Garuda EX

So I ran a couple times last night with a DF group. Mentioning that I was new to EX, I asked the tanks some general questions about tanking Garuda (I was Monk at the time). Specifically regarding Slipstreams. Of course, they say NOT to stand in them but what happens when we actually go through the fight? Tanks standing in Slipstream, even having them pointed AT the party.

So… what gives?

That and OT not taking Suparna away from Garuda after Chirada's downed. I really want to learn this fight as I intend to tank it at some point.

Tanking really is easy in this fight. as MT your jobs are:

Pre-spiny:
Take Garuda and Suprana when they spawn.
Build up a little hate on Suprana but stop attacking when Chirada Dies.
OT should provoke Suprana off of you and take it to the Northeast.

Center Phase:
Grab Garuda and help kill the plumes.
When the OT has 2 stacks of the debuff provoke the Spiny off and dps it down to 1/2 hp if it isnt already.

The fun phase:
Its easiest for everyone to just mark off the Northwest and Southeast corneres with A and B so everyone has sort of an idea where to stand.
MT grabs Suprana and Garuda, OT taks Chirada and Spiny. (note provoke is best used on the spiny. what i do is Shield Lob/Tomahawk Chirada then provoke+shield lob spiny, that usually keeps spiny on me and then i can start to combo chirada to keep her on me as well.)
After Chirada is dead OT will provoke Suprana and MT will provoke spiny. When doing this wait for the whirlwinds to blow hard, then run a bit into them, and provoke, and run back. this will take a bit of practice to get used to so prepare for some whiplash :D
Kill suprana, and kill spiny when garuda jumps.

Then it repeats Center Phase followed by Fun Phase.

It really is an easy fight. all you need to do is remember to swap and not let stuff get away from you.

ive noticed alot of groups have specifically asked me as the OT to not pull Suparna off to the NW after the initial sister drop. I was confused by this at first, but it looks like groups now tend to prefer to AOE Garuda and Suparna before her first jump..... they still expect the OT to aggro Suparna, but not to drag her to the side...

Been in 3 of the last 4 groups that expected this.... so yea, I guess thats new

So putting them back to back?

Unicorn, just make sure you talk to your party, for stuff like EXs, make sure everyone is on the same page.

Also, people dotting spiny smh.

Which reminds me that i really need to beat titan...

Honestly, this is the "tank fight" of the three 2.1 Primal fights. Most of the time, this fight goes south because the tanks lack synergy. Either the spiny is getting ignored, or Suparna isn't getting pulled off the MT after Chirada dies (in twisters). This isn't a huge deal with a good MT, but if there are melee in the group, it's hard for them to contribute to Suparna's death due to not being able to predict wicked wheel properly. So, the melee end up standing back and Suparna doesn't die causing double Mistrel Shriek.

As long as the two tanks know what they're doing, this fight is not bad at all. if one of them messes up, then the group can wipe very quickly.


EDIT: Fixed the "2.2" thing. Thanks Vactus!

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Originally Posted by Versiroth

Honestly, this is the "tank fight" of the three 2.2 Primal fights. Most of the time, this fight goes south because the tanks lack synergy. Either the spiney is getting ignored, or Suparna isn't getting pulled off the MT after Chirada dies (in twisters). This isn't a huge deal with a good MT, but if there are melee in the group, it's hard for them to contribute to Suparna's death due to nor being able to predict wicked wheel properly. So, the melee end up standing back and Suparna doesn't die causing double Mistrel Shriek.

As long as the two tanks know what they're doing, this fight is not bad at all. if one of them messes up, then the group can wipe very quickly.

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2.1 Primals, not 2.2. However, the rest of this guys post is 100% correct.

