gaming experience entirely isn't really in good taste.

Perhaps if they were to add the cross-server blacklisting, but it only applied for a set amount of time. Like say, your instance blacklist would clear a players name automatically after 3-5 days. This would still serve the same purpose, but wouldn't completely crucify the offending player.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Teroril

I think it would be a good idea to add 'the person who reacts to trolls' onto that list, as the troll itself won't cause much havoc, unless there is an actual reaction.

---

The troll can just not troll :)

If there's no action, there's no reaction.