Names for Tempering

This has probably come up before and will eventually come up again but with 2.2's release we have been given different terminology for the Tempering process when it comes to the Lord of the Whorl: Drowning/Drowned.

To that end while we know that at least two other races for the sake of simplicity have used Tempering/Tempered, would not each Primal have a name to the process that reflects their natures? Ifrit has claim on Tempering, as it was first brought up when we met him in the game. The name also fits as tempering is also related to fire, one tempers a blade to make it stronger and remove its "impurities." and while sylphs are referred to as tempered in a couple of FATEs (mob names, descriptions, etc.) I feel a better name for the Ramuh's claimed might reflect his elemental nature. The same can be said for Garuda, Titan, and Shiva: different names for the same process.


Titan I feel could calls his process (if we ever seen him use it) Burying or Crushing maybe even Entombing. For Shiva, Frozen and Freezing comes to mind. I am uncertain what Garuda might call the process, save that she uses it as the worst punishment possible if the story is used as an example. What do you all think of this? Would the primals be content with a simple name process? I honestly do not think so. These aetheric entities are too prideful and gluttonous for power to have the same process be called the same thing.

AFAIR, Titan "enthralls" slaves. Ifrit definitely has his claim on "tempering." Ramuh's effect is known as being "touched."

There are some mobs in the Sahagin area that are "Drowned" so there's that.
Perhaps it is simply that we (our characters and the Scions) simply use tempering as a generic term to refer to the process because Ifrit was the first one that we ran in to. As far was what the Primals or their followers call the process, I agree that it should refer to something corresponding to their element.
Maybe Garuda's can be "Flayed"? But now that I think about it, I don't remember seeing any tempered forces in Garuda's employ. Or Titan's for that matter. I only remember Ifrit and Leviathan as having tempered forces. Even Ramuh seems to only be concentrating his tempering on the Sylphs.

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Originally Posted by Kicha

Even Ramuh seems to only be concentrating his tempering on the Sylphs.

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That's because no one really interacts with the sylphs. Probably because this one is tired of those ones referring to this one as this one.

Mr.T pity's the fool that don't talk about themself in the third-person perspective. Jesus christ, Even Yoda was more tolerable than sylphs.

A lot of this confusion stems from the fact that Ifrit was the first primal to show off the capability. The word "TEMPER" can mean either "to moderate or control" or "to strengthen with heat." A lot of people assume that the word is associated with Ifrit, Lord of the Inferno, through the second definition - especially when contrasted to Leviathan, Lord of the Whorl, and his habit of "DROWNING" people (a term that's been in since 2.0 if you experienced Lominsa's city-specific introduction).

The thing is, a lot of the in-game flavor text refers to the sylphs being TEMPERED in the "Levinlight" of Ramuh. So is temper for all primals? Or did they borrow Ifrit's word for use with Ramuh? If the former, why avoid it for Leviathan's thralls? If the latter, why not go back and localize something less confusing for Ramuh? I guess we'll have to wait for more on Titan or Shiva.

I don't know what to say, otherwise - it could go either way.

Based on the Sylphs, I'm of a mind to say that it's been Tempering (the first definition) for all primals all the time and that "The Drowned" has been a term Lominsans were using since before they knew what tempering was. We seemed to only vaguely understand that tempering existed in 1572 and Leviathan had been creating Serpent Reavers (as far as we can tell) since ten years earlier... except the new beast tribe story for Levaithan, much to my frustration, has nothing to do with their relationship with Leviathan in any way whatsoever as far as I can tell. In fact, it seems to imply that Leviathan had little to do with it in spite of his appearance at exactly the same time as the Sahagin became more violent.

I'm more confused than ever, in some regards.

Actually, Moose, Sylphs use the word "Touched" for their kind who have been taken by Ramuh. I think somewhere, there's mention of Titan Crushing his followers. If you read a lot of the story quests from around 25 though, the Sylphs like to say "The Touched-ones" when referring to Ramuh's Sylphs. I think Garuda is the only one who hasn't seen a term used, but it would probably be choked or rasped.

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Originally Posted by Lusavari

Actually, Moose, Sylphs use the word "Touched" for their kind who have been taken by Ramuh.

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That's just the thing - only the sylphs use that word. The non-sylph NPCs, journal entries, and FATE descriptions all call them tempered, which shouldn't be the case if every primal has a unique term attached to their "blessing." Even the mob itself is called Tempered Sylph, akin to the Drowned mobs in La Noscea.