Having the MT tank Garuda and a sister and then expecting the OT to be able to Provoke off is a really boneheaded strategy and causes a lot of wipes regardless of skill because you're making the phase a lot more dangerous for no reason. What often happens is OT is forced to either ignore Suparna entirely or ignore Spiny, because Provoke has a cooldown that the vast majority of people neglect to factor in. A safer strategy all around is what is known as the triangle strategy. Simply put, after the party splits for tornadoes and the sisters spawn, MT takes Garuda, OT takes Suparna, the entire DPS/Healer pile takes Chirada. Chirada doesn't know Wicked Wheel and hits for comparatively less damage, meaning its very safe for a DPS to tank her for the short amount of time she's alive. This also means neither tank has to use provoke for anything but Spiny, lowering the chance of something bad happening there. This strategy is easier the more ranged you have but melee can use gap closers and/or ride the central tornado for the ~1.6k it does to get around with little fuss. This means no one eats double Wheel ever, it doesn't matter where the Spiny starts because both tanks will always have Provoke ready in a phase where it only needs to be used once, and its overall a much smoother method that won't cause unlucky wipes because you're demanding your OT perform physically impossible actions.

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Originally Posted by subteraneanbird

snip

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Easier if people do it right, absolutely. Sadly, I've had less success with this method than with the standard NA method. Expecting a DF group to reliably pull off the triangle is terrible, but it's also why I only do this fight with my FC anymore or to assist in a carry for an LS.

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Originally Posted by subteraneanbird

What often happens is OT is forced to either ignore Suparna entirely or ignore Spiny, because Provoke has a cooldown that the vast majority of people neglect to factor in.

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It's not that we neglect to factor in, it's already factored in but not often mentioned. If you provoke Spiny right at the beginning of tornado phase, Provoke will come back up around time Chirada is dead, depending on DPS. MT can provoke Spiny at 2 stacks on OT. What this method allows is guaranteeing that at the start of eye or tornado phase, the OT does not have stack. They can then proceed to provoke Spiny and pull away from the group to have the feathers AOE down, more time DPSing Garuda. Another benefit is that no matter if it's eye phase or tornado phase, it's always clear that the OT will get Spiny first, then at 2 stacks, the MT provoke it. It's consistent and easy to do.
Triangle has the drawback that if your DPS on Chirada is not fast enough to where she's dead before Garuda and Suparna switch places either you will have to have the tank swap positions OR you'll get buff stack on the sisters reducing damage you do to Chirada.

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Originally Posted by SkyHighDN

ive noticed alot of groups have specifically asked me as the OT to not pull Suparna off to the NW after the initial sister drop. I was confused by this at first, but it looks like groups now tend to prefer to AOE Garuda and Suparna before her first jump..... they still expect the OT to aggro Suparna, but not to drag her to the side...

Been in 3 of the last 4 groups that expected this.... so yea, I guess thats new

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This confuses me. Garuda gets a double stoneskin from Suparna, so what's the point of AoE both of them together? Or am I missing something?

Anyway, how my group does this is I pull Garuda and Suparna as MT, the OT pulls Chirada, the Spiney goes to whoever it goes to. We bring one melee along to LB Suparna as soon as she drops, then that melee switches to Chirada. The ranged finish off Suparna, sometimes before I eat a double WW, then switch to Chirada who is usually @ 75-80% health by then. For us, this accomplishes a few things: 1) Garuda's double stoneskin isn't a big factor. It's more damage on Garuda. 2) It greatly reduces the threat of double WW or even a 2nd double WW if dps is slow. 3) We never have to worry about the Garuda/Suparna jump and subsequent windburn. This also helps get more dps on both Garuda and Suparna. 4) We have no need for any Spiney/Sister swaps between tanks. All that is required is one provoke to get the Spiney off whoever it's on initially (If it's on the MT, the OT takes it. Otherwise, the MT will take it after Garuda's slipstream. Whenever the next person gets 2 stacks, Garuda will do another Slipstream shortly and jump to initiate the phase shift, so the Spiney dies-no need for another swap).

Sometimes we can clear in the second vortex phase, but we almost always clear it at least during the third center plume phase (unless we derp up with the spiney shield).

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Easier if people do it right, absolutely. Sadly, I've had less success with this method than with the standard NA method. Expecting a DF group to reliably pull off the triangle is terrible, but it's also why I only do this fight with my FC anymore or to assist in a carry for an LS.

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This varies based on server group. With the heavy JP playbase on my server, it's basically 3 way all day every day. Just an all round cleaner strategy, Mr Happy has a lot to answer for.

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Originally Posted by Coth_X

So putting them back to back?

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__________________
/.....A............................\
|....................................|
|....................................|
|.....B.............................|
|..........................C........|
\____________________/


Set up to A-B-C method. More that OT was taking Chirada to C, her back toward A-B, he kept sitting in slipstream. Every now and then he'd end up turning her to face A, depending on how close he was to A, where MT held Garuda and Suparna and Chirada would slipstream several people. We could get Chirada down pretty easy most of the time though. As soon as Chirada died, OT would go after Suparna but never took hate away from MT and somehow Garuda + Suparna would be facing the party at B and slipstream everyone. At times we would get to the center phase and that's when everything just started to fall apart. The timing on killing the spiny was usually too late.

Here's how my FC did 5 nado phase, been awhile since I did gar ex so ive sort of forgotten the initial parts of the fight.

I get chriada and drag SE and mt get sup and gar and goes NW, we let the spiny go after whoever, usually the mt would go ahead and pick it up if he could. After chirada went down, I would voke spiny off, usually mt, and they would dps down sup next to garuda, and then i would dps down spiny to 25%, then when gar jumps, we wait a sec or 2, and then down spiny.

Dodging slipstream isn't hard, so that tank just needs to run behind her when he sees the cast bar. I think as war i usually used one cd, and a couple of IBs before chirada went down.

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Originally Posted by A_Magical_Unicorn_Rider

__________________
/.....A............................\
|....................................|
|....................................|
|.....B.............................|
|..........................C........|
\____________________/


Set up to A-B-C method. More that OT was taking Chirada to C, her back toward A-B, he kept sitting in slipstream. Every now and then he'd end up turning her to face A, depending on how close he was to A, where MT held Garuda and Suparna and Chirada would slipstream several people. We could get Chirada down pretty easy most of the time though. As soon as Chirada died, OT would go after Suparna but never took hate away from MT and somehow Garuda + Suparna would be facing the party at B and slipstream everyone. At times we would get to the center phase and that's when everything just started to fall apart. The timing on killing the spiny was usually too late.

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Wait, was this circle phase? It sounds like, a miscommunication for dps, dps should all focus the same sister at the same time. It should be chirada first because she has the green line iirc.

Nados phase. DRG and I took out Chirada with OT at C, MT held Garuda and Suparna at A. Healers/ranged were SUPPOSED to be at B, but instead stacked up with MT at A.

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Originally Posted by A_Magical_Unicorn_Rider

Nados phase. DRG and I took out Chirada with OT at C, MT held Garuda and Suparna at A. Healers/ranged were SUPPOSED to be at B, but instead stacked up with MT at A.

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SMH yeah that's probably why so much dmg happened. Were most of them new?

Try to get the party to use waymarkers next time if they weren't being used. Also, for some reason, I've been in some parties where I'd use waymarks, and then some asshole would turn them off cause

"they weren't needed"

(._.)

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Originally Posted by Coth_X

SMH yeah that's probably why so much dmg happened. Were most of them new?

Try to get the party to use waymarkers next time if they weren't being used. Also, for some reason, I've been in some parties where I'd use waymarks, and then some asshole would turn them off cause

"they weren't needed"

(._.)

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The A-B-C were waymarks. I was the only one that spoke up about being new to the fight.

The tanks did at least swap the spiny from what I could remember. The only problem with spiny was that it usually died too late.

Did you guys get your kill, or did anyone leave after a wipe if there was one?