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Originally Posted by THUNDERSTRUCK (Lv. 23 FATE)

Sylphs tempered in the levin-light of the primal Ramuh have descended into Little Solace to abduct their untempered brethren. Protect the innocent by delivering lightning-swift justice to the perpetrators.

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I'm not saying there's not some uniformity here somewhere, I'm just saying that there's way too much ambiguity for me to jump on the bandwagon of "This is Canon." Touched could very well be the true name for it; light can't do much else to you. Then again, the first time they said it, I thought they meant... you know... <taps head> "Touched."

For what it's worth, the Garuda quest uses both terms, and touched is just a general catch-all for what Garuda thinks Hydaelyn does.

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Originally Posted by Lady of the Vortex

Amidst the whirling winds, you succeed in striking down the Lady of the Vortex, only to see her rise once more, reinvigorated by the belief of her Ixali disciples. Yet the beastmen's prayers come to naught when Garuda's attempt to temper you fails, prompting a mysterious force to tear a Crystal of Light from her breast.

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Originally Posted by Garuda

That foul stench... I see now... She has touched you!

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Still more for Titan, where Wheiskaet, who is determining whether or not you'll be good enough to beat Titan, says that Titan's inability to temper you won't be enough.

Again, not saying there aren't different terms, I'm just saying that if there are, there's not enough consistency for confidence.

I was once the believer of different terms - I made a post about it a while ago. But Mr. Moose is right - there are different groups of people, within the game world, who refer to "tempering" as different terminology (Limsans with the drowning, sylphs with the touching, etc), but "tempered" seems to be the universal term used by those in the know within the game lore.

Did tempering appear in 1.0? I think it would be useful to investigate some of that history. In the mean time, I think that "temper" just took off because it was the easiest term to use universally, and it was used so the player didn't get confused. Unlike us lore junkies, most people don't want to have to keep up with 8 or 9 terms for something.

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Originally Posted by Lusavari

Did tempering appear in 1.0?

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Kind of. The term did not, but Ifrit did temper some people and it was a big mystery exactly what he did to make them worship him or why we were immune (we knew we were "blessed" by something, but what it was was up for grabs. We used to joke about Siren because for a little bit there, Siren as an unseen Wandering Races primal made some sense; I liked that theory for a time).

The Ascian/Primal arc in 1.0 then paused for a side-story about an Ala Mhigan resistance group trying to rebel against the Imperial foothold in Mor Dhona, but after Gaius utterly crushed them in one of the most badass character introductions ever, the story stopped with Thancred/Y'shtola/Yda/Papalymo saying that they would continue searching for what mysterious force blessed us and what the limits of our power truly were. After Yoshida took over, though, that story was halted and the Seventh Umbral Era storyline came instead.

We were supposed to come back to the Ascian / Primal arc at Level 52 with the revelation that the Reaper Ascian was the entity the beast tribes were so afraid of in the first place and that one was currently attacking Mt. O'Ghomoro. Upon arriving there, Titan had been summoned by the terrified Kobold and the Company of Heroes was attempting to put him down, but some were tempered in the process, leading to a discussion about what tempering was (again, though, I don't think the term was used even in that unreleased quest). None of that ever happened, a huge amount of the 1.0 storyline was scrapped for parts, and we got A Realm Reborn's "second chance" at telling the story more coherently.

Some of the old story can be pieced back together, a little bit of it will be expanded on the ARR's future, and a lot of it is seemingly no longer canon. Which is which remains to be seen.

(BRING BACK STHALMANN! <is dragged out of the room while shouting, "STHALMANN LIVES!">)

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Originally Posted by Lusavari

Unlike us lore junkies, most people don't want to have to keep up with 8 or 9 terms for something.

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They could always add several terms and just refer to them all as "blessings," if they wanted to; the whole blessing/curse binary plays into icon gods pretty well. I think what's stopping them is that there doesn't seem to be a cap on the number of future primals. Sure we have the six + two big names, but there are a lot more coming, some completely out of left field according to Yoshida's teasing. Can they really come up with that many terms? It's easier to just fall back on the "control/moderate" definition of temper and be done with it unless spicing up the flavor text with some cultural perception.