Wiped about 3 times; healer left after

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Originally Posted by SkyHighDN

it looks like groups now tend to prefer to AOE Garuda and Suparna before her first jump..... they still expect the OT to aggro Suparna, but not to drag her to the side...

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This is pretty useless because Garuda doesn't take any damage while the sisters are up and linked to her.

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Originally Posted by A_Magical_Unicorn_Rider

Wiped about 3 times; healer left after

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Ouch.

I know my group didn't aoe both of them, the melee's would just cross over and the ranged would switch focus.

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Originally Posted by Pooky_Pasha

2) It greatly reduces the threat of double WW or even a 2nd double WW if dps is slow.

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I use my Foresight + Thrill of Battle macro after Superna uses Friction - usually a good indication that Double Wicked Wheel is about to be used. Timing Inner Beast perfectly also helps.

If I'm OT, I pull Chirada with Overpower or Skull Sunder/Butcher's Block as you can have it built up for when Chirada + Superna arrive after Feather Rain; if I'm OT, I pull aggro from Superna using SS/BB. Theres no need to use Provoke on the Sisters once they first appear.

Spiney applying its debuff on a non-tank is acceptable, so long as MT pulls it after 2 stacks. I prefer it that the OT or non-MT members, pull Spiney at the start so that the MT can pull it later using Provoke while the OT uses his Provoke on Superna to prevent Double Wicked Wheel on right target again - especially helpful when you have melee dps.

Hope this helps OP.

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Originally Posted by Sky_Of_Smiles

I use my Foresight + Thrill of Battle macro after Superna uses Friction - usually a good indication that Double Wicked Wheel is about to be used. Timing Inner Beast perfectly also helps.

If I'm OT, I pull Chirada with Overpower or Skull Sunder/Butcher's Block as you can have it built up for when Chirada + Superna arrive after Feather Rain; if I'm OT, I pull aggro from Superna using SS/BB. Theres no need to use Provoke on the Sisters once they first appear.

Spiney applying its debuff on a non-tank is acceptable, so long as MT pulls it after 2 stacks. I prefer it that the OT or non-MT members, pull Spiney at the start so that the MT can pull it later using Provoke while the OT uses his Provoke on Superna to prevent Double Wicked Wheel on right target again - especially helpful when you have melee dps.

Hope this helps OP.

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It is food for though. As Monk, it's what I tended to do, knowing the tanks I rolled with would have to use Provoke at some point.


On another note: I finally tried tanking this a couple days ago. Apparently my PS3 can't handle Garuda. First time she jumped, she completely disappeared off my screen as a target, yet still remained on the enemies list. What was worse about this is the parties decided to make ME the MT. ¬_¬

Frankly, I'd feel a lot more comfortable OTing this instance because of said problem. I know that when sisters phase begins, Garuda returns on my screen. But if I were MTing, would it be easier to just aggro Suparna when she appears? I feel like I'd have full hate on Garuda and then I'd just have to focus on Suparna when she appears. My only problem is figuring out when either of them are readying Slipstream at the same time. Because I know when I pull Sup, she'll react on a whole different timer than Garuda since Garuda has a small invinc moment before coming after MT, putting both of their timings off from each other.

Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by A_Magical_Unicorn_Rider

Frankly, I'd feel a lot more comfortable OTing this instance because of said problem. I know that when sisters phase begins, Garuda returns on my screen. But if I were MTing, would it be easier to just aggro Suparna when she appears? I feel like I'd have full hate on Garuda and then I'd just have to focus on Suparna when she appears. My only problem is figuring out when either of them are readying Slipstream at the same time. Because I know when I pull Sup, she'll react on a whole different timer than Garuda since Garuda has a small invinc moment before coming after MT, putting both of their timings off from each other.

Thoughts?

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as WAR i can just overpower suparna or chirada on pop and tomahawk to tank spot, cause u have hate on garuda, once u get set overpower both garuda/suparna unles just ot, start your combo
as PLD same with 1-2 flash's pm pop, shield lob to spot, flash if garuda/suparna