Ironically enough, after going back through my 1.0 screenshots, it indeed seems that there was only one instance of tempering being actually referred to as such in 1.0, and it was stated by the most unlikely of sources, an apparent tempered themself! (during the main scenario quest 'Lord Errant' when the player is captured by the amalj'aa and held prisoner briefly in that cell in Zan'rak with several other prisoners):

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Originally Posted by version 1.0 npc 'Emotionless Prisoner'

"Once you have been tempered in the flames, you shall be born anew. As was I."

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Perhaps even more interesting is the fact that if this npc really was tempered, the fact he actually comprehended his situation and actually knew what had happened to him, seems to blow away completely the idea that tempered lose their 'free will' - in actual fact, it seems more accurate that tempering removes a person's will to resist and become docile, while still retaining their consciousness more or less. Or at least, the response of that npc seemed to suggest that.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

"Tempered"

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Maybe "Tempered" is the term the five races generically use while the actual beastmen races have their own word for it. As mentioned in earlier posts, every beast clan except for Garuda has used a different term for their Primal enthralling their associated beastmen followers/kidnapped slaves. (the latter in the case of Ifrit)

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

If this npc really was tempered, the fact he actually comprehended his situation and actually knew what had happened to him, seems to blow away completely the idea that tempered lose their 'free will' - in actual fact, it seems more accurate that tempering removes a person's will to resist and become docile, while still retaining their consciousness more or less. Or at least, the response of that npc seemed to suggest that.

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That or in 2010, the NPC meant the "strengthened with heat" definition of the word and it coincidentally would later carry the "moderate/control" definition for other primals. It's so hard to tell with an ambiguous phrase like that. In the unreleased Titan quest I mentioned earlier, one of the "blessed" Company of Heroes members goes straight from "From dust you came and to dust you shall return!" to "Friend... Father... Bestow upon us your blessing benevolent Lord of Crags!" (translations inexact), so I wouldn't as quick to say they weren't rendered mindlessly enthralled in 1.0, too. Though, part of the quest did say that being claimed by a primal isn't a static effect and some were more dangerous than others.

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Originally Posted by Orophin

Maybe "Tempered" is the term the five races generically use while the actual beastmen races have their own word for it.

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This would be an interesting way to go about it, though everyone (including the journal and system text) using the Amalj'aa race-specific term is awkward if that's the case. Unless each race would refer to all blessings by that name... would the Sylphs call the Amalj'aa touched? Would the Sahagin say the Amalj'aa drowned in Hellfi-no, that's not right.

Yeah, no, I've still got nothing, lol.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

This would be an interesting way to go about it, though everyone (including the journal and system text) using the Amalj'aa race-specific term is awkward if that's the case. Unless each race would refer to all blessings by that name... would the Sylphs call the Amalj'aa touched? Would the Sahagin say the Amalj'aa drowned in Hellfi-no, that's not right.

Yeah, no, I've still got nothing, lol.

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I wonder if the names came about from the way the Primal tempers their new followers; Ifrit bathes them in flames (tempers), Leviathan literally drowns them (in some magical water that doesn't kill them, just changes them), Ramuh may physically touch them, and so on.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

Ramuh may physically touch them, and so on.

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There's something about that image of an old man touching little sylphs...*shudders*

Personally I've been putting it down to geographical separation. Ifrit was the first primal summoned in mainland Aldenard and tempers everyone and their mongoose. Because of this he would be the first primal most Eorzeans think of, so when they think of "tempering" they think of Ifrit tempering. This would also of course spread to Vylbrand, but wouldn't gain as much traction there because the island already has experience with a primal who has been tempering people (assuming he did this the previous times he was summoned and drowning isn't recent tactic). Why use a different term when you already have one? The other primals may have specific terms for it (like touched which may just be what the Syplhs call it instead of pertaining specifically to Ramuh), but as Ifrit and Leviathan are the most prolific temperers their terms would be the most used.

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Originally Posted by finiteHP

This would also of course spread to Vylbrand, but wouldn't gain as much traction there because the island already has experience with a primal who has been tempering people (assuming he did this the previous times he was summoned and drowning isn't recent tactic).

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This idea of geographical and chronological order makes the most sense to me in an ARR capacity, in some ways. I've been afraid to latch onto it too hard because it falls back on making assumptions about what in 1.0 is still considered canon. Titan and Leviathan were first summoned around the same time and we never learned how Titan's tempering was referred to. Even the term "Drowned" didn't show up until ARR - in 1.0 they were just despicable pirates who'd abandoned their kin to "take up the Sahagin god." After Ifrit tempers some people, one Small Talk NPC inside an instance simply muses "I've heard rumors the beast tribes brainwash people - maybe that's what the Serpent Ravers are!" and left it at just "brainwashing."

Methinks I may need to go back to the Japanese transcripts of unreleased quests I got from some interblogz forever ago and attempt a more dutiful translation.

You think SE would pull the threads down if I tried to crowdsource some translations via Google Docs? lol

Hmmm.... Depends... I don't think they'd do it as long as it's 1.) 1.0 Material and 2.) never includes unreleased 2.0 Material or music, and is not making anything available for download in some way.

Short version, as long as it's not spoilers or costing them money, I don't think they'll mind. Especially if it's the lore community who is just super involved in figuring out the story based on what's presented.

Um, I thought the first primal summoned was the unknown on that stopped the first Garlamund invasion force to the north of Ala Mhigo? Or did that one never 'temper' anyone?

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Originally Posted by Lusavari

Short version, as long as it's not spoilers or costing them money, I don't think they'll mind.

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Nah, it'd just be a two-column spreadsheet with the original Japanese text on one side and an "insert your best translation here" column opposite.

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Originally Posted by Grayve

Um, I thought the first primal summoned was the unknown on that stopped the first Garlamund invasion force to the north of Ala Mhigo? Or did that one never 'temper' anyone?

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It's hard to use that incident as evidence for anything in either direction because we know nothing about it. Forget whether or not it tempered anything, we don't even know who or what it was. The wording they used is incredibly ambiguous and doesn't fit in with the surrounding lore. For instance, we know the primal was sighted after the taking of Ala Mhigo, but not whether it was before the Battle of Silvertear Skies. The wording they use, "shortly after," implies the former, yet the entire reason Gaius was ordered to take Silvertear in the first place (according to the information I was given to assist in building the White Raven summary) was to prevent the beast tribes from learning to harness the aether there to summon primals, as the Empire feared it would only embolden the conquered nations of of the East to start summoning their own primals in rebellion once again and then Garlemald would be facing two continents' worth of unkillable demigods. You see where that's super confusing? Silvertear Skies was five years after Ala Mhigo - not "shortly" later by any means - yet anything before that likely wasn't the work of the beast tribes, as the culmination of that battle is what broke the seal that seems to have begun this whole Beast Tribe / Ascian / Primal thing in Eorzea the first place.

Leviathan, Titan, Ifrit, and Garuda are all shortly after the Battle of Silvertear skies, Shiva's tribe isn't even here yet, Odin wasn't broken out of his crystal until the Calamity, and Bahamut was still in space. This leads some people to guess Ramuh, as the Empire would have been advancing from Ala Mhigo to march on Gridania through the Black Shroud, right into Sylph territory ... yet we have no evidence of Paragon activity pre-1562, there were no tempered Sylphs in 1.0, conversations with them at that time included vows they'd never summon him, and in ARR, you seem to be told that they only summoned him once - seemingly in response to the raising of Castrum Oriens - and those who were involved were immediately tempered and forced them out of the Sylphlands (where they were still living and just fine in 1.0 before the Empire broke in at the end, there).

SE has never revisited this, and when I asked about it specifically to try to clear it up, I was told was, "Please look forward to it."

Soooo... please look forward to it? ><

You know Moose, the more I think of it the more I think the mysterious Primal that so put the fear of the gods into the XIVth shortly after the fall of Ala Mhigo was just a mislabeling of Midgardsormr on SE's part, as they called Midgardsormr 'an elder Primal' on the 'Waning of the Sixth Sun' recap disc on the Collector's Edition, only to then state that was a mistake.

So it's likely the labeling of a 'Primal' appearing to halt the Garlean advance is just another typo in the same way (it fits the time frame for the supposed incident, and also remember that during the Battle of Silvertear Skies, when the Agrius crashed and ruptured the seal in Silvertear Lake, Primals in fact did appear - but not just one, hundreds of them shot out of the aether at high speed.).

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

So it's likely the labeling of a 'Primal' appearing to halt the Garlean advance is just another typo in the same way

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I've often wondered that myself; especially considering "shortly after" could easily be five years when compared to the fact that usually, when this incident is brought up, we're being told a history that spans from the Empire's founding all the way up through the conquering of the East to the invasion of Eorzea. The only thing stopping me from just believing that and calling it a day is that, if this was indeed an error, how did they go from using it on the original FFXIV Promotional website to REUSING it on the ARR promotional website and never noticing the mistake? And then on top of that watching us try to figure it out for years without ever stopping in like, "You can let that go, now. That was our bad. Sorry!"

All they'd have had to do is say, like, "so, when we said 'a primal' what we really meant was 'the primals,' you know, after Silvertear."

I really do look forward to it, as this is really conflicting and challenging to my headfruit!

And yet, I feel that it does not mean Silvertear at all - I feel that this "primal siting" is what helped spur on the Garleans to first of all, build up appropriate weaponry and airships, and then to attack in the battle of Silvertear, in a tactic that they thought would ensure it doesn't happen again/a primal could not stop their advance.


At that point in time, though, how did the Garleans perceive the Eikons to be beatable? By genocide of the beastmen? Did they have access to the ultimate weapon then? If a primal was summonable without the seal being broken, than that seems anticlimactic - there was no point to break the seal, really.

I've mentioned this previously, but my theory is that there was some sort of elder primal in the region of Ala Mhigo, trapped within some sort of device and accidentally/purposefully released a la Bahamut and Odin. It may not need to be summoned, then, and indeed would enjoy bloody retribution upon release. With the Ultimate Weapon being buried underneath Ala Mhigo, there indeed could be other technology which had the capability to entrap primals in the region. The summoner quest line shows evidence that that Allag were capable of summoning elder primals as egi - so a conclusion would be that they were able to defeat elder primals in battle.

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Originally Posted by Kyan

At that point in time, though, how did the Garleans perceive the Eikons to be beatable? By genocide of the beastmen? Did they have access to the ultimate weapon then? If a primal was summonable without the seal being broken, than that seems anticlimactic - there was no point to break the seal, really.

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As far as the Empire knew then or knows now, the Primals truly are unbeatable, technically, no? You can conquer the summoners until they can no longer summon, you can trap the essences with ancient technology, but you cannot destroy them as yet we've seen. The Garleans suffered massive casualties putting down the primals of the East when they conquered Othard and they didn't want that to happen again in Eorzea. Lahabrea didn't come to Gaius in Ala Mhigo to reveal Ultima Weapon buried beneath it until after the Calamity, it seems. The breaking of the seal was likely accidental. All the Garleans wanted was to take control of the aetherial super-confluence at Mor Dhona to stop the tribes from harnessing it, but Midgardsormr awoke and called forth a host of dragons large enough to challenge the Garlean armada - the seal wouldn't have broken if Midgardsormr didn't crash Agrius into Silvertear Lake and set off the massive ceruleum explosion. Hell, there's no indication so far that they even really understood that a seal was there or what it did.

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Originally Posted by Kyan

my theory is that there was some sort of elder primal in the region of Ala Mhigo

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Unless it happened after Silvertear, that's one of the few possibilities I can think of. I've stopped trying to figure it out. For all I know, the Ultima Weapon still had a Primal in the tank from the Third Astral Era and someone shook it loose in that whole civil war and Garlean occupation (probably not, but with a door open that wide, why speculate too seriously?)

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Originally Posted by Kyan

The summoner quest line shows evidence that that Allag were capable of summoning elder primals as egi - so a conclusion would be that they were able to defeat elder primals in battle.

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That quest line actually makes me question if an elder primal is anything but a primal from a bygone era. For instance, if Garuda was trapped in the Ultima Weapon and forgotten until long after the Ixal went extinct and then she was released - would she be an elder primal? Was there anything special about Belias aside from the fact he was another era's fire primal? All that questline really showed us was that the Asians could, it seems, via the soulstone of long-dead Allagan summoners, bring back the memory of a primal whose summoners, too, were long gone.

I think they wanted all this to be kind of vague, lol.

I understand primals not being truly beatable, which is why I guess I want to understand what the Garleans thought process was in regards to them. Surely they would have experienced this in Othard, yet overcame it. Was this through genocide of the Othardian beast tribes? If you remove the tribes, there is no one to summon the primal. At what point to they start listening to the advice of Ascians?

Yes, it is vague in a way, yet particular in mentioning little points which really makes me anxious with anticipation. This is why I like focusing on learning about the other continents - that makes me satisfied! This history and lore stuff just makes me frustrated! xD

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Originally Posted by Kyan

Was this through genocide of the Othardian beast tribes? If you remove the tribes, there is no one to summon the primal.

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That's a big unknown. We know they fought primals there, but under what circumstance? Were the beast tribes from outside of the cities like they are in Eorzea, or were they the primary inhabitants of said cities? Were they even "beast tribes" or were they just "people?" We know they have at least a couple of "the wandering races" there, in addition to whatever race the Doma are (inb4 Domans = beast tribes conspiracy theories). Did they have their own icon gods? Were the Ascians involved there before they came here? What then was the significance of the Silverlake seal? Was there one there? How long as the fall of the Sixth Astral Era really been in motion if Primals preexisted Hydaelyn's echo? Why do I have the feeling this is going to remain unanswered until we go there in a far-off expansion pack?

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Originally Posted by Kyan

At what point to they start listening to the advice of Ascians?

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This one is much easier. The Black Wolf's second invasion was implied to be of his own doing, completely independent of the homeland. When the XIVth Tribuni arrived, Nero and Livia spoke of the Emperor having one foot in the grave and the other desperately clinging to his throne as rivals began to vie for power. By the time the Domans show up, they claim that a full-scale war of succession is being waged in Garlemald. I think it's heavily implied that when unrest engulfed the homeland, Lahabrea came to Gaius in an hour of desperation - he'd failed to gain a foothold beyond Ala Mhigo (1557), failed to take Silvertear without incident and lost Agrius (1562), and was holding a stalemate for ten years before being put under the command of a primal-worshiping, moon-dropping maniac. This was Gaius' last chance to win back the respect and power that he'd lost, to be seen as The Black Wolf once again. He stretched himself to his limits and was desperate to succeed - that's when the Ascians come for you. Same with Thancred, save for the fact Thancred had to be taken over rather than just manipulated.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Why do I have the feeling this is going to remain unanswered until we go there in a far-off expansion pack?

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Very true. I'm willing to have my Eorzean passport stamped and go an an adventure to find out! :D

I know it will be a while to find answers, but I have to ask these questions to get them out of my mind or I'll go crazy! And very true about who summoned primals. It could be beastmen or people.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Titan and Leviathan were first summoned around the same time and we never learned how Titan's tempering was referred to. Even the term "Drowned" didn't show up until ARR - in 1.0 they were just despicable pirates who'd abandoned their kin to "take up the Sahagin god." After Ifrit tempers some people, one Small Talk NPC inside an instance simply muses "I've heard rumors the beast tribes brainwash people - maybe that's what the Serpent Ravers are!" and left it at just "brainwashing."

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I haven't really put much thought into Titan's tempering in my theory because the only real instance we have of him doing so at all is in the unreleased scenes when he was in danger. If Titan's tempering isn't as common an occurrence as Leviathan's, people would think of Leviathan's most often. Assuming Leviathan even did drowning back then. Your sentence about the reavers being 'despicable pirates who'd abandoned their kin to "take up the Sahagin god"' reminded me one of the Sahagin quests. It is "An Enthralling Engagement". I don't have text right here, but Seww mentions that there is a "finless" cult that worships Leviathan and the reavers are parts of this cult. He mentions that conflict wouldn't arise as much if the Reavers stopped forcing others to worship him unwillingly. This makes me think that the drowning might be a recent tactic. Willing worshippers (like mentioned in 1.0) wouldn't HAVE to be tempered. If that's the case my theory of why Limsa thinks of drowning loses some oomph.

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Originally Posted by Kyan

I understand primals not being truly beatable, which is why I guess I want to understand what the Garleans thought process was in regards to them. Surely they would have experienced this in Othard, yet overcame it. Was this through genocide of the Othardian beast tribes? If you remove the tribes, there is no one to summon the primal. At what point to they start listening to the advice of Ascians?

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Here's something that popped into my head without any proof to back it up. We know that there is a difference in the amount of aether in different parts of the world (Eorzea has a higher than normal amount for example). What if the summoning of the Othard primals drained too much of Othard's already lower aether for them to be summoned anymore? Would that be able to happen without Eozea's aether being affected?

I am looking forward to it! Super hard! I hate unanswered questions, and really hope this gets resolution